BB - I say do your art your way - with or without credits - with or without words. Don't ever lose the joy of creating because of the BS. You made some excellent points. You care, are involved, and want to see things improve.. BTW - your image and story are very cool ... I mean 'hot'! :o) LJ is commenting on it as I write this. CC

"I hope that this helps a bit, and will be glad to clarify my reasoning further. Carolly" Carolly This type of response is what may be 'triggering' the type of replays you are seeing in this thread. Members are asking here for Renderosity policy, not your personal reasoning or rhetoric. Renderosity has established the 'Galleries' based on work created by specific commercial software, POSER, VUE, XFROG, ZBRUSH,3DS ... not a good or bad issue ... it's just the way it is. It is logical, useful organization of images and it makes good sense. Why? Because these are not fine ART galleries ... they are digital art galeries organized by the type of commercial software used to produce the ART within. Why? Because, it gives the artists who use these products a place to communicate ... or bond if you will as in the commercial term BONDWARE. Why? So they can share and learn how to use the software and related products they have purchased and so they can find out what new 3rd party products are available for use with their 'Renderware' of choice. 3D digital art is a highly collaborative medium and that's what the galleries are all about .... collaboration. There is no other kind of art in the history of the world that enables the expression of creativity of individuals in such an empowering way. Every artist begins collaborating with the talanted artists and programmers that create the software they are working with in the first place. Then they collaborate with one amazing 3rd party product after another as they choose their characters, lights, backgrounds, props, poses, skys, seas, and yes even their moon and suns. Many of these 3rd party products take months of time to create and are true labors of love. Many are also highly innovative, constantly pushing the envelope. When the adverts hit, most merchants and product developers are exhausted just getting their products into a final saleable form. For the most part, little ART has actually been created using them. If merchants are fortunate enough to be associated with a few great beta testers or render artists, I for one want to see their work and know how it was done. This is what the Galleries are all about ... shareing work ... artistic and commerical. That is why the eyeballs come ... hungry and ready to see, learn, buy and enjoy. It simply makes no sense to post ART for arts sake in a RENDEROSITY gallery does it? If it's 2D we want to know what software they used. If it's photography, we what to know what digital camera right? Where else can we find that out? My wife and I started with Renderosity a year and a half ago and had never used POSER before. Thanks to the POSER galleries, we've been able to learn the who, what, when, where, and why of creating stunning art. We've been able to interact with some of the finest artists and most prolific merchants in the world and value every single word they have to say about their work, their products and what works and what doesn't. We've gleaned the vast majority of our knowledge from the POSER gallery. Actually, the R'osity POSER Gallery is where we, and thousands of others, have learned how to put smiles on our lips, gold on our hearts, and TEARS on our cheeks! lj heart

Carolly, I appreciate the time you took to clarify your decision making process,and I understand it is a difficult choice. However it still seems very subject to your particular pov,likes and dislikes, etc. Particularly Point 6. There are many fine works of art that use a simple background and show only one thing. This could be a portrait, or a body, or really anything the artist chooses to focus the art on. To say this type of presentation is an ad instead of art really seems very bias.You know another moderator could have a different pov, and this creates impossible standards to follow. We personally have never asked any of our beta testers or anyone else we give our products to, to rave about it, or say anything special. That is the total choice of the artist doing the work. And we're just thrilled that they took the time to create an image using our product, mostly because it is so wonderful to view another artist's interpretation. In addition, people who purchase our products and create art images also say nice things about our products. Many are also merchants. I would hate to have their art moved to the PSG simply because they said nice things. Carol

Please be a 'considerate' moderator and answer the relevant questions that others, including us, have asked. Carol

Huh? How about a human answer? Now I'm even more confused. Are you calling artist/merchants who list the products they use to create their images 'hard-boiled marketers'? Are they 'ham-handed, because they let people know what it is? This is hardly comparable to product placement. These ARE the products we use to create this art. And these are the images that SELL the products. Experienced marketing professionals know that it is much better to SHOW someone than to tell them. The MP shows the product. The gallery shows the product in action. That is always much more effective. It seems to me this is exactly what people what to know, because unless I'm really confused, this is a 3d site selling 3d products to people who are interested in buying and creating 3d images. Are you implying by the above 'quotes' that listing names of products under an art image will ultimately turn buyers off? Then why do you put the links in there that take them directly to the marketplace?. What is the purpose of product credits. Why do you advise us in the gallery info to list merchants and their products. Why should we exclude our own? Sorry, but your logic is not connecting on any reasonable marketing level with me. Or, what's going on in the Renderosity community. Renderosity sends all of us countless coupons, newsletters, and advertisements to encourage us to purchase more. Some might object to this but we don't, because we want to know what is on sale, and what's new, and what we are going to buy next. Because we have received the ads, the offers, and been stimulated by gallery images using products. In the year and a half we've been on Renderosity we've purchased thousands of dollars of products. As merchants, we've also made thousands of dollars for Renderosity. How about less 'quotes' and more real answers? Like how come people who aren't merchants have been put into the PSGallery? And all the other relevant questions that have been posted to this thread. Carol

Right on, sinamin2001! We are not just merchants, we are also artists. Of course we are going to take pleasure and pride in creating art with our own products! And informing people what we used. What the heck is wrong with that? More art gets viewed. More products get sold. Everyone wins. No politics. Just good business.

CC

Message edited on: 08/12/2004 16:26

IMHO, the art galleries are the life's blood of Renderosity. Showing people, and potential customers, what can be done with products, sells product. The more people who see the art, the more chance of selling the product used to create the art. It doesn't seem like a good plan to kick the asrtists who are working very hard on their art, by forcing their images into the Showcase Gallery. . And artists/merchants are hardly just promoting their own stuff. They are promoting all the stuff they use. And are some of the most talented and prolific artists on Renderosity. Carol

It just seemed to us that many of the images you are calling blatant ads smell a lot more like art, especially many that are now in the Hot 20. In fact, by pulling all these images from the Poser Gallery, now the Hot 20 if filling up with art images instead of Product Promo Images, which seems to kind of defeat the purpose of this. We thought what determined where an image should go was the image itself. If the image contained advertising copy, then it belonged in the Product Showcase Gallery. We didn't realize that the accompanying text had such a huge bearing on where it should go or if it should be considered an ad or art. Another point: Yes, we are merchants, but we are also artists. And we use many of our own products, as well as other merchants products, to create our art. Isn't that what this is all about? Showing and telling people what we used to create the work? In essence,every piece of art that uses a product is a promotion for that product. Are you saying that if we use 5 of our products to do a piece of art - it should go into the Product Showcase Gallery? Are you also saying that if someone gives us their product as a gift, and if we do an art image using this product and thank them in the text, that it should go into the Product Showcase Gallery? Are you saying that if we post an image saying a particular product is coming, that that is also considered an ad and not art. Are you saying that any image that lists product credits in the text should go into the Product Showcase Gallery? Are you saying we should post images only, with no text or mention of what products we used? We are really confused about this now. You say: "There is a message on the Gallery Header in red type asking merchants not to post their sales material in the Poser Forum. It doesn't beg, plead, order, or wheedle. It asks. But if the merchant won't post an image in the right forum, we have to move it." Yes, we have seen the message in red type. But we can't for the life of us figure out why jwdell's image (who isn't a merchant) is now in the Product Showcase Gallery, and even in the HOT 20. Carol

Wow, these look fantastic! Great work. You are a very talented modeler! :o) CC

Congrats to all the winners. We enjoyed participating and viewing all the super entries. Thanks for all your efforts on this one. :o) Carol & LJ

I was getting the message when I tried to go from an ebot email to Rosity.

But it seems to be cleared up now. CC

romanceworks

Wow = what a super bonus. :o) CC

This is very very sad news. A huge and heartbreaking loss. Our sincere condolences to those closest to Billy. Carol & LJ