Mosca said "Wait--here's another idea: maybe we should just keep having polls until Legume DOESN'T win. Now THAT would be fair!"

So...it's all about Legume after all!

Mosca, on the one hand you keep saying the issue is the poll being pulled removing the vote from the members...yet...at the same time you say it was pulled to keep Legume from winning! If you think the PTB's are expected to be consistent shouldn't you be too? There isn't a single bit of irony in the unofficial poll declaring Legume the winner, unless the irony is that it wasn't posted anywhere except the Poser Forum...making it as unfair as the official poll that was pulled.

You are right Kendra, nothing will appease everyone, but if conern was really Fairness of the poll in the first place, in the interests of Fairness it can't be called done without giving all the members a chance to have a say. There are a lot of members that don't go to the Poser Forum, that didn't get a chance to unofficially vote. If the controversy is truly about fairness, let's be truly fair...even unoffically.

yep, I gotta agree with you on that one dailyn! It is a sad affair...with no winners no matter what. I understand the error that was made by Tammymc and appreciate her comming forward to admit to it and apologize...hey sh_t happens, unfortunately when it happens here too many people like to add to the pile.

Since the unoffical poll was only posted in the Poser Forum, I can't agree that The People have spoken...The Poser People may have spoken, but how about the Bryce People, the Lightwave People, the 2D People, The Vue People, and all the rest of the people that are members. In Fairness the unoffical poll should have been posted in every artist forum!

I discovered the trick of making bum maps for Poser 4 using Photoshop about 2 years ago. Click the link to read the original discussion and see the examples. It's interesting to note that I was using a P100 Win95 PC and black DID indent.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=224045

Yep, complete instructions are in the manual...you know that little book that came in the package with Poser when you bought it. It's real easy to follow, it even has examples and a tutorial you can follow to teach you the basics. You might try reading it...

I'm sure the know by now Jeff...I was just wondering if Tim has approached them and to discuss this violation and it's implications...and to get assurances from them as to what they intend to do to prevent their Admin's from doing this again. I guess I feel like they out to be posting some sort of statement here about this incident with an explanation and assurances from them that they have removed this "Wagner" person from their staff and are co-operating with Tim in dealing with this.

Has Renderotica been notified...and if so, what do they intend to do to prevent future hacking of this site by their personel? Are measures being taken to discourage Admins from Renderotica or any other site from such illegal activities in the future?

Ragingwolf, you and anyone else is welcome to post CONSTRUCTIVE comments in this thread. You are also welcome to contribute experiences with merchandise purchased from here, as long as you provide facts to back up your experiences. We are looking for FACTS not opinions...opinions and comments without FACTS to substantiate them are not credible. Regardless of how highly you view your ability to determine what is quality and what is not, your subjective standards carry no weight here. So, I ask you once again: Which specific 5 items was your friend not able to install? When did your friend purchase those items? Did your friend contact the sellers or the store moderators regarding the problems? What didn't work and what kind of problem did he have installing them? It would certainly be helpful to the community if you provided this information so we could investigate.

I agree with that bear, not all of the merchandise submitted is for Poser.

I agree somewhat bear, but the site is already talking about setting up a member review system which would rate the merchandise. What I have in mind is more an "authentication" and "assurance" control group. A group of people that would test each product to make sure it contains all the files required for use, installs properly, works the way it's supposed to, doesn't "crash" Poser, renders without flaws or blemishes, etc. Ratings could be used to indicate the result of some tests. For example, the result of a "Poser load test" could have a rating of 1, 2, or 3: 1 - Loads with no problems or errors. 2 - Partial load. Calls for texture that can't be located. 3 - Does not load. Causes C Exception error Similar ratings could be done for results of texture mapping tests, joint movements, posing, scalability, etc. Props, textures, and morphs would have similar tests and a rated result. We would also provide feedback to the site or the submittor in the form of comments, make recommendations to improve performance, note any obvious or potential defects, etc. It might also be possible...if requested...to do a "subjective quality" review on an item, that is, rate products on aesthetic appeal, price point, ease of use, and any number of other issues. I don't really know if an overall quality review by 4 or 5 people in a group would really be fair, so I'm not too sure about the feasability of that. Testing results, could result in a "seal of approval" that carries a unique ID number specifically for that product, and a Rating of HQ - HiQuality, Q - Quality, anything less gets no "seal". The rating would reflect the results of testing; pass all the tests with flying colors get an HQ, average results get a Q, Low scores get no seal. That's just some thoughts I've been kicking around in my head. If there's enough interest in this maybe we ought to start a seperate thread about this topic.

The intent of this post was NOT to start a name-calling contest, a flame war, or to trade insults. I started this thread for 2 reasons. The First was to counter what, in my opinion, was a deliberate attempt to drain sales from here to line the pockets of others. The second was to open discussion about the quality of merchandise available here and find out if it was good or bad. I have not seen any facts to substantiate Jack's and Diane's comments and I don't expect that any facts about any specific merchandise that is sub-standard, will ever appear. Look, the fact is that whether or not the store has merchandise that is quintessentially unique or not is really a mute point. Whether the store is being flooded with merchandise that is on par with Free Stuff is irrelevant. If someone takes the time to make a product and they want to try to make a buck with it...what's the problem? Would Diane's and Jack's opinion of those very same items change if those items were offered to their store and all the proceeds from their sales given to them? You bet, your sweet ass they would!!!!! There are few stores in either the real world or the virtual world that doesn't have a variety of merchandise that ranges from the "ok" to the "exquisite". Why should our store be "elitist" and provide a showroom only for the "Masters"? Cream rises to the top, as the saying goes...and here the products that fill peoples needs, install properly, and operate properly are the products that will sell. The others will "fall by the wayside". What more could anyone ask for? All I ask, when see information about a product is that is either positive or negative, is that I get FACTS, not rumors, innuendos, or generalizations. Is that too much to expect from people that claim to be professionals and business persons? Again...I offer my services as a tester or even a product reviewer if Tim needs people to do that. In fact, I would even be willing to set up an independent testing group comprised of 4 or 5 dedicated people with modeling, texturing, posing, and animation experience if that would help.

Ragingwolf...sorry to hear that your friend had some bad experiences with merchandise here. When did your friend purchase those items? Did your friend contact the sellers or the store moderators? What didn't work and what kind of problems was he having installing them? Which 5 items was it that your friend was not able to install? It would certainly be helpful to the community if you provided this information so we could investigate. Again, just because you feel something isn't worth paying the price for, doesn't mean it isn't worth the price.