::blinks mulled wine out of her eyes and gives TrekkieGrrl a "hey-dangit-I-dressed-up-for-this-side-show-look" and sighs:: There goes those VELVET textures I loved so much....sheesh..now I gotta re-texture my outfit...yanno how LONG this hairstyle took to RENDER? Anyone got any Poser clogs? Or a copy of DAZ Studio for that matter?

::blinks mulled wine out of her eyes and gives TrekkieGrrl a "hey-dangit-I-dressed-up-for-this-side-show-look" and sighs:: There goes those VELVET textures I loved so much....sheesh..now I gotta re-texture my outfit...yanno how LONG this hairstyle took to RENDER? Anyone got any Poser clogs? Or a copy of DAZ Studio for that matter?

::settles down to watch, mulled wine in hand::

erm...why do I suddenly feel like one of those fish in the tank in the Monty Python movie...::chuckle:: thanks guys...thought I might get my hand slapped for going so totally off topic...but I feel downright welcome now..lol I think you have a good point there mac about the flashes..you nailed it about the flashes coming more often when you do things more often. One other thing that came to me about this discussion is that when using Poser..ofthem what I start out with is NOT what I end up with. Because it gives you the ability to move around the entire little "world" you create instead of just drawing out a flat plane...you can then take a look at several snap shots of that world and see which one suits you best, or possibly changes the entire feeling of the finished piece. That sort of makes Poser a "journey", more than a medium. Not exactly something you can do with traditional drawing or painting without having to start completely over I suppose. But the same would apply to photography in a sense. I think the 3d aspect of both Poser and photography gives the "artist" more of an interactive tool with which to complete the total effect, sometimes with surprising and totally different results. Anyone else's thoughts? oh..PS...once she saw the first one, she had me do about 5 more...some of which involved actually modifying existing traditional paintings done by another artist because they didn't exactly fit the need she had. The other artists ended up loving what I did too..which I was leary about. Which I guess nails the point I made about Poser being more flexible than traditional media. The artist couldn't change it without redoing the whole thing...I changed it in a matter of an hour or 2, with a combo of photoshop and poser. Yet all 3 fused together to make the final image.

hhhmmm...and back on topic... I got paid for my very first poser render which was for a set of tarot cards...I thought the woman was nuts...but she paid me...! So...I guess I did get INTO it for commercial reasons...and stayed to enjoy the art...::sheesh zai..shut up aleady::

wellll....long weekend and I need to wind down but thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.. first off...no offense to Silke...with whom I actually agree quite a lot, but the thing that struck me was that it was mentioned that "The Eye" cannot be taught...not just by her, but as a common theme in this thread. In my experience as an art director ...I "teach" the eye all the time. I see artists come on board all the time (we're talking commmercial advertising here...). They start out with everything out of balance to a trained artist's eye. For example...everything is the same size, same font, all centered and the lead photo is stuck in the middle. BUT...they DID manage to get it all on the page...so they are happy! Then I come along as art director and say..."OMG...no nonononono!" And then begin to educate them on say... Depth: Use more than one weight of font...use (gasp) TWO fonts! Balance: Use colors for balance...use left offset by right... use heavy on one side and nothing on the other to create a "statement" , use ANYTHING but "all-the-words-are-on-the-page-so-I'm-done-ain't-that-amazing!"...etc....do SOMETHING! New artists are like scared bunnies...afraid they will do what someone else thinks is wrong, just happy to have it all there, and when they DO get it all there, they think its done. Now take those same artists 3 years down the line, when they have had me or someone else drilling into them balance, depth, etc....pushing them to dig within themselves for their own creative ideas. They have LEARNED "The Eye", by trial of fire. If they don't get it...they lose their job pretty quick! So..."the Eye" CAN be taught, perhaps not to some people's thinking as a "traditional" artist aka Monet, Dali, and the like...but it CAN be taught. (I know because once I nail them on it enough times, they don't bring kindergarten layouts to me anymore!...lol) That process...constructive criticism... hopefully will bring out in them the desire to continue to push themselves. At which point they become "true artists", whichever medium they choose (advertising, painting, whathave you.). They then have a "drive" to create...conceptualize...and most of all TRUST..their eye. And THEY will be the ones to now teach the next generation of newbies, much like the community here. Yes, people are "born" with natural talent....and some are better than others...but it can be taught. The second thing that struck me as I read the posts was that somehow it seemed to become a discussion of "hobby art" isn't "real art"..aka the title of this thread. Not that this is a "new" arguement, which I won't try to re-argue here. What struck me was that I thought that all these people here in the community coming together to make pictures for each other and share them and learn and be delighted, annoyed, amazed, or moved in some way by what EVERYONE puts out for each other to see...is the very DEFINITION of art in the first place! So whether its for commercial or personal..it's still art. Whether its computer generated or hand done..its still art, as others have said. For the record...I DO get paid for some of my Poser art. Did I get addicted to it? Yes. Do I do it to please myself AND others AND get paid once in a while..YES! Would I give it up because I didn't get paid for it? No way. That to me...makes me (and a lot of others) a "true artist". I do it because I can't NOT do it....no matter what anyone else thinks.. ::hops off soap box and hopes they don't throw tomatoes since this is the holiday dress and all:: zai..

Danke Danke! That worked perfectly dialyn!

Hi Eric... A thought for the new site...since I do sites as a living etc...have you checked to see if one of your forms has been hijacked? I would think the admins who looked into it should have looked, but usually they just don't care. ::lives with geek programmer as a hubby...so I live and breathe this stuff:: We had a problem with that a while ago since a few of our older sites were using formmail.cgi for quotes, etc. We changed over to a secure php replacement which has solved the problem. Also, you might think about making people contact you via form only until you give out the addy to them, which can be protected just like the above...i.e. they click on contact and then are taken to a form to fill in to send the mail in the browser instead of typing in a mail addy or cutting and pasting. That would keep the addy off the page completely and it won't be available even in source code since its sort of encrypted in the php code that runs the form. Problem is with this stuff is that although it might be a bot..I'm sure y ou know it can just as easily be gathered from any other source....random messages from your domain name could well be that your base addy got picked up from a webring...linkfarm...someone else's computer via a virus...or even harvested from a somewhere like a domain registrar itself. One last thing I would suggest it using a separate email on your contact forms for your domain registration...something not connected to your business..a yahoo account...earthlink account..etc. I am guilty of NOT doing this...but I SHOULD! :) If I had the time invested in this that you have I would wait it out and give notice to your visitors...and I wouldn't toss my meta's either...how else are you going to get anywhere in some search engines? Give it time to die out and don't shoot yourself in the foot too quickly and let some script kiddy take away what you've worked hard for. If you want to send a few mails my way and let the "uber geek" have a look you're welcome to do so...he might even take a peek under the hood of the server if you want him to... all the best.. zai..ps..thanks again for all the help with the contest entry...I know I was a pain!

Attached Link: http://www.poserpros.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10856

Also interesting: http://www.poserpros.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16342 http://www.fignations.com/jelisa/tutorials/drapery1.html

HA! My painting skills good....NOW you've got to be kidding..lol Actually Ive been doing Photoshop since it came out years ago but always in a professional setting like ads, retouching, dropping out backgorunds, replacing skies, product photos, etc, mostly for the automotive industry. I am just NOW teaching my self to learn to "paint" so to speak, using some tutorials I found here. I was given a wacom tablet by a friend over the weeked so I'm going to give that a try as well. One idea I had was to do some clothes brushes, sort of like the "hair" brushes by different people, mostly the Heavenly Hair which I just got. Take a look at those to see what I mean. Of course I'd have to make a decent image first!

Hi All... I've got a "flaming June" pose half done which I will work on as soon as I can. I did try the layers thing I mentioned on another figure in photoshop starting with a nude throw away image I had saved somewhere. It's SORT of working...I did it based on the overlay and screen methods shown in a hair tutorial I had, wondering if that might work. I had to block out the main shape of the skirt though and then use the top half as a transparent section to pick up the body details. I had to block off the bottom because of course the grass was showing though. Also, when you do this you have to take off body details you don't want seen through the fabric like nipples and belly buttons, etc. I don't think I like where it's going but its a try.. I was already planning on doing Sleeping Beauty sometime...I have the poster up in the house..lol.. I was going to try the versa bench and throws on that for a start. Love the belt and necklace on the dress above btw... zai

original image attached...note, this is NOT my original painting...it is a beautiful image I was asked to do some postwork on by the artist Elizabeth Kyle from Australia. You can see it only too one or 2 tries at layers and bingo..instant clothes...

heya pazu... a thought when we get a chance...maybe we could send an agreed upon practice image back and forth to see how each of us is fairing and the techniques we are using... one trick I used recently which was SO simple I came across it by accident was when I had to put a dress on a figure that was unclothed. I was thinking...OMG..Ive never painted clothes before..how the h#$ll am I gonna do that. Weirdly enough, I started out painting the edges on another layer in photoshop assuming I would have to outline the area I wanted cloth in, then brush in complicated folds and shadows and the like..but I didn't have to! I just did the layer as an overlay on the nude figure...filled it and then set the opacity to very low and the body itself did all the work. What I thought was going to take me hours took me all of 20 minutes....! I'm going to try it on other figures, just havent had time yet. I don't think it will do all the great folds we would like to achieve, but it may give a very quick starting point fo r the rest....

Have you tried using the selective color options? They are quite a bit more subtle than variations or levels. Also they let you adjust just reds or yellows or neutrals etc, far better than an overall adjustment. Not sure what level Photoshop you are at, but that's what I would do, even as far as isolating specific parts for individual adjustments...(as if I have TIME right now....someone please tell my publisher to send the magazine to PRINT already! I'm having Poser fits) zai

Hi pazu.... I'll keep an eye out....I'm planning on doing a few reproductions of art like Parrish (actually Waterhouse, etc.) and I've been looking too. I haven't tried doing the cloth in Poser yet as I'm assuming I'm going to have to paint it to get what I really want. I'm using the exercise to FORCE myself to learn the skills. If I find anything good I'll post back. I'm thinking "Flaming June" type flowy is what you mean...or Tadema style? zai