We are reviewing the Ads currently in rotation right now. Banner Ads are ROS (Run of the Site) and can bee seen everywhere a member goes. Therefore we will be tightening down on what we will allow in Banner Ads and Front Page Article thumbs. We want members to be able to view the site in public places, at home with parents, in the work place, etc...without fear of a racy banner ad popping up on them. Banner Ads and Front Page Article thumbs can't have rear ends (Butts) or breasts showing since that is nudity. A rear end with a G string on is considered nudity. Breasts with tape on the nipples is considered nudity. We will be reviewing all banner ads. If you have a Banner Ad in rotation that is to racy for ROS we will remove it from rotation and notify you via E-Mail. You can then upload a replacement Banner Ad. We feel that this will be best for all members and merchants of this site. Thanks for your understanding. Renderosity Staff

thank you!

Very good resolution Spike...Thanks to the Staff for working out an equitable solution.

We realy do care what the members say... No, Realy! We do...

Big hugs to ya Spike! Thanky, Thanky, Thanky, ~Jani :)

Yep, you really do Spike...can't spell worth a damn...but you really do care! :^)

"can't spell worth a damn." /me spells "w-o-r-t-h- -a- -d-a-m-n"

lolololol...you kill me Cheryle! (in a nice way of course) ;^)

know this, If you also ban nudity in the gallery you will lose many members

Davo: The PTB didnt say absolutely no nudity on this site, just in the places where everyone 'by everyone I mean members AND non-members' would be able to view it. like banner ads, and the front page Spike said in another thread that not everyone would be happy with the results, and Im sure there will be flames, but think about it for a moment.. Nobody got 'exactly' what they wanted, but it works out well for the entire community.. There will be bugs and kinks to be worked out over time Im sure, so it's not 'completely' over. After all, thats got to be a big undertaking for alot of people with different views to decide what stays up, and what doesnt I dont think you have to worry about this site 'going nudeless' as it draws alot of people, and revenue.. ~J

Damien: Nudity isnt banned from the galleries, there is a nudity filter in place there. As I stated above, nudity was NOT banned from this entire site, just the banner ads and front page where members, and also non-members could view it.

I don't mind if Renderosity stops offensive banners, but I'd use a "banner nudity" or "banner torture" option to filter them out if they made it easy to do. It would probably be impossible for them to implement such a filter, though, because then clients would just choose not to view any banners at all.

While they're at it, Renderosity could also make some kind of "spell-check" banner option, because I've noticed many banners with typos in them. In those cases, I guess if the merchant is careless with something unimportant like grammar or spelling, then he or she is probably also careless with something important, like bugs in his or her product.

AMEN!

the power to choose whether this garbage gets shoved down your throats and leave those that want to see it get to choose too? Strange, this shoe just doesnt feel right on the other foot now does it Davo? As for this all being my fault, you oughta back up a step or 2..there were many more than just me who wanted 'filters for INDIVIDUALS'..As I stated in an earlier post..NOBODY GOT 'EXACTLY' WHAT THEY WANTED.. We asked for 'FILTERS' we got stricter rules on what could be posted in view of everyone. 99% of my clicks into marketplace here are based on banners alone, those merchants just lost out, So your saying that if you cant see nude ad banners, you just refuse to go into the marketplace?? thats just...N/M * You see, you opened the floodgate to more whiners* We're whiners now? Why? Because we asked for something? "well..sneer.. if you don't like it, you can go somewhere else".. How come I can't tell you the same thing? Ummmm, hello?..We were told this very thing over and again. it'll spill over into all other parts of the site If it does, then that, like this decision.. is up to the PTB.. If this sites owners and staff decided to make this a total nude environment, those of us who prefered something else, would have no 'choice' but to either deal with it, or move on. If nothing had been done in this situation, then we 'who prefer not to see it' would have had to make a 'choice' of either leaving this site, or taking other steps if we chose to remain, in order to not see it. So it IS about choices of a sort. I think this situation was handled nicely, no matter what the outcome. ~Jani

"then tell the PTB to be fair to everybody and implement the filters instead. Will you do that?" You can ask too, in fact i think you just did. Your anger may be justified but it is misdirected. "We asked for 'FILTERS' we got stricter rules on what could be posted in view of everyone."-(jumpstartme2) So you can feel free to ask them yourself. ..."you opened the floodgate to more whiners, ..." well you seem to be doing some of that yourself- again direct your questions to those who can impliment change. "And you didn't get the message?.." Apparently you missed a few messages yourself.

Why is 'sexy' synonymous with 'nudity'?

WAR IS GOOD, NUDITY IS EVIL

Well, I can see endless arguments about borderline cases -- too much cleavage, too-tight bodysuits etc. etc. -- going on ad infinitum now with regard to banners. I'm just glad I model things, not people ;) Mick.

• Now those merchants who rely on their sexy advertising and banners have just lost an advertising method that works best for them and believe you me they ARE gnashing their teeth in the merchant forum.* Im sorry that 'some' of the merchants are upset, but again.. it wasnt my decision. The banner ads just have to cover the nudity if you read the other threads, we were upset over more than just the nudity, but one takes what one can get ~shrug~ Im sure this uneasy thread has been read by an admin or 2 already, so after 15 days of asking for SOMETHING to be done, it was done.. No point in us asking again.. YOU may however ask the PTB for a change in ruling and Im sure there will be a few who will 'jump on the wagon' As for 'And you didnt get the messege?'..As Cheryle said.. you missed a few messeges yourself. ~J

My suggestion, at this point, is to email admin@renderosity.com and state your case regarding the need for filters. I strongly suggest you leave out "bitching", "whining", "moaning", or any other form of complaining and simply point out the benefit of filters to the merchants, the members, and the Marketplace. This is not to say that the need for banner and Marketplace thumb filters should not be discussed in the forums...email just adds a bit more emphasis to the need. Remember, you are more than just a member...you are a customer or a potential customer for the Marketplace also!

and come up with a method for non-members, not logged in to have the filter for nudity active on banners. since you don't have to be logged in to get banners.

Actually, I made a suggestion in the post regarding banners in the Community Ideas Forum that the "cookie" might be used to do that.

only 2 small issues with that in and of itself, 1 then the cookie is getting bigger, which slows the site down, as it has to parse the data in it before anything goes anywhere. 2 some people don't have cookies enabled.

That's the only thing I could think of without them having to change the code on every page that a non-member can access. The pages non-members can access are the same pages that members can access, so unless they build separate non-member pages and add a gateway leading to the member area, the only solution I can think of would be a "cookie". Maybe someone else has an idea.

will you people be happy with just this banner decision? I think the banner decision is fine, although I would prefer an overall filter for nudity that affects the entire site, including banners. Its the larger agenda here I have a problem with, though. Now the puritans have a taste of victory, I'm sure we will see more pressure to get their way in the galleries and MP, (and they DO actively complain about the gallery and MP content, and consistently misportray it as well) the mostly forum-silent, actively art-posting and marketplace buying majority will find a new place to start buying and posting once they feel the squeaky non-Renderosity supportive Puritan wheels got all the grease... I hope Renderosity understands this - the majority of their active members don't support this minority Puritan agenda. And I hope they understand, artistic nudity is not pornography. This banner rule would ironically ban even artworks in the style of such pictures like Botticelli's Birth of Venus from banners, which you can view in yes, any art textbook. The rule is rather silly. I think you need to look at nudity divorced from the sexual content question. Often you can have nudity and not have any sexual connonation at all, and partial clothing does much more to accentuate sexuality than pure nudity does. But big sellers such as Billy-T would have a real problem advertising their lingerie work over the banners. Yet Victoria Secret seems to have no trouble doing the same thing in Elle magazine. Do you see the real world irony here folks?! You can't post artistic pictures of partially clothed or nude children (cherubs, angles, nativity scenes) on a porn site for obvious reasons. Renderotica is not the place to post your baby angel pictures. You should be able to post such innocent work, the stuff of Romanticism, Renaissance and classical art, HERE. This has been consistently my position all through these various controversies. seems to me some people won't be happy until some vendors are completely thrown out of the store for even daring to sell things like genital morphs, too. Seen those threads already, and they are fairly recent. But one loss here and one gain somewhere else. PoserPros finally lightened up on their stance with nudity. Artistic nudity involving babies is now allowed there (such as nativity scenes, cherubs and angels), and fairies can be less clothed than before. They can't have nipples or genitals showing, but you can cover them with leaves and flowers now. I'm very pleased with their decision to lighten their rules in the general interest of art.

"will you people be happy with just this banner decision?" yes "I think the banner decision is fine, although I would prefer an overall filter for nudity that affects the entire site, including banners" That was all I was asking for. "Its the larger agenda here I have a problem with, though. " What larger agenda would that be? I know i have no agenda- but was personally tired of having to apologize for certain banners when coming here. Now the banners are taken care of, i know personally 5 people i am going to recommend to come here for information in the vector and photoshop forums. Before i could not do that because of the reactions i have received in the past about certain ads. "I hope Renderosity understands this - the majority of their active members don't support this minority Puritan agenda." And you know this how? "And I hope they understand, artistic nudity is not pornography." As we hope you understand that nudity for the sake of nudity is not art. " I think you need to look at nudity divorced from the sexual content question. Like the pole dancing Vicky ads? "But big sellers such as Billy-T would have a real problem advertising their lingerie work over the banners. Yet Victoria Secret seems to have no trouble doing the same thing in Elle magazine. Do you see the real world irony here folks?!" Go to the Victoria's secret site- they do not show nipples nor do they show genital hair. "cherubs, angles, nativity scenes) on a porn site for obvious reasons. Renderotica is not the place to post your baby angel pictures. You should be able to post such innocent work, the stuff of Romanticism, Renaissance and classical art, HERE." I have never disagreed with that, but no one here really does that type of art. "seems to me some people won't be happy until some vendors are completely thrown out of the store for even daring to sell things like genital morphs" And those would be used in "...innocent work, the stuff of Romanticism, Renaissance and classical art...," how?

Interesting that people can't seem to look past their nose and see that there is more than just Poser on this site.

I thought the rule was stricter than it should be. Some flesh is necessary. But at least the banners won't be so embarrassing anymore.

*""But big sellers such as Billy-T would have a real problem advertising their lingerie work over the banners. Yet Victoria Secret seems to have no trouble doing the same thing in Elle magazine. Do you see the real world irony here folks?!"

Go to the Victoria's secret site- they do not show nipples nor do they show genital hair."*

We know you're right Cheryle and that there is a way to show a body texture or clothing without a racy pose and hands in near TOS violation but these people can't see any middle ground. They want tacky instead of tasteful beauty and insist the rest of the world come down to their level. They can't see that the only thing affected is a small banner ad. The product can be shown in all it's glory in the marketplace promo images and in the galleries. The galleries in fact, make more sense as a place to market.

I applaud the admins for keeping Renderosity and Renderotica separate.

I wouldn't worry too much about Bijouchat- she just comes into these threads- gets up on her soap box, spews shrill pseudologic, calls people names, then leaves -in effect being even more closed minded and showing a narrower point of view than those she is pontificating and lecturing to.

Well, Cheryle...that may be true, then again bijouchat is not the only merchant that feels that way...she's just one of the few that are openly vocal about it.

bijouchat: I think the banner decision is fine, although I would prefer an overall filter for nudity that affects the entire site, including banners. Its the larger agenda here I have a problem with, though.

Me: A filter was asked for, the site has decided that tighter controls on the banners was a better alternative to a filter so that all merchants had the same opportunity for exposure of their products. The Admins concern was that filters would severely limit the exposure of some merchants. There is no larger agenda here. The majority of people that objected to the banners, objected to the explicit content. The objection was not "nudity" per se, but explicit, tasteless, tacky sexuality used to advertise products.

bijouchat: Now the puritans have a taste of victory...

Me: I think most of us involved in this issue resent being called "puritans", "prigs", "prudes", or any other such characterization. I did not object to the banners, but a sizable number of the members did. Since Renderosity chooses to characterize itself as a "family friendly" site...many banners fell outside the limits required to keep a site "family friendly". I spoke out on the behalf of those members, even though my views are in many ways opposite theirs, because this is a community...and as such, I believe there has to be give and take and respect for the diverse standards of the membership. There is no celebration of victory here...there is merely appreciation for the Admins for recognizing the standards they set were being violated and dealing with it.

bijouchat: This banner rule would ironically ban even artworks in the style of such pictures like Botticelli's Birth of Venus from banners, which you can view in yes, any art textbook.

Me: The banner ruling does not ban artistic works, it bans tacky, tasteless, and explicit advertising copy which is used to lure people to view and purchase the product. It in no way effects what merchants can show in their store images.

bijouchat: Renderotica is not the place to post your baby angel pictures. You should be able to post such innocent work, the stuff of Romanticism, Renaissance and classical art, HERE.

Me: You can pretty much post whatever you want in the Product Showcase Forum and the Product Showcase Gallery within the limits of the TOS, and still showcase your products.

bijouchat: seems to me some people won't be happy until some vendors are completely thrown out of the store for even daring to sell things like genital morphs, too.

Me: Genital morphs and such aren't the problem, they way they are depicted in the banner ads are! Tell us in you Banner that you have genital morphs available, tell us they how easy they are to apply, tell us how many dials available to customize them...but a closeup of a naked man or woman's genitals posed seductively isn't necessary to get us to click that banner.

bijouchat: PoserPros finally lightened up on their stance with nudity. Artistic nudity involving babies is now allowed there (such as nativity scenes, cherubs and angels), and fairies can be less clothed than before. They can't have nipples or genitals showing, but you can cover them with leaves and flowers now.

Me: What has that got to do with banner ads or the banner ad decision here?

As far as it goes, I'm happy with the sites measures to keep the content within reasonable boundaries for a "family friendly" site. The control of content in the banners and the "nudity flag" are reasonable controls that honor the needs of a diverse community. On the other hand, I will not be making any purchases from any merchants that consider limits on nudity and explicit sexuality "prudish", "prigish", or "puritan". They obviously care little about the community and much about the dollars they can line their pockets with. I don't begrudge anyone the right to profit, unless it means they are willing to use any means to make that profit...including a blatent disrespect for healthy views of members in the community.

"Now the puritans have a taste of victory..." Don't worry, they never win , they are always fighting against the devil and have forgotten how to see the beauty in this world.

You are confusing beauty with tacky images.

kawecki: Don't worry, they never win , they are always fighting against the devil and have forgotten how to see the beauty in this world.

Well, I don't know about that. I see lots of beauty in the world. I love to cloud watch in the summer time, the recent snow we had was certainly beautiful (at least until it turned to slush...and that had a certain bizarre beauty to it anyway). Having a girl look at me from between her legs with a narrow strip of cloth separating her butt cheeks and barely covering her vagina may be interesting, seductive, and erotic, but not necessarily beautiful...especially if it randomly pops up on my screen and it's only purpose is to sell me something. In fact depending on what the ad is trying to sell, and the pose, and the facial expression, and a lot of other variables...it might just be tacky and tasteless.

I'm not a "puritan"...I don't fight "devils"...I know beauty when I see it and I know that beauty isn't always something that makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over. I don't object to nudity...some people do, I am open minded enough to be able to understand their viewpoint and felt their "standards" were reasonable enough that I could support their request not to have explicit content inflicted on them by the banner ads. I suspect that merchants "profits" will be far more impacted by their whining, mischaracterizations, and unfair labeling than by the limits placed on their banner ads. Any merchant that cannot understand that or discuss it without making such characterizations or handing out such labels will find my wallet never comes out of my pocket for their products.

I too am not against nudity, but it has its place.. Artistic nudity is fine by me..in its place.. I will have to go with what Illusions said.. * Having a girl look at me from between her legs with a narrow strip of cloth separating her butt cheeks and barely covering her vagina may be interesting, seductive, and erotic, but not necessarily beautiful...* Well... that type of nudity IMO isnt necessary and doesnt qualify as 'artistic nudity' and isnt desperately needed to sell. I resent being labled a 'prude, prig, purtian, complainer, whiner, malcontent or any other host of names just because I have different views. Not once that Im aware of have any of us called the creators/merchants/members that advocate this form of 'nudity' names such as this...

why are some members making a big stink over this?....i totally support the admins in there decision to not allow the nudity on the banners.......just like alot of you...i too was getting fed up with seeing these banners that made this sirte look like a porn site......i come here to renderosity on my breaks at work.....and even though im lalowed to do soo....i have to watch my back and make sure i scroll down quickly because of these ads ......but let me say this that blackhearted banners i thought those to be tasteful...... but still .....even though they were tasteful in my mind......instead of picking on a few members banners.....all banners had to be re worked.....and thats the bottom line....it has nothing to do with picking on one member.....im just tired of seeing all these products offering pubic hair and genital morphs.....like how many of those products do we really need here?.........ive come to the conclusion the reason i kept on seeing them here is because the member wants something easy to make and sell .....IMHO.......just like the members selling finger nails for vicky and eye ball textures.......why dont these merchants make something the community could really use......most of these products are useless and should be offered for free and work on something thats worth buying....i dont mean to lash out on the merchants cause alot of you are doin a great job...and im not one of those members who hates the merchantscause i want to become one....but id rather offer something the community needs and not just rush out and do something easy like pubic hairs ......so please dont go making a fuss over this minor thing ....cause there has to be guidelines set....if you have someone to blame dont blame the administrators....blame the merchants who made those crappy cheesy banners that started this.....one bad banner ruins them all epseically the pubic hair one....... nnuu

....im just tired of seeing all these products offering pubic hair and genital morphs.....like how many of those products do we really need here?......... Ive often wondered that very thing.. just curious mind you, what exactly do you use a 'genital morph' for? I mean if your trying to sell textures for skin, clothes, etc..who's going to see the genitals if they are covered by clothes?? Nope, I think that it is for pornography purposes myself..I could be wrong tho..anyone want to enlighten me as to why these types of morphs are needed? not trying to get another flamer goin' Im just curious..never learn anything if ya dont ask questions.. ~J

I am a merchant, and I can see both sides to some degree. I understand that the line between virtual and real is being blurred, in some cases that is good, and others it is bad. The problem is that this site is world wide, and what would be consider lewd in my community, might be considered prudish in another. So we have to understand that there are many cultures that people are coming from. 2nd, is that the market went upside down late last August. After Curious labs announced the release of Poser 5, everybody stopped buying. This put an increased pressure on some of the merchants. And it seemed that the 9/11 anniversary took a bit of a toll. Then just when things got to going again, there was a major upheval with some rule changes at the end of Oct. Sales are just starting to get back to where they think they should be, and the rules started changing again. 3rd, I think that many of the merchants are sensitive to any change of the rules, and the abruptness of any change. In particular, this one happen within a few hours. It probably would have been much more well received if they said we have been too laxed on the nudity in banner ads, we feel that your ad should be replaced ASAP, but within 3 days. This would have gone over much smoother, and given the merchant time to redo it, rather than to just pull it. Sometimes it is a fine line managing all of the merchants in the store. And quite frankly they are trying to set down clear rules, so that they don't have to judge the "art" of the ad. I think that some of the ads did show a lack of taste, while others showed a lot of skin, but with class. I agreed that some needed to be redone, but how does one past judgement? That is a damn good question. So, as merchants, we are given a hit statistic, i.e. that your ad has had 112 click and 789 displays. So as we try to play a game with the potential customers, (at least some of us do) we try to find out what banner gets clicked most often. Any banner that get over a certain ratio, we put in a folder, to rerun in a few months. Any that don't, we trash, and try again. So, you the customer can be part of the solution. Because, what has happened up until this week was we would run a banner, and it seemed that the more skin that was showing, the more clicks it got, and thus more sales. The problem is that this led to some ads that showed a lack of taste. What can you do? How about reward the best banner ad that you see with a little acknowledgement, just like artist of the month. How about banner of the week? Just a thought. I see that your discussion, you don't want people flaming each other. You would like to see something positive come out of this, then take this post for just that. Let it be a discussion starter on rewarding positive events. You might even develop a following and move on to other areas. But, what do I know, I am just a merchant, trying to get by, raising a little bit of money to help my kids.

How about reward the best banner ad that you see with a little acknowledgement, just like artist of the month. How about banner of the week? Now this is a nice idea! :) I have actually seen some new banners popping up that I thought were very tastefully done. One I just saw was for lingere actually.. Id post it if I could, but I wont ;) The ad shows a woman, no tacky pose, in red bikini lingere.. very nicely presented if I say so myself..one that my youngest daughter would not be offended by.. I would hope that the merchants suffer no loss in sales, and if having a contest of sorts to help them out and encourage them to produce more tasteful banners, and possibly gain more customers, then Im for that. ~Jani :)

There's only been one banner ad that I noticed enough to sit there and say, "Wow!" and that was Blackhearted's with the eye and lip closeup that reminded me of a Picasso. I may disagree with him on every other subject but that banner caught my eye.
With the limitation on size, there isn't much you can do anyway. Creativity is going to be key now. There are enough banners that are getting the point across. The one I'm seeing at the top of this page for example. Close up of eyes showing one very good feature of the character and text detailing what's in the package.
That's what I like to see. Tasteful and informative. In fact, I'm going to to see what character it is. :)

...(Miasma for Victoria 3 just went into my wishlist) :)

What I can't understand.... is WHY 2 members in this thread, lynching merchants & bitching about non-nude skin showing the MOST.... have NO gallery ?? But, yet your a self-appointed art critic ?? Take My advise... DON'T quit your day job in hopes of a Promising career as an art critic. My 5 cents worth Thomas

Because this is the only thing that they are able to do....

Folks, please let's not even go there. Having a gallery is in no way a requisite for having a voice. Kevin.

All you can do ??? I beg to differ... don't see you whining & bitching about pre-teen naked faries.... why ??? Because they are SOOOOOOOOOOO cute ?? WTF ??? Thomas

well, both of my banner ads have been deleted by the administration as a result of this thread. i dont find them 'offensive' at all, nor do i think they are 'garbage' or 'sexist' or 'pornographic' or even suggestive in any way. neither has a single person from over forty people that ive shown them to, including my mother and grandmother. ive spent a long time working on both of them, and was quite proud of how they turned out. for anyone thats interested, they can be seen here. (since f i posted them in this thread they would be deleted). hope youre all happy, you got what you wanted. i wont be releasing any more products at renderosity. cheers, -gabriel

What about the hi-res Pacifier.... for all the F#%kin whiners Gabriel ?? Bet it'd be a top seller... esp in the gift department ... heh heh :o) Thomas

no, that would go in freestuff.

lmao... yeah, that would make a very cool gift. too bad the minimum price is $5, otherwise id put it up in the store for 25 cents, and people could give them as gifts for those extra special people :)

I'll be watching for you over at RDNA, BH. And for what it's worth, after looking at the banners on your site, I have to agree with you, that they didn't cross the line. Wonder how many vendors are going to go bye bye from this one.....

heh heh Dale... watch for ALL the Censored Banners popping up ;) Thomas

It's starting to look like the pro-nudity guys are getting nasty about this, seeing their position is weak. Nudity will always have a place in art, but we're talking sales, not art. Nudity for the sake of money is pornography, and getting all nasty and whiny about just makes you look bad.

mateo, the only people who come off as whiney are the people bitching that there are offensive, non-nude ads up there. please point out on my ads exactly where you see nudity, or offensiveness, or anything 'unacceptable'. they adhere to the TOS, yet now its purely a 'subjective' matter. im not 'pro-nudity'. im 'anti-sexual repression' and 'anti-prude'. whereas i wouldnt want my kid growing up and surfing porn sites at age 12, id FAR rather have that than have him grow up in a sheltered psycho-moralistic coccoon and regard the female form as 'deviant'. were not talking about 'money shots' here, or pubic hair (as someone totally irrelevantly brought up) or even nipples. were talking about the contour of a hip, a hand covering a breast shyly, a partially undone blouse showing a hint of cleavage, etc etc. the only thing deviant here is the failure to accept that human sexuality, and nudity, is the most natural thing in the world. anyone that classifies THAT as pornography needs to have their head examined, and i pray that they never have kids upon whose helpless minds they will impose such prudish values. cheers, -gabriel

You know, Gabe, I never thought I'd be hearing myself say this Mate considering our disposition towards each other in the past, but I have to say I agree with you on this. By far, your advertisments were much more tasteful and eye-capturing than many of the ones that float around above our threads... which says a lot since I don't pay much mind to many, so if they capture my attention and interest, that's saying a lot! Cheers! Jack