Above is a comparison of: LEFT: the default M3sr1 mesh with no morphs MIDDLE: the M3 to M2 mesh with M3 face morphs RIGHT: the default M2 mesh with no morphs Looking at them all next to each other is interesting: 1) I really like having a morphable M3 head on the M2 body shape, too bad the body can't morph as well. The old M2 to P4NM head wasn't able to take the regular M2 face morphs, so this is a really cool improvement. I can't to try M2 clothes on M3 to see how well it works. :D 2) The joint areas do look better on M3SR1 in this pose than M2. However, you can clearly see the strange circular depression on the inside left forearm that doesn't exist on the m3sr1 right arm. Bizarre. 3) I do miss M2's manly man pecs and nipples which don't look like boobs morphed to look more manly. *sigh* But hey, at least M3's pecs look better than V3 Male's. I thought V3Male was really deformed looking, M3's shape is so much better. 4) I like the detailing in M3's shape. Areas like the neck, adam's apple, collarbone, arms, hands, and knees have far more detail than the old M2 mesh. 5) Have I mentioned that I like M3's head so much better, and find it's morphs to better than M2's? 6) I think M3's legs and feet are huge improvement over M2's.You can't see it in this picture, but M3's feet are also a more manly size than M2's miniature nubs. ;) 7) Overall, I think M3 has problem spots mostly in breasts, pecs, nipples, and arm joints. 8) I know I've already said the M3 face I like better, but I would also like to say M3's ears are properly lined up to fall between the eyes and the bottom of the nose unlike M2's ear that sag too low. Anyhoo, what do you all think looking at the Mike comparisons? bB

Above is a halfway morph of M3Sr1 into the M2 shape of M3/M2. It's kinda cool looking, a little of the best of both worlds, especially in the pectoral area. I wish there were way inject this halfway shape into M3SR1's body shape. One more thing, after looking at a picture of the Daz figure polygons compared to each other over at: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=1460893&Reply=1462021#27 I'm starting to think that I would like the next upgrade for Michael to include some of the polygon placements of the M2 mesh. There were strategic polygon placements in M2 for male figure muscles. So if M3 can have A LOT of unneeded breast polygons (Unimesh artifacts left over from the female models), why can't the next generation of the Unimesh incorporate more of the good designs that M2 had for males. In the overly-detailed-M3-breast defense, I will give credit to them for making a great fat M3 body morph. It's really impressive what Unimesh 1 can do, and I think it could so much better strategic placements of polygons for male muscle morphs added to it, like taking the best of V2 and M2 and adding them together for the next generaton of the Unimesh. bB

Bast, there is no strange circular depression... I finally realised what the hell you've been talking about and why you only noticed it on the Left...

You've been rendering this entire time with poser's default lighting, where the primary light source is on the left side of the screen. This causes the shadow to appear on the left but not the right in your poses. Try it with a more uniform lighting set and you'll see what I mean.... as in the attached picture. the light set here applies light equally to both left and right sides...

Now, find anyone with a build similar to default Mike3 and ask them to hold their arm out... take a good look at the not-so-strange circular depression in between the Brachioradialus on the outside of the forearm and the muscles on the opposite side (inner arm)... Notice the depression? I can tell you flat out, it's not an oddity, that's all you. I am built very similar to Mike 3, and I have that same strange circular depression in my forearm... and so do a lot of people I've looked at. It's the depression that naturally exists in between the two muscle groups.

I'm not built like Mike (wish I was) but I have the same dent in my arms, I reckon it's something that everyone has not just a select few :)

Just my little say,... Although no model is perfect, I do think some of these errors in the bosy mesh result in incorrect posing, like using one joint to move the arm, or leg, when you get a much better result when using a comination. I where possible try to think how i move, then as far as the model will allow replicate it... I see all the weird shoulders on M3 & sometimes V3, and i know its because of the way its been over posed... ;)

epp sorry about the type'O's... not enough caffine yet.. lol I always think that posing is an art in its self!!

Simderella wrote: "I always think that posing is an art in its self!!" You're right! Just ask any of the old school stop-motion animators like Phil Tippet. It's a timeless art that dates back far before Poser was ever even a twinkle in a programmer's eye. ;-)

Ray Harryhausen could teach us a thing or 2 with poser if he was still with us :)

hehe... was that the guy who did those stop motion thingy's on Sinbad and films like that? They were strangly kewl, bizzare but excellent.

Posing is bloody hard work. :D

DraX , Damn that default Poser lighting! LOL! Thanks for the attached image. I admit, I had already checked my own arm against M3's to see if there some kind of indent there which is natural, but I don't have one so I assumed it was a mistake in M3. LOL. I don't know if this a girl guy thing, or if I'm just a weakling with no indent, but either way, it's not an easy thing to consider that it's me that has a "mesh distortion" instead of M3. ;p bB

I was thinking... Would it be possible to have someone who is brillant at posing characters give M3Sr1 a test drive? I would like to see their results and read their reactions on M3SR1. It would be plus too, if they could share any special tips on how to get the best results with M3sr1. :D That would be cool. :D bB

I've always found that the best way to pose a figure is ctually to strike a pose yourself in front of a full length mirror... Take a look at how the various parts of your body move to achieve that pose, and how those relate to their Poser counterparts. As per the indentation, it is not a girl/guy thing, though is usually more commonly identified in Men, since today's all-too-common stick-figure-women wouldn't really have the muscle tone to show that. It shows up best in people who are Thin to Medium build with light to average muscle tone, I think...