Is it me or does Michael 3 have a real problem with his shoulders? They look just terrible when rendered! I have seen many wonderful pictures of him but once you look at this shoulders, it just looks so awful. I wonder if DAZ realizes this and if they are going to fix it. Just a thought. ;)

What problem do you have with it? "Terible" is justsuch a vague and general term and can't be addressed specifically with your problem.

perhaps you didnt get the sr1 update? if you did then I have no Idea what you are talking about becouse M3's shoulders are worlds better then M2

Why not post an example?

Well, I don't think I have the sr1. But what I mean by terrible is, his shoulders look very round and unrealistic.

Actually I should also say that I did not intend to offend anyone, but I must have by the way you all jumped down my back. I just think his shoulders look very unrealstic and wondered if there was a fix.

You have to be careful with the posing. Make sure to use small movements in the Collars, and larger in the Shoulder

Thank you Lyrra ;)

It's not anything personal against you, JaMaCoVe. It's just there's been a lot of extremely vague "Oh, BlahFigure is just awful" with no detail, no example. One can't fix a problem if one doesn't know where exactly the problem is. Such as you say M3's shoulders look weird (round, unrealistic)... Do you mean in his default pose or a pose you've created? As Lyrra said, you have to be sure to move the right parts in the right amount. I remember when V3 came out and many people were complaining she had a lump in her thigh, but it was because people were moving the wrong parts around and not (or very little of) another.

The shoulders look round after my pose. But I am adjusting the pose a little the the collar and shoulder area and it seems to be looking a bit better. THank you for your help. ;)

If you think we jumped down your back then I apoplogise but as was said your question was very vague. believe me you did not offend me. and after dealyng with m2's bolling ball shoulders for almost two years now m3's are worlds better, (not that I have anything against m2 but his shoulder joints were not his best feature. the theory about using multipal joints to adjust one are based on the fact that a joint in poser can only move in a radial arc and other then the clumsy system of falloff zones there is no way to really effectively simulate muscle displacement. theirfore a joint bent too far will naturaly form a rounded shape. becouse the shoulder bends so radicly this effect is magnified, that is why it has been spread out into two joints and anyone who poses a figure enough comes to realize that as much of a PIA as that is, it is necessary to overcome the basic limitations of the poser joint paramiters.

This is sometimes a result of not posing the character correctly, i have no probs with his shoulders. It does seem to me that many people over pose arms and legs, when its best done in little bits using more than one joint to do it.. You might also try decreasing the deltoids, that sometimes get rid of the roundy shoulder. ;)

JaMaCoVe, I complete agree with your concern about the roundness and "massiveness" of M3 shoulders. It appears in the default pose, and all poses supplied by Daz with the M3 package in which the arms are down to the sides (which is not that complex a pose, and if Daz can't hide it...). Raising, lowering or twisting the collar has no noticeable effect. Trying to steer well clear to all references to morph origins, mesh design, and other "sensitive" issues, let me please put it this way along with a constructive solution or 2: For each of the Full Body morphs supplied by Daz - Base, Muscular 1/2/3, Skinny, Young and even Emancipated, the muscle development necessary to have shoulders like that is disproportionately large to the muscle development in the rest of the arm and the body. No one can have shoulders that look as if he single arm curl a weight heavier than he has biceps and leg muscles with which to lift the same weight off of the ground using both arms! This is particularly noticeable in the less-than-Base settings, eg, Skinny, where M3 has very little biceps - which is fine for Skinny - but still has massively developed shoulders, viewed from the front and the side, particularly in the upper arm area. Can Daz please consider a) toning this muscle down in the Base setting, and b) proportionally increasing/decreasing it 's size in the Muscular/Skinny type of morphs? Otherwise as it stands today, there is no way to have an M3 character without well-developed shoulder muscles - and simply faking it by posing will not change that. Applying the Deltoid at 1.000 does help with the shoulder size, however it introduces an unrealistic flatness to that area, as it only affects the center of the muscle when run backwards, so the front-rear curvature of the shoulder is lost. But perhaps a true DeltoidsSmall morph is an alternate solution to all this? A similar but smaller problem also exists with M3 pecs - M3 always has pec muscles all the way through Skinny and Young, even though all other muscles (bar the aforementioned shoulders) correctly atrophy away. This just doesn't happen in the real world, you have to develop other muscles before you can possibly develop pecs! Again perhaps a NoPecs morph is in order at this point in the development of M3? (The supplied Pectral morph wont run backwards without raising the sternum). Thanks.

The M3 shoulders are way smaller and more realistic than the M2 ones.

Caly, That's hardly the point I was trying to make. I was trying to compare the M3 model to real bodies. But yes, M3 shoulders if you place M3 right in front of M2 (fully zeroed pose, Front camera), are FRACTIONALLY larger - but M2's biceps are nearly DOUBLE the size of those on M3. (Indeed all other major muscle groups on M2 are larger to some degree.) It's the RELATIVE proportions (within M3 itself) that are off IMHO - shoulders & pecs to biceps & calves etc. And yes I realize that this is subjective, but I was trying to point out to Daz that while these proportions may be fine for some applications, they are not fine in ALL applications. And to date there are no options/morphs to adjust that ratio - other than by beefing up the rest of M3 muscle groups individually (a huge number of dials) to match the essentially fixed shoulders and pecs. But that still doesn't give you a slimmer guy. The NoPecs morph suggested earlier should produce an essentially 'flat' chest area, and the DeltoidsSmall morph should reduce the bulk of the shoulders, reduce the front-to-back depth of the deltoids, and move the center of radius of the shoulder out slightly for a sharper curvature to the shoulder looking from the front - representing exposure of the bone structure of the shoulder in the ascence of little covering muscle. Adding those 2 morphs would increase M3 flexibility at the slim end (whereas the "Freak" is clearly to address the massive end). BTW, both of these morphs are effectively available to V3, and thus to some extent to V3M, and so are presumably technically feasible in M3. Trying to put it another way: Let the range of muscle sizes for flesh-and-blood males spanning Emancipated to Muscle3 be represented by 1 at the low end, and 10 at the high end, then M3 Base has Deltoids at 5 and everything else set at about 4. Additionally individual morphs for Deltoids are available for a range of 6 thru 10, Pecs are available at about 3 thru 10, and all other major muscle groups are fully adjustable through the entire 1 thru 10 range. I'm past comparing M3 to M2 - or even V3 - having purchased M3 I'm looking for the model to COMPLEMENT M2 - not replicate it. An obvious use for M3 is slimmer bodies than M2, which would be fine, except I keep ending up with a Gray Davis with Arnold S' shoulders and pecs. That's not right! :-)

The thing is if you did a no pecs morph it is the same as the pecs morph in reverse, same for the deltoids. All it really does is add more dials and file size. It does make it a bit clearer I will admit but if you morph all the dials can be turned in positive and negative values.

Please read my prior post (#13) regards the issues with running those 2 morphs backwards - or try it for yourself. Unless a morph is designed to run backwards it will almost always have negative consequences, esp. if you need to go all the way to -1.000.