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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2025 Jan 28 6:42 am)
Subject: We need a change in the freestuff defaults ...
We decided it was safer to err on the side of caution and put "non-commercial only" as the default, especially since we implimented this long after we had a large number of free stuff links already on the site. It's better to find out that you can use something commercially after you download it, rather than find out you can't. (Especially for people who have dial-up connections.) I think part of the problem is people are mistaking commercial usage for commercial redistribution. Some say in the readmes that you can use the items in any render you want, but not to sell the items themselves. To be on the safe side, though, they are deliberately tagging the item as "non-commercial only" because they are concerned that someone will sell the models and/or textures. I'll ask the admins if we can get something in the wording that makes it clearer so if commercial renders are okay, people will tag their items properly.
Lyrra, if things were correctly categorised, you would have more things to enjoy. And I completely agree with Crescent about confusion with commercial redistribution, especially in cases of contributors whose first language is not English. If the default were changed, it would encourage people to see openness as the default, rather than restriction. Most people aren't mean-minded, or they wouldn't be making freestuff in the first place. Why push them towards imposing restrictions that simply gets their stuff passed over by Lyrra and others?
I agree with Phantast and geoegress. I too have by-passed a lot of "restricted" items. I just looked at the uplaod page and suggest that no default be offered. Instead, a choice must be made to proceed...such as: o Public Domain o Commercial Renders Authorized/Distribution Restricted o Non-Commercial Only (Restricted renders/distribution) But if you have to have a default, make it the second one. :-)
But would Public Domain mean that you could in fact SELL the model then? See I don't know, I'm not trying to be a smartass. Personally I tag all my stuff as commercial, becourse well.. frankly I would think it would be so COOL if someone used some of my stuff for a real commercial or something. So far I've only seen ONE commercial render of one of my things. But it was on Daz so it counts double in my vanity-book LOL
FREEBIES! | My Gallery | My Store | My FB | Tumblr |
You just can't put the words "Poserites" and "happy" in the same sentence - didn't you know that? LaurieA
 Using Poser since 2002. Currently at Version 11.1 - Win 10.
Some people feel that since they're creating these items on their own time, and paying money to give those items away (hosting and bandwidth), it's annoying that people would try to profit off their generosity.
It's far better for people to miss a freebie that was mismarked as non-commercial only rather than members of the community leave because they feel they've been taken advantage of. As well, we have fan art freebies - super hero character textures and such. These can not be used commercially without the creator's permission. If someone forgot to tag them appropriately, then there could be legal problems down the road.
As a courtesy, and to head off possible legal complications, it's better for us to keep the default of "non-commercial use only" but I am trying to get better definitions for usage.
Cheers!
I have passed by freebies marked "non-commercial" unless it's something really extraordinary. Not that I would ever be in a position to sell anything...it's just something weird about me. I don't suppose this really bothers the offerers of the freebies but seeing a big download count might make them feel good. In other words, if there weren't many downloads, they might think their freebie wasn't considered very good or something. My memory can play tricks on me but didn't this default setting come about from a big discussion nearly a year ago or something?
Trekkie, yes, public domain means someone could sell the item. Public domain means there is NO copyright. None. Nada. It belongs to society as a whole, and any individual can do ANYTHING they want with it. I doubt there are many public domain items in freestuff.
I STRONGLY agree with the decision to make the default non-commercial use only. My only suggestion there would be to make that "personal use only", which might be clearer to some who are confused by the term "non-commercial".
The simple fact is, if you use something that has a personal use only license commercially, you are opening yourself up for trouble, no matter how it was tagged. It is the EULA that matters, not the tag on Renderosity or any other site. Given that, if you download something that is marked non-commercial and find it can be used commercially, no harm is done. If you download something marked commercial OK and find out later it can't be used commercially, harm may be done, either in the lost time to replace it or even a lawsuit for copyright infringement.
As for the unimaginable state of mind that would not allow a free item to be used for profit, not everyone comes from the same culture. Some societies/religions/other groups consider using a gift for profit to be unimaginably rude, or insulting, or just plain unacceptable. They find the state of mind that would make someone even try to be unimaginable. The fact that their paradigm is different than yours does not make it inferior.
Poser Freebie Bitch and Moan Club...
Sometimes I find my life is more simple than I believe it to be, as in this case. I don't even notice the 'usage' tag because the only thing I intend to use the stuff for is my own personal use, and of course sometimes the result of this is posted in a 'open to the public' gallery. Or is it possible that in this simplistic outlook I am violating some prohibitive warning that I am not aware of? Gawd, I just make my life complicated again with questions!
I skip anything with the non-commercial usage tag. Really, there is no better advertising of your product than to have it used in a commercial render! I have no use for restricted freebies. I have helped many creators sell their stuff. I get an email asking about a prop or character, I send a link to the maker's site. I buy a lot of stuff and having useful freebies is the best way to get me to make the decision to purchase. If I cannot use it in a commercial render, I won't try it, and I probably will not buy anything from the creator because they are stupid enough to put that restriction on their freebies.
Not all freebie providers are gearing up to be vendors. Some people just want to show off the cool thing they made and let others play with it. In case you're wondering, almost all of my freebies allow commercial use. I have no problems with commercial use. I also like and prefer freebies that allow it. However, I think it's very rude to call freebie providers who don't "stupid" or otherwise insult them. I've tried to explain why someone might chose to restrict their freebies for reasons other than personal profit. As for the subject at hand, again, I think the current situation of having commercial use allowed freebies tagged as noncommercial is more beneficial than to have noncommercial freebies tagged as commercial use allowed.
Well, I do think they are stupid, and I have every right to say so. If you think it is rude, that's your problem. I do not have time to weed thru the restricted stuff if I download it, to see if I might get in trouble for using somebody's face morph or texture in a render that I sell. It's a waste of hard-drive space. There is no downside to having a freebie show up in a commercial render - it is good for the maker. I give them credit and promote them. I skip the stupid restricted stuff.
Don't really understand the logic of how giving a freebie creator credit in a commercial render would help them...to me it would seem like a deadend exposure. A buyer of a commercial render would most likely not care as it is the end product, the render, they are interested in. I doubt seriouslly if they would be in the market to purchase a '3ds sled prop' or a 'Poser5 dress model'. Don't misunderstand me, I am not trying to stir something up here... I am just curious.
What if the person doesn't want to be promoted? What if they just want to share with other hobbyists and want to conserve bandwidth and costs by restricting the usage? How is that stupid? As a word of advise - take or leave - insulting free stuff providers is a good way to get them to leave the community entirely, or have them turn exclusively to selling items. Even if you can't use their stuff, is it worth chasing them away so no one can use their stuff?
From my own selfish perspective - I use the freebies to judge the quality of the merchants. I do use the unrestricted freestuff, but not as much as the good items I buy here. Not restricting me to use a freebie does no harm at all to a hobbyist. In order to find the rare gems of useful freebies, I must wait for the thumbs of the useless stuff to load, wasting my time - I am on a slow rural dialup - no options for dsl or cable. Then I must read the fine print. I have vision problems, and would rather save my eyesight for useful tasks like rendering. I do more than take or leave, I buy here. I use the freebies to judge the potential purchase. I represent more value to this place of business than 1000 freestuff grazers who will NEVER spend a dime. There are options for hosting freebies. If anyone needs some space, I can more than likely help them. More grazers will dl any item than commercial artists, so restricting us is not helping the bandwidth issue. I could care less if the restricted usage freebie providers leave with their useless items, because I do not use them. AND I do try to help people, so do not try to paint me as a greedy person.
I can understand not wanting others making money off of something you have been so generous to give away for free. I understand not wanting your work to be redistributed. I don't understand not wanting your work to be used in a commercial render. I think it would be quite flattering, as Ernyoka1 has stated. Not to mention the free advertising as long as you were given proper credit. I avoid using anyone's freestuff for anything other than personal renders. Too many read me's get overwritten, and I can never remember where I found the stuff, so when it comes to giving credit where credit is due...I am at a lack for words.
mondoxjake, I post renders at some communities. Other artists see them. I get emails all the time, asking what this prop or that texture is. I refer the interested parties to the makers of the items. They buy them. I have sent buyers to Traveler, Ajax, Davo, and many others. There is no questioning the fact that using these goods is anything but beneficial to the makers. Even if the maker has no interest in selling, they still get the satisfaction of having their stuff seen, used, and praised. I help sell the goods. I buy it, use it, promote it.
A lot of the free stuff providers are not merchants. They simply give things away because they enjoy creating things and they want others to enjoy as well. Their stuff is not useless for the majority of the people here who are hobbyists and have no intentions of doing anything but personal artwork. Just because you don't have a use for the freebies doesn't mean a lot of other people at this site have no use for them. It's like everything else: if you don't like something that's free, don't download it. Please don't disparage those who create the personal freebies, though. A good number of people at this site depend on freebies for much of their personal artwork. (Not everyone has a huge amount of disposable cash to spend on a hobby, and Poser can add up really quickly.) Thanks, Cres
well even the simplest freebie can take a while to make and pack for upload, plus the issues of hosting. So anyone who is willing to make that effort is doing a Good Thing and should be commended. However, as a commercial artist I restrict my usage to items I will not have legal liability for using. This means that if I am not assured they are 'safe' for a commercail render I won't use them. Its a shame, and I don't understand why some items are restricted, but I cannot afford legal trouble with my clients work. I think that if the programmer can manage a "View only Commercial Use" (or noncommercial) option that would be a tremendous help for those on dial-up.
Crescent, I do not have "disposable" cash, and Poser is not just a hobby. If I can make X amount of money in one week with Poser, I do not mind spending .25x to get me to that goal. If I can locate a commercial usage freebie to get me to that goal, fantastic. I still may spend some of my profit on a utility or some other useful item. I will more than likely consider something made by the same creator of the freebie that enabled me to finish the job. The freebie helped me do this. It is good for me, good for the merchants, good for my clients, good for the entire Poser community. Since I got the job done, I pay my bills, I relax, maybe I create a tutorial and give it away, maybe I help somebody on the forum on a topic I know about, or learned about with help from others.
I don't have a problem with that. I just don't want people to stop sharing because they don't feel appreciated, or that their wishes will be respected. My freebies are okay for commercial renders but I can understand why some might place restrictions and I want to respect their wishes (and reasons) for the restrictions.
I hope Lyrra doesn't mind, but I put her great suggestion about the filter in the Mod area, in case she doesn't get to that thread for a while. (Yes, I credited you, Lyrra!) ;-)
Hopefully this can be implimented so everyone can be happy. It would also help some of the freebie providers as their thumbnails wouldn't be hit as often if there's restrictions, so it's less bandwidth usage on them.
Cheers!
I just don't want people to stop sharing because they don't feel appreciated, or that their wishes will be respected. change that to: I just don't want people to stop sharing because they don't feel appreciated, or that their wishes will not be respected. I think that's a hint that it's bedtime for me! Yawn!
"because they are stupid enough to put that restriction on their freebies. " Why, oh, why does the same handful of totally ungrateful and selfish and egocentric consumers (I am not about to call them human, since they perhaps are not people at all, merely swine wallowing in the muck of their own greed-begotten collection of downloads) choose to disparage and insult the very people who are most generous with their offerings? You keep raising this issue. We keep telling you not to force the free stuff providers into giving away more rights than they already are. The copyrights are not yours to determine! If you do not build the item with your own time and sweat and skill, you do not have the right to declare the usage of that item. May I suggest that you pay for everything and avoid even going into the Free Stuff areas of these forums! That way you will be assured that absolutely everything you see is useful for your business and you won't waste your time or the bandwidth of those folks who provide for the hobbyists who are the vast majority of this community. No questions. No problems. No driving away folks from other cultures or ways of life. No insults. Everybody wins. Oh, you don't want to pay for the right to use it? Then may I suggest that you build it yourself! Carolly
(1)There's nothing wrong with having a discussion like this because there are problems with the way it currently works. The labels under the thumbs are useless if they don't represent the actual wishes of the 'provider'. If one has to download everything to find out if the label was correct, then DISPENSE WITH THE LABELS. (2)There are many reasons for providing a 'free' download and not all of them are altruistic (3)There are many reasons to download a 'freebie' and not all of them are selfish. (4)Many current hobbyists have commercial renders in their future. (5)Commercial use only rarely involves a lot of money and downloaders are not going to get rich off of the providers' efforts. (6)Cultural reasons for restricting use are only reasons, not a cause celeb. Individuals can and have changed their stance. Assumptions we can make: (1)Repackaging or adapting the 'freebie' into another product, whether commercial or free, is almost always disallowed. Exceptions are public domain and Merchant resources. (2)Commercial images may include but are not limited to display at commercial sites, images for hire, contest entries, Cafepress type offerings. (3)All freebies may be used in personal non-commercial work. Unless the actual readme is available for perusal I suggest that Renderosity state on each page that (1)Unless specifically noted in the individual license, all repackaging or use of downloads or their derivatives for redistribution is forbidden. (2)All downloads may be used in personal work The label under the thumbnail should read either (a)Non-commercial ONLY or (b)Use in commercial IMAGES allowed
Let me put it like this: You are standing at the roadside, hoping for a lift. A car stops. The driver says, "You looking for a lift?" "Yes please," you say. "Well," says the driver, "You must tell me first if you are travelling for personal reasons or for work. If you're on business I don't see why you should profit from my generosity in giving you a lift." Now, what do you think to yourself? Do you think: 1. Don't criticise him, he's offering you a lift. 2. What planet was this weirdo brought up on? Now re-read the thread.
I had a thought. On new items, there doesn't need to be a "default" option at all. Instead of the current checkbox, use either uninitialized radio boxes or a pulldown menu to chose the option, and don't allow the freebie to be submitted until an option is chosen. Just a javascript to check when the submit button is pushed and pop up an alert window if it isn't chosen will do it.
"Now, what do you think to yourself? Do you think: 1. Don't criticise him, he's offering you a lift. 2. What planet was this weirdo brought up on? Now re-read the thread." He can offer you a lift and you can get into the car but if you don't like the way he drives, the interior decor of the car, the car's paint job, the topless Hula girl gyrating on the dash or that funny smell coming from under the seat (or worse, the trunk!) then you're pretty much out of luck if you really want that ride, aren't you? That is, unless you refuse the ride and thumb down another driver with a car that suits your tastes, or pay the fare for a bus or taxi and get the kind of ride conditions you'd expect. If I were driving and I picked up a hitchhiker who did nothing but bitch about how he had to flag down and refuse the last ten rides, then proceded to complain about my driving, my car decor and my little Hula girl--- I'd give him the boot and let some other poor schmuck deal with that person.
nukem, I'm not criticising any of those things you raise. Answer the question. What would you think if someone offered you a lift on the express condition that you wouldn't benefit financially from it? Would you think that person was a balanced member of society? The colour of the car's paint job doesn't come into it. Personally, I think such behaviour is simply abnormal - in the sense of rarely encountered.
As a maker of commercial images, lets say I decide to give away copies of one of my recognizeable Poser characters. Since I use this figure in my commercial work I disallow commercial use so as NOT to have competition. See? starts to make more sense doesn't it. The only other reasons I mark some things as non commercial is that I used noncommercial use materials in making it, or it is a theme I don't own rights to like Star Trek. I agree that the flagging is usless if it is not used. But what are we to do about it? if uploaders are too lazy to read things and flip switches there is not too terribly much that we can do. Be happy that there are SOME things flagged at least shrug
Oh , no, the Mutant Pig-Men Revolt, funded by the obscene profits of selling renders made with Poser freebies, has been revealed! We shall have to find some other way to fund our overthrowing of the carnivorous humans. Alas, to be half-pig and half-human, to see one of our relations eat another, what horrid fate!
LOL... I am Mondo Jake, mondo_jake, MondoJake, wherever I go online...just depending whether the site will except spaces between names. Why Renderosity decided to replace my __underscore with an x and make me mondoxjake when I joined 3 years or so ago is probably covered somewhere in the famous TOS!!
This thread is too buried to continue now, but anyway: Lyrra writes: "The only other reasons I mark some things as non commercial is that I used noncommercial use materials in making it, or it is a theme I don't own rights to like Star Trek." If you used materials that aren't your own, you shouldn't be distributing it at all, I'm afraid. If you distribute a Star Trek character, you don't NEED to specify non-commercial use. Anyone trying to make money out of Star Trek without permission from Paramount (?) is courting trouble.
Can't catch me there Phantast. I used materials not my own, that are ok to distribute in a changed form, but are not usable in commercial renders. ie using a noncommercial tiling texture in a clothing texture. The end result can only be given away and not used commercially I specify non-commercial use on media themed stuff just to cover my butt. Thou shalt not meddle with the belongings of the Mouse or the Mountain. (Disney and Paramount)
If you distribute a Star Trek character, you don't NEED to specify non-commercial use. Anyone trying to make money out of Star Trek without permission from Paramount (?) is courting trouble. Yep, and if the default option is "Commercial or Non-commercial use" and neither the poster nor the Mods think to change it to say "Non-commercial use only", we could wind up in serious trouble because it would look like we were supporting trademark/copyright infringement.
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And since the majority is Poser related, I post the suggestion here. I was looking through the collection yesterday and I was struck how many items are categorised as "non-commercial only". Checking some items against the readme files, I find this restriction is actually not intended by the author. Clearly, a lot of people submitting stuff to the site simply don't notice that the default setting is "non-commercial only". This means that the tag as it appears in the freestuff pages now is unreliable. For "unreliable" also read "useless". It takes a certain sort of mind to object actively to someone profiting in any way from a render that features their texture or prop tucked away in a corner (though I personally can't imagine what that mind can be like). If someone really takes such an objection, then they should have to declare it by clicking a "non-commercial only" option. The default should be "all uses", because a lot of people will just take the default whatever. And I cannot believe that most contributors really care to restrict how their item is used.