After reading what Arend has written, I think I get the gist of what he was trying to say. He may not have come across as tactfully as someone that speaks english natively, but I tend to agree with what he's saying for the most part. If this upsets people and they feel the need to 'boycott' my images from now on then go right ahead and do that. To put it bluntly, I couldn't care less. I have a life, I have a family and I have friends, and if someone chooses to not comment on something I made while I was waiting for something better to do. well, then that doesn't affect any of the priorities in my life and i'm not gonna waste any time thinking about it. It's natural to retaliate when someone has upset you or hurt you, I used to do it all the time and it's taken me a long time to realise it's not worth it. IT'S JUST A WEBSITE PEOPLE!!! If someone upsets you, then do what I do... Turn off the computer and go back to the real world, because no matter how bad it might be...at least it isn't virtual. Matt. (All the people i've upset with this post should take my advice and turn off their computers. You never know what might happen then...You may even have a conversation with someone you can actually see...)

Rumor and innuendo...I hate this. I haven't seen the offending IM's but my understanding was that Thelma was told her work was not deserving of being in the hot 20 and that she wasn't the only one to receive nasty IM's stating that. I was even more surprised to hear it was Arend as he is an excellent artist himself and always has images in the hot 20. When Thelma posted her goodbye fractal I checked the hot 20 because of her explanation and he had 2 on it then so it couldn't have been jealousy or envy. I have received IM's from Arend and others using translaters and they are terrible, you have to read between the lines! It's very possible that something came out all wrong...I really have no way of knowing. After reading Arend's post from Eveline it sounds to me that he may have IM'ed about the way the hot 20 worked (which is exactly what Dirk and Keith said) and his message got lost in the translation but I can only guess. Since this has all been made public now perhaps the IM should be also. I may have to go back to no comments for a bit...even though I really love to hear someone likes what I've made, this has to be kept in perspective. ;o) Edited to add a ^5 to Matt...;o)

Good advice, Matt.

But....ya know, it's not just a website. You have to treat something the same way people treat it. In other words, if people take it seriously, then it must be taken seriously.

This is a community. I used to say "aw, it's just words on a screen," but I was wrong. People develop friendships from places like these. Hell, I know people who have gotten married from meeting on discussion boards and chatrooms. So, to many folks, it's much more than a website. It's like sitting with friends in a living room. And the words they read here can be just as powerful as if spoken in someone's ear.

As far as the top twenty, sure, I agree. I can't personally relate to why anyone would take it seriously, as it has been obvious from the start that the top twenty list and the best art are more often mutually exclusive than not. But, some people do take it seriously, and others clearly perceive they have been harassed. It doesn't matter if they actually were, if they think they were, then they were, and nothing anyone can say can change their minds.

I think we all care what happens here to a certain degree, or we wouldn't be posting about it. If enough people in the fractal community want that top twenty list gone, and I don't know if this is the case, then perhaps it should be discarded. As far as the harassment, that's another story altogether. In my mind, the ones on the receiving end of the harassment should be consulted about Arend's banning. Even better, a dialogue between them all might be helpful, although that would be up to those who feel as if they were victimized.

Finally, Eveline, you gotta stop scolding people, and let them talk about what is important to them. :)

Mindy

Matt: Hahahah! Got it! Bravo! But.....;-))))) Have a nice life ,as I am sure you have!) A vitual hug for you! Eveline

Mindy: You the only one that can tell people what to do or not on this forum???? People get enough room to iterate any place else, so let me be, and say what is important to ME .....Evie

Eveline......There is a difference between expressing one's feelings and scolding people for it.

Might be your definition for scolding comes from another dictionary than mine...Or my definition about expressing myself? LOL...I come from a teachers family, sorry;-))) I promise to go back to "non-scolding" mode! Eveline

Does anyone know what the longest thread is in this forum? I VOTE that we keep on with this and make it longer than any thread in the history of threadiness... If it gets too long then I will bring some beers and someone else can bring some snacks and we will have a thread party!!! We could even wear our virtual party hats and dance to copyright infringed MP3's. We could have a game of fractal charades (how the hell do you mime 'Mandelbrot' anyway?) and tell jokes and stories about the fractals that got away... Or maybe I just need to open a few more windows and let out more of these paint fumes... Matt. (And yes I know it's off topic :OP).

Beer = Heineken? I'm in.

Yeah me too, only wine for me please:-)

Just been kinda lurking around keeping an eye on this thread for no other reason than curiousity, but I gotta tell ya, that last remark by CriminallyInsane about the paint fumes totally cracked me up. Now this would normally not be a big deal as when I laugh out loud at home my neighbors know not to think anything of it cuz they know I am a few sandwiches short of a picnic, but when I do it at work, I tend to get some pretty strange looks...Anyhoo...thank you Matt for the best giggle I've had all day :-)

That was hilarious, CriminallyInsane! Maybe we need a Fractal Party thread, lol.

Party?!!??!?! q-: Count me in! (:

Hi All... The original intent of this thread was to let everyone know that Barbara and I, are here to help. That is what we are here for. There is no need to start in with name-calling, and pointing fingers. If there is a problem with anything, or anyone here...we will handle it according to the TOS. Please read it. If you have questions about it...please ask. Also...in the future...there is no reason that anyone's name should be brought out publicly as it has been in this thread. THAT is uncalled for. THAT is what I want to avoid. I also want to make it clear that discussion and debate is fine, as long as it is within the TOS. I am not out to 'neuter' anything here (of course, my cat may have a different opinion on that, lol). I hope that in some way I am making some sense here :) Btw...did someone say ...party? :) Nick

okay ppl if ya wanna have this made the longest thread, about the subject hot20 or whatever, then betta start typin' LOL starts whining i neva get in the hot20 ... gets tissues to wipe the tears guess i have to kiss some butts ROFL nah ... kiddin' maybe comment some more??? yeah thats it!!!! oh btw if ya wanna see my latest check the animation contest LOL the next one is gonna be in the 'animation outlet' which is gonna take a while, but it surely is a fractal, only too bluddy big for rendero standard upload oh well i am a busy lad, gotta make an 'atelier' [ better look up what it is in english ] LOL studio smile ... out of my house thats all for today :-)) been thinking though, with soo many fractal artists, is it not a better idea to make a HOT40 ? hehehe see ya around some time Harmen