I was just wondering, as there was a lengthy thread discussing the appropriate credits, and moving of such image to the Product Showcase Gallery. Spike had said to hang on that they were going to take it to a meeting. Well, I believe that was almost a week ago. Any news or outcomes that you can share with us would be greatly appreciated!

Yup, I'd like to know more about that too .

Sorry, We are still looking at the impact of both sides of this. We want to try and make everyone happy and are trying to come up with a way to do that. This has been a very big issue for the merchants for a long time. I think this issue might have to go to member vote.

Part of the problem is that there is some misunderstandings on what is allowed and what isn't. Granted some are easy to identify, but not all. As merchants, if we were doing promo images and wanted to post them in the gallery we would. However, many of us do images for the poser gallery, and yes we use our stuff, but only because its part of the reason we created it, we wanted to use it ourself. So, I would like some definites about what is appropriate as far as credits, so that I can do them correctly. At this time, I am not posting credits and I am reluctant to begin again, because I am not sure of whether it will get moved or not.

Thank you for your consideration. I do appreciate it. :) IMO, however, I think that Renderosity tends to worry too much about making EVERYBODY happy. That's impossible, and in trying to achieve this, the site moderation and policies are inconsistant. I suspect that most of the member's issues are not necessarily with policy, but with the inconsitancies. Look at your numbers. You have a lot of members, but what percentage actually participates in the forums? What percentage participates in the galleries, and how many just come here to shop? How many just browse the galleries? You aren't going to make everybody happy. But you can soothe a lot of ruffled feathers by striking a balance and being consistant. Personally, I like the idea of making Product Showcase a genre and adding a filter. I have found that I missed a lot of really nice previews because I thought that Product Showcase was a genre to begin with, and never went directly to the Showcase Gallery.

Speaking as a customer -- on this issue, my attitude is 100% libertarian.

I like to see examples of Marketplace products used in the galleries.

Let the merchants post all of the gallery images that they desire to -- within the standard TOS posting limits. And let the merchants use their own products in their images, if they like.

I haven't followed any of the discussions on this issue until recently.

Frankly, I don't know why anyone would have a problem with a vendor using his/her own work in an image. That strikes me as odd.

Give the merchants their "artistic freedom" -- as a vendor is still an artist. If something in a given image happens to be a self-created commercial product, so what? This will only help potential buyers to get a better idea of what the product can do for them in the customer's own renders.

Personally, I see that as a plus.

Personally, All of my products are made for me to do ART of my own with. That's why they are full of such variety. If I have to quit making ART with my own products because they will be moved to another catagory that is pretty darn silly. I enjoy seeing how the original artist that created the product used it. This is an ART site. Our products sell to other ARTISTS. ARTISTS want to see the resources available for them to create with. If you pulled all the ads out of fashion magazines, leaving only the few photoshoots without credits the magazine would be quite empty.

I'm actually waiting to upload two products till I hear the outcome of this.
Personally, the only thing I'll accept is asking merchants not to use "coming soon" or "now in the mp", etc. If they ask us to "downplay" our own work or ask us not to credit our products I won't let this site profit a cent from them.

FWIW, I'll add my .02 worth as a non-vendor. The regular galleries fill up extremely fast already so that viewing them becomes tedious. I don't particularly want to see ads. Having said that, there is no reason that vendors should be penalized for using their own item in a piece of artwork, if the intention was for it to be art. If it's intended to be an ad, it belongs in the product showcase gallery. Probably the only way to determine whether it's an ad is if the vendor, or beta-tester gives credit saying something along the lines of "Now in the Marketplace", "Soon to be in the Marketplace", or something to that effect. If the vendor gives themselves credit by saying this model, texture, etc was by them and that's all they say; then it belongs in the regular gallery. People such as myself will be able to go to that vendors store if one chooses and see if that item is available. And if it isn't; then I suppose one could IM the vendor and ask when, or where to get said item. That could be a lot of trouble for the vendors if they get lots of IMs, but at least they would know they have an interested party! But in the end, as someone else said better than I could, you aren't going to please everybody. Just be consistant across the board.

My opinion as a customer: I'm about as likely to head for the Product Showcase Forum as I am to go to the Special Interest area at DAZ. It's a waste of bandwidth. Ever wonder why there's no "all commercials, all the time" channels on your cable or satellite network? Because no one would watch it. I'm SO much more likely to buy a product that I saw used in an art render I like. I'll see the ads when I go to the product page. That's when I want to see ads.

My opinion as a merchant: wtf??? Unless I start sounding like Ron Popeil, what is the problem? As every other merchant has said, "I credit other people, I should be allowed to credit myself." I made it, I own it, I'm using it. And if I credit myself, and someone heads to my store and buys it, you get your 50%. So it's good for you. Now if you start seeing, "New and Improved, Just call our Toll Free Number!" Yeah, it's an ad. We all get that. Please stop slapping restrictions and conditions on merchants. Clarify the exisiting rules, but don't turn this into a bureaucracy. I've been jumping through an awful lot of hoops around here, and frankly my legs are getting tired.

-Heidi

ok time for me to but in with typos and all in 90% of the images i do i use my own stuff i my self LOVE to see a image by some one when all the things they have used are there own it add respect to the image and the maker and makes me want to buy the stuff but i dont goto the PS gal y do i not go there coz the images there are for stuff being soled i like to see the art of the things made so imo if the maker wants to post in the poser gal and use 50 things he/she made and credit ever darn one of them have at it post it show it off as art not a promo now to me a promo is "a texture a nude all side image" now if thats posted in the poser gal i can see it moved but once you add feel and post work to it its art and dont move it from were the artist put it in a way i dont think any one has the right to move someones art from were they post it if its art let it stay if its a promo with no post work then it should be in the PSgal jmho P.S not fixing my typos i like them that way :P

As a customer, I check the Product Showcase almost everytime I check in here. If I want to see what's available for sale, I look in the Marketplace or the Product Showcase.

If an artist wants to display their work they should be able to do that. If the artist happens to be a merchant they should still be able to post their artwork in the appropriate gallery like everyone else. If I see an image in a gallery that's by a merchant and it has a list of credits that say "This by me", "That by me", "The Other Thing by me" then that looks like a promo to me and promo images belong in the Product showcase. If they want to leave off the credits, that elimates the promotional aspect and that image should be allowed in any gallery.

Art by a merchant for expression is art, art by a merchant calling attention to that merchants products is a promotion.

That's my 2 cents.

"Art" by Sixus1

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=722473

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=404963

http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=409577

Product Promo Images:

http://market.renderosity.com/mp/SoftgoodImage29952a.jpg

http://market.renderosity.com/mp/SoftgoodImage28723a.jpg

http://market.renderosity.com/mp/SoftgoodImage26805a.jpg

All of the images use primarily if not exclusively Sixus1 products. I think that the differences are obvious.

I have seen many fantastic images created by merchants using their own products exclusively or prominently in the images and it isn't fair for these great artists to have to worry about where they can and can't post thier artwork. Why punish those who create and share content with everyone ?

So, the problem is where is the line drawn and who decides and WHY ??

I still vote for the deletion of the Product Showcase Gallery. It would save valuable moderator man hours and hurt feelings. But if you wanted to put the decision in the hands of the viewers and they get annoyed with what they feel is promo spam or whatever.....how about an "Ignore Artist" option ?

I don't have a problem with the Product Showcase Forum.

Another 2 cents thrown into the pot.

--Rebekah--

"Ever wonder why there's no "all commercials, all the time" channels on your cable or satellite network? Because no one would watch it." Have you ever seen the DAZ galleries? Not only are they "all commercials, all the time", but people trip over themselves to get in there, haunt them until new images are posted, and brag about getting accepted. You must list everything by DAZ if possible (please be as thorough as you can), you can not list anything by anybody else, and when the image is shown... there are links to each and every individual DAZ item. "All images accepted into the DAZ Monthly Gallery must include at least one product offered in the DAZ Online Store" "Images are judged based on subject matter, use of DAZ models, image quality, lighting, composition, technique, and whether the image is appropriate for a large audience." Basically... how well does your art sell our products! What is the difference between this and the Product Showcase? Perception. You are "invited" into the DAZ gallery and "relegated" or "banished" into the Product Showcase. Maybe if the Showcase was recast as a juried show, where you were forced to link to the RMP before you could even upload your candidate and where only the best of the artist/merchants could show off their products... maybe then the merchants would look at the Showcase as the prime marketing tool it ought to be instead of sniffling about oubliettes and unfair treatment. I know that if I were a merchant, I'd be taking advantage of it... more marketing freedom than you get at DAZ (you can credit your friends and colleagues as well as your own name) and fewer artistic restrictions (Michelangelo wouldn't be able to post over there... the Creation of Man has naked breasts). "All commercials, all the time". I wonder what their hit rate is like? Carolly

something I just noticed I had an image moved to product showcase that got sorted and it was moved back. A day or so after I posted that image I posted one intended for product showcase and posted it there. I just looked at the stats for each of these images accidental one - 361 views 46 comments (most before moving) actual one - 395 views 31 comments the most comments before this i received on a showcase image was 16 and I always viewed the showcase as a wasted upload. I am getting more comments for each image I post so am not sure this proves anything as I am also on a lot more fav artists lists than I was when I posted the last one. I am not against the showcase gallery just would like to credit myself with creating the stuff I use in the normal credit section or if not an item for sale and not going to be in the normal note section. I started creating characters for personal use and was talked into selling them now they help feed my poser habit lol just my view on things will sit back and behave again now Chris :o)

"If I see an image in a gallery that's by a merchant and it has a list of credits that say "This by me", "That by me", "The Other Thing by me" then that looks like a promo to me and promo images belong in the Product showcase. If they want to leave off the credits, that elimates the promotional aspect and that image should be allowed in any gallery."

I disagree. If a merchant can credit PURCHASED items but not their own hard work then this site will be doing exactly what hauksdottir has an apparent problem with DAZ about.
Why should a merchant downplay their hard work?

If merchants are told to not credit their own hard work, work that is bringing in $ to this site I guarantee they will lose merchants because that's quite a betrayal.

Have you ever seen the DAZ galleries? Nope. I don't go in there. I know that if I were a merchant, I'd be taking advantage of it... Oh, I post to the ps gallery. No one ever looks at the stuff I put there, though. I get MANY more hits in the other galleries. I disagree. If a merchant can credit PURCHASED items but not their own hard work then this site will be doing exactly what hauksdottir has an apparent problem with DAZ about. Why should a merchant downplay their hard work? Completely agreed. -Heidi

Rebekah,

Those are clearly distinguishable. Are you SURE that you don't want a job as a moderator here? :hopeful grin: "Wreckage" (which I hope has a violence tag, because it definately has an ouch factor) shows your critters doing something... there is a story going on, some emotion being conveyed. The aliens in your promo piece are showing off their dark eyes and wrinkled hide but there isn't the same sort of communication.

Carolly

Message edited on: 08/23/2004 05:10

Carolly says ... :I know that if I were a merchant, I'd be taking advantage of it..." If you WERE a merchant, and had worked on creating a product or products for months, took pride and joy in your work as well as your art to show it off, perhaps then you might better understand the destruction being done to merchants/artists with all these arbitrary rules and opinions. When everything becomes a battle or a big discussion, people don't want to participate and then everyone loses.. Carol

Read Animal Farm. :O)

--Those are clearly distinguishable. Are you SURE that you don't want a job as a moderator here? :hopeful grin:-- HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Do I look crazy to you? ;p --"Wreckage" (which I hope has a violence tag, because it definately has an ouch factor) -- You know, I don't think that it does....I guess I wasn't thinking of it that way. I will double check and flag. --shows your critters doing something... there is a story going on, some emotion being conveyed. The aliens in your promo piece are showing off their dark eyes and wrinkled hide but there isn't the same sort of communication. -- It seems that the problem comes in when someone is a merchant who creates textures they enjoy doing pin-ups. It reeks of promo to some and the line can be hazy if you have to make a distinction. And I that is why I still think that the Product Showcase Gallery should go bye-bye. The only thing that can ever come from forcing people to have to separate themselves is anger and hurt. I wish you luck sorting all of this out, but I got to get back to work. --Rebekah--

I'm not a merchant, but I do pictures with products that merchants give me. I do a picture the way I want to, and give credit at the bottom.(Recently) With all this is it art or not, has got my head spinning. I use to feel I could explain, used only part of such and such pkg.and it's coming soon. Or I just say hugs to merchant's name. I don't want my pictures ever to be pulled and put in Product showcase just because I write "Coming SOON". This can not be left as a judgement call. We need to know the rules ahead of time. But what I mean by a judgement call, if I was doing a pin up and it was very plain with only one merchance product, but was beautiful, then it's art. This is a no win deal.

I disagree. If a merchant can credit PURCHASED items but not their own hard work then this site will be doing exactly what hauksdottir has an apparent problem with DAZ about.
Why should a merchant downplay their hard work?

No offense meant but, of course you would disagree...you're a merchant. Nobody thinks merchant's should downplay their hard work...that's why there is a Product Showcase, so merchant's can display their hard work! And what work is it they want highlighted anyway...their art or their product?

If merchants are told to not credit their own hard work, work that is bringing in $ to this site I guarantee they will lose merchants because that's quite a betrayal.

That sure sounds like the focus is on the money. Pardon me for saying this, but that sounds pretty callous. As much as we appreciate the support the sales of products give to this site, we members don't exist to line the pockets of the merchants. If all you care about is finding another way to lure customers to your store...IMHO feel free to take your store elsewhere, but don't expect all of us to follow you with our money.

If the galleries become bloated with promotional images, non-merchants mights see that as a betrayal and since they are the ones that spend the $, merchants might lose sales. We have enough problems with images falling behind now because of the current volume of posts even with the one post a day limit.

Crediting products is a choice, it's not a requirement. There is no rule in the TOS that says you have to credit someone else's product if you can't credit your own.

I see the issue as one of prioritizing. If what is important is the art...then displaying said art should be what is paramount, and crediting products should be of little import if it means getting the art into the galleries.

If, on the other hand, credits are what's important...it sounds like the priority is promoting the products and not the art, and product promotions belong in the Product Showcase Gallery. Edited only to add the underline and bold text to the word purchased to make the quote accurate. ;) Message edited on: 08/23/2004 17:42

"And what work is it they want highlighted anyway...their art or their product?" Well, when your product is your artform, there really is no difference. For me, figure creation IS an art. For many of us we are selling our ART in order to create in income that allows us to creat more ART. For a working artist, and all of the merchants here are exactly that, the act of selling your art is tantamount to your success and, IMO, cannot be seperated from the state of being an artist. That is my fundamental problem with the Product Showcase and this whole debate: my figures are, to me, my art. They are also my product. By delineating between the two you inadverntently will prioritize for the artist/merchant whether they like it or not. That is why I post my artwork here so rarely: for the most part those of use selling our art in it's many forms have already been relegated to the status of "product pushers" and are often time dismissed when the topic of art comes around. -Les

You know this all seems pretty absurd, to mix up the art and the words about the art or image. People viewing the galleries have a CHOICE. We can choose to look at the art/image and NOT read the copy. Just like we can turn on the TV and look at the images and turn off the sound. For someone to come along and tell us exactly what we can and can't say about our art/image is just plain wrong. It is also wrong to tell us what is art. Art is the picture - the words underneath the image are of little importance, except to the person who CHOOSES to read them because they are interested. Some put poetry under their images, others lyrics, others stories, etc. others explanations about products used, or whatever. It is a fun way to share information and communicate with one another. No one is forcing me to read the copy. If I just want to look at and enjoy the art, that's what I do. SO WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL??? Carol

You have to remember, the reason the Product Showcase was created in the first place. Members were not happy with the amount of promotional images that were filling up the galleries and pushing the art to the back. I think it's valid to be concern that the line between what is art and what is promotion will be taken advantage of.

I have a lot of respect for you and Rebekah, Les. I certainly understand what you are saying. It seems to me that when you reach a pinacle of talent as you have, you don't need to say "Such and Such created by me"...people already know. When you have a reputation and recognizable talent like yours, some things don't need to be said. Meerly putting your name on your image is enough.

For many of us we are selling our ART in order to create in income that allows us to creat more ART. For a working artist, and all of the merchants here are exactly that, the act of selling your art is tantamount to your success and, IMO, cannot be seperated from the state of being an artist.

I think it's fantastic that you are able to generate an income from something you enjoy doing, and it's even better if you can be a success at it. The galleries are geared to those that want to display their creations, not market them, and the galleries existed long before merchants did. It would be unfair to change the character of the galleries into another marketing tool for merchants.

Selling your art is tantamount to your success and that's why you have a personal website with a store and forums, and a store in the marketplace, and a Product Showcase and Product Showcase Gallery and a Home Page that has links to your store on this site. People know where to find your products when they want to buy them and people know where to look when they want to see what new products you have to offer.

The galleries should be a place of ART for ART's sake, not another commercialized arena.

SO WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL

The big deal is I don't want to be tricked into wasting my time looking at a promotional image after promotional image instead of images that were created for the love of the ART. My concern is that this is something that could easily be taken advantage of and misused and abused. There is a fine line between a merchants displaying his ART for the sake of ART and displaying his ART for the sake of sales. That line could easily become blurred.

"There is a fine line between a merchants displaying his ART for the sake of ART and displaying his ART for the sake of sales. That line could easily become blurred."

It is unfair to ask a member here to not credit their own work while expecting them to credit what they've purchased here simply because they are a merchant. Painting a texture, modeling, and putting it all together with postwork IS art. If someone didn't have the desire to create... they wouldn't. To ask a mod to judge the mindset of a member isn't something I would trust to be fair and anything beyond asking people not to use phrases like "coming soon" or "now in MP" is exactly that.

"It is unfair to ask a member here to not credit their own work while expecting them to credit what they've purchased here simply because they are a merchant."

Who expects them to credit what they've purchased here? Giving credit for items used in a render is a choice not a mandate. If you want to create...create, what's more important creating and posting or adding that list of credits to your posted image?

I'd be suspicious of any merchant that constantly posted images using only their products and crediting every product of theirs in the image. Sounds like marketing promotion to me.

People ask Mods to judge the mindset of members all the time, and they do it...that's how images get moved or removed, how members get warnings, and how threads get moved, deleted, and locked. Mods do a pretty good job of it too.

You know...I really can see both sides of the issue here. Personally, as long as it wasn't overdone and products weren't hyped, it would probably be ok...I just don't think it's something that wouldn't be taken advantage of fairly quickly and I think you'd see a lot of images that would be thinly disguised product promotions.

Two cents: "A, B, C by someone else, X, Y, Z by me" = OK "A, B, C by someone else, X, Y, Z by me, now on sale at..." = not OK I make some of my own stuff, but lord knows it isn't saleable yet. So when I use my own stuff, of course I credit myself. I haven't gotten guff for it, 'cause it's not for sale. If I were to perfect it and offer it for sale, it would still be the same picture, with the same text - no one looking at it after that date would know anything had changed. So to me, that's really an important point - if they don't say it's for sale, no one just looking at it would know! Thus, it doesn't come off as a "commercial". That said, I am one thousand percent behind Grey Tower's desire not to see the galleries fill up with what are essentially advertisements. While some ads approach real art, that's not generally what they're about. Sixus1 shows the clear and obvious distinction between the two approaches. One is the combination of many elements to best effect as a total picture; the other is a sole focus on the key product. Indeed, for an ad you don't want too much "other stuff" distracting from your for-sale item. Admittedly, the line between "ad" and "art" can be blurred, absent promotional text like "available in MP" or "coming soon" or whatnot. If, indeed, the ad is artistic enough, what the hey, no one's going to complain if it stays in the main gallery. But yes, it is a value judgement from the mods, whom I don't envy. What might make the process seem a little less arbitrary is to distinguish a set of criteria, so that the mod can say, "Well, this picture seemed to violate principles 3, 6, and 7, therefore..." Just a few rambling thoughts.

Grey-Tower. SO WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL??? Have you read all the threads concerning this topic? The art is the BIG DEAL. We, and a lot of others, work our fannys off creating the ART, whether it uses one of our products, ten of our products, or someone else's products. And every 3d image uses some kind of product or it wouldn't exist. So what's the big deal about telling people what product was used to create the art? Is art now judged on products used, copy written, or the image itself? And who judges? The mods? And their moods? Carol

"If you want to create...create, what's more important creating and posting or adding that list of credits to your posted image?"

I agree, yet the system is in place. The practice is standard and what's being considered isn't dropping that system but asking merchants not to add their own personal credits. I don't accept that as the right, and more importantly fair way to go about this.

Message edited on: 08/23/2004 20:45

Why not just do what DAZ did? Add in a "Commercial" tag, for images and forum posts. The Product Showcase Forum feels quite barren, yannow. BTW, when exactly did the Product Showcase Forum and gallery first open? You can't judge by "first post", there were a NUMBER of posts and images dumped there when they first opened... I'd like to compare my sales stats with the date they opened, just for my own personal peace of mind...

I have several images that use my products in the galleries here. No one has said boo about it. (I can almost hear them being moved now). I didn't mention any of my products when I posted the images. I just let them stand or fall on their own merit. I create stuff that I want and I also happen to sell it. To suggest that people who happen to sell stuff here should be disallowed from using their own products in gallery images is farcical. I can see the point about blatant promo renders and advertising copy attached to them, but if images are going to be moved purely because a merchant uses their own stuff, then things are just going to get really silly really quickly.

So what's the big deal about telling people what product was used to create the art? Is art now judged on products used, copy written, or the image itself? It has to do with intent. If the intent of the image was artistic expression, no problem. If the intent is product promotion, then it doesn't belong in the galleries. And who judges? The mods? And their moods? Yes, if they are good enough to judge everything else, they're good enough to judge this. The practice is standard and what's being considered isn't dropping that system but asking merchants not to add their own personal credits. I admit asking merchants not to add personal credits for their products could be a bit extreme. The issue is really expecting merchants to police themselve and post ART and not promotions for their products. I think many would stay within those limits, but many will not. Product Showcase and the Product Showcase gallery were created for product promotions. If merchants want to post in the galleries, let the Mods/Admins set rules and standards to keep the galleries from becoming a marketing tool and to prevent the situation from being taken advantage of.

The Product Showcase Forum feels quite barren, yannow In some respects, that should be a clue, folks. I mean, this place is driven by sales, no question about it. And we apparently love to buy. So why should such a resource as the PS be viewed as freaking Siberia? What is it about that forum that drives people away instead of inviting them in? Maybe if that key question can be addressed, we might all get somewhere, and this discussion about the galleries will become moot.

This is getting pushed way back again. Keep the showcase for the new products and promos. Poser art Gallery's is for art, we have always listed the products at the bottom. Why not continue this?

Sounds like marketing promotion to me. So what? Maybe if this place gave more marketing opportunities, no one would feel the need to push the envelope in this area. And before you mods get snappy about that, you ought to think about what marketing opportunities exist for a non-best seller/ non-top 30 merchant, non-exclusive product. Obviously if Les or Rebekah posts an image, they probably used at least some of their own products. But what if I buy one of their products? Not everybody is going to know that they made the product unless I credit them. So I get a million IM's saying, "where did you get that gryphon, minotaur, etc.?" Sorry, I can't say or I'll get sent to the PS gallery. This is just getting more and more ridiculous. And FTR, I've never had anything moved to PS, never even had anything questioned. And I have attempted to credit everything I use in each image, because I LIKE the products I use, whether I made them or not. -Heidi

ah Poser so much fun..

This is being discussed within the moderation team. I hope to have a resolution in the very near future. Clint

I'm hoping for the abolishing of the PS entirely, and the introduction of a "Commercial" tag... non-top 30 merchants rarely get responses or even once-overs, and it leaves us feeling like we're left out in the cold.

Agree with Valandar, or perhaps a "Product Promotions" section in each category, e.g.: Poser - Product Promotions - "This is a pic of my new character!" Photoshop - Product Promotions - "I made this pic with my new brushes, available now!" I think someone suggested this already... I would definitely vote for this.

I agree with Valandar, too.

PoserPros has a separate product showcase forum and the merchants over there don't seem to be complaining about it. Maybe you should check with them to see what's working for them...and some of them do showcase their products in this forum too.

If this is because you think you're losing sales due to poor exposure...perhaps the problem is a bloated marketplace, too many merchants, too many products, high prices, and only so many dollars to go around. No amount of exposure is going to combat that.

Not really. This has more to do with merchants (and non merchants) having creative renders moved from the gallery they were intended for, to a gallery for promotional renders that is rarely visited simply because they are using their own products in their images and having the audacity (tic) to take credit for their own work.

Poser Pros has only one gallery. Merchants are perfectly welcome to post promotional images there. The issue here is that some artists who were also merchants felt that they shouldn't have their images moved to a gallery which most people never visit, simply because they use their own products in the image. bonni

"Not really. This has more to do with merchants (and non merchants) having creative renders moved from the gallery they were intended for..." In part, it also has to do with wanting to do away with the Product Showcase and Product Showcase Gallery. elizabyte, I know they are welcome to do so, but I was refering to the Boutique Showcase which is the equivalent of the Product Showcase here, not the gallery.

My point was that it's apples and oranges. The issue at hand here is not the posting of commercial things to this forum. It is of mods moving images that merchants feel have legitimate artistic merit to a forum which gets very little traffic, simply because the merchant used their own product in the image. Some of the images moved didn't even have commercial products in them, they were simply things that the person noted they'd done themselves. Some had nothing more sinister than a link to the item in a list of other links. The trick here is finding the balance, and merchants still haven't been told where that line is. bonni

Yes, I know that bonni. But the issue of promos in the galleries and the idea of a "commercial tag" on images to permit posting of promos in the galleries has also been raised. Reading all the posts in a thread gives one so much more information! ;oP I've said my piece...it's up to the PTB at this point.