Yep, familiar with those. My point was that if you're going to market an "Authentic Japanese" character...well, I have no problem with a dark skin MAT or texture...BUT it shouldn't be the only option you have, if you still want to live up to the title of "authentic." Heck, even most of the "Goth girl" figures have options for normal skin tones. :) BTW Khrys, I think you put out a nice set with Jie Jie!

Thank you, Gabriel. :) I'm working on a Japanese female, now, for Stephanie Petite, and so far, so good. Would anyone like to see screenshots of the morph and offer feedback on what needs fixed? I'm always open for that! :D

Ooooh I just thought of something. What if there were a darker and more insidious reason behind this trend of Asian characters not looking Asian? Humor me for a moment...

OK many people consider Asian "stuff" strange and/or exotic (particularly Asian women). So....

What if people are making Asian characters (the majority of them being female) because they are attracted to the "exotic mystique of the far east" but at the same time, they fear what is different...so they make something just different enough to be considered exotic...but not so different that it alienates anyone or makes them "uncomfortable."

In essence, different--but the same.

And this all works on a subconscious level because it's such an ingrained and inherent mentality, making it that much more sinister and insidious.

Hmmm...the conspiracy theorist in me likes it. But while I've always considered myself to be a cynical person, this is too much for even me to really consider. OK enough crazy talk, back to prentending I'm working!

Edited for: typo...yep no other reason...typo....really

Message edited on: 12/21/2005 19:55

lips do not have to be so pouty.

Here is a close up of an Oriental eye. In my opinion,
eyes from the Orient have a shape commonly called "almond".
They are not round or plump-oval like eyes from the Occident
Additionally, there are three specific factors, numbered on the illustration.

1. you've got to show the fold, which looks like a
   curved line. It has to have a very specific curve.
2. the arch of the inward side of the upper rim.
   It angles down, then has a certain left-hand turn and
   points nearly straight down to the lacrimal
3. the bottom rim has a unique double curve.
   emerging from the lacrimal, it curves up in a small arc before curving back to the rim.

The images below are from my website.
I picked these specific ones because the features
of the eye are fairly clear in them.

::::: Opera :::::

In the images I look at, the fold arches up higher above the upper eye lashes. Also, while you have a slight inkling of the lower rim double curve, you will be suprised by the effect if you bring it out more. Your upper rim does not have the characteristic flattening followed by nearly-straight-down to the lacrimal. That is a sublte feature, but it has a telling effect. ::::: Opera :::::

A/hah/. I see what you mean more closely, now. She's still very much in the work in progress stage, so thank you very much for your feedback. I'm trying to make her as authentic as possible, within my skill.

I like her, Khrys. Keep going '-)

And it's not just the Asian characters that are wrong. Load V3 and turn the 'French' dial in the '+' direction. before long she takes on Asiatic features. Oh and Khrys, I like the way she's looking, though the nose looks odd for some reason I can't yet fathom.

Message edited on: 12/22/2005 16:24

Khrys, If using V3, I found scaling head, hands and feet to 110%, stretching neck and reducing leg length, then reducing body to 93% gets away from V3 for a start. In your modeling app, you can smooth out the joint zones. Profile of face is the tough one. Especially when not using DAZ morphs... I like the effects so far but I know the body will be tough. Got the T shirt.

Attached Link: Original epicanthic fold morph for V1

The epicanthic fold is the result of a genetic mutation in Asians which makes a certain muscle/set of muscles weaker. Eyelids move in three dimensions and change their shape while moving in a way more akin to cloth draping than skeletal hinging, and Poser 4 just did not have the mojo to handle it.

The morph I built took a lot of magnets applied to specific polys and a lot of patience to come as close to a real fold that could open and close without passing through the eyeball. The reason I never did it for Posette was because I discovered the eyeblink morphs weren't symmetrical (no, really) and it wasn't worth my time.

As for the issue of slanting... I thought the same thing until a year ago when I was at the local McDonalds here in Flagstaff AZ. There was a counter girl there with deeply slanted eyes with the epicanthic fold, and it looked remarkable, not ugly. She didn't appear to be Hopi or Navajo, and I couldn't think of a polite way to ask.

As I've said before, you want accurate depictions of genetic diversity, don't expect it from a firm that exists in and apparently only hires from the state of Utah. Remember when we all said Michael 1's head was impossible?

Africa is a continent with enough racial types to make wars like the Hutus/Tutsis painfully real. Kenyans tend towards short, round faces with high browlines; Ethiopians look substantially different. Climatic adjustment, economic traffic, all these make a difference. Four morphs for V3 don't even come close. Add generations of American melting pot and it gets murkier. Richard Pryor on his first visit to Africa asked the locals which tribe he resembled the most; their answer was "Italian."

Watching Hi-5 on TLC, I could tell at a glance that Kimee was either Hawaiian or Filipino. She's both (her surname is Balmiero). During WWII there was a hullabaloo about the "obvious" differences between the Chinese and the Japanese which was as embarrassing as the Germans' racial math. Some differences are real, others aren't.

India is another example. Aishwarya Rai is gorgeous but she's clearly much more Asian/European looking than the average woman in the subcontinent.

Racial types are as subject to the Uncanny Valley as any other character design, only the negative reaction is experienced by a more focused group.

"Aishwarya Rai" Ah yes, one of my desktop wallpapers :-) I remember some high end 3D figure modeling application that touted some kind of software "genetics" system that could provide inheritance and all kinds of amazing sounding features. With something like that and a good set of base types, you could go wild in creating all kinds of racial mixtures that are probably still illegal in some states.

In the images I look at, the fold arches up higher above the upper eye lashes.

Probably due to surgery. "Double eyelid" surgery is as popular among Japanese models, actresses, etc., as boob jobs are in Hollywood. While some Japanese women do naturally have "double eyelids," most do not. Often, you do not see any fold at all, or a fold just on the inner half of the eye, the eyelid is so small.

This surgery has been popular since the '50s. While it's true it was inspired by American ideals of beauty, it is not turning Asian eyes into Caucasian eyes. The results do not look remotely Caucasian, and some Japanese women do naturally have "double eyelids."

I would like to see a profile or 3/4 view, to better see what the eyelid looks like.

And I agree about the nose being off. IMO, it's the part that most needs adjusting. The bridge is too broad. This is disguised a bit by the overly long eyebrows. I think most women have brows that start at roughly the inner corner of the eye; if not, they pluck them. If the brows began at the inner corner, you would see clearly that the eyes are too far apart. And the reason for this is the bridge of the nose is too broad. While Asian noses do tend to be broad at the tip, they narrow (as well as flatten) at the bridge.

BTW, I do like the brows a lot, aside from the length. Nice, natural, dark brows. :) Message edited on: 12/23/2005 19:47