Hi all, could anyone give me some information as to what the best software would be for me to create a cartoon.I'm very familiar with Poser 6 though i've heard Maya is the software to use.I'm very confused as i don't know what to decide upon. Also can Maya create backgrounds and scenery within itself or do i need to use another program such as Vue Infinite? Finally, how does Maya stand up against Poser 6 & Vue Infinite in terms of amimation quality and ease of use? Thanks guys....

Look at the price of maya and that will help you decide, LOL Maya is more a high end 3D creation tool that a displayer.

Maya is high-end professional 3D CG studio software for the most part (think LOTRs, Star Wars). It is expensive and has a learning curve, well, just think about a rocket launch. ;)

Maya can probably do anything with MEL scripting and third-party plugins, but are you being paid $50/hr to do this? Then reconsider.

Not to belittle Poser here, in this forum, but there really is no comparison. Poser is low-end 3D software - specialized at best, if one must. Vue Infinite is medium-end 3D software, but e-On looks to be moving it up in the ranks.

I'd say compare the considered software (Maya has a PLE version) and compare prices and then decide on your budget, skill-level, and requirements. I probably could recommend Cinema 4D for its easy learning curve and relatively inexpensive cost. The base package, for like $700, has modeling, rendering, and character animation. The problem is that if you find that you like it, you may be adding on modules which can start racking up the overall software costs. There is a demo for this as well (www.maxon.net). ETA: And to be fair, there is also SoftImage XSI which is also relatively inexpensive and contains a wide variety of 3D tools (modeling, rendering, animation).

Message edited on: 03/08/2006 08:04

My recommendation would be Lightwave, since they have a bundle with vue 5 infinite for free right now. Something to consider, making cartoons takes a LOT of time. Let me repeat that: Making cartoons takes a LOT OF TIME. If you buy a high end 3d application like Cinema, Lightwave or Maya, you'll be looking at: 3d modelling 3d rigging uv mapping textureing scene setup rendering options editing final renders overlaying effects work sound editing sound layering voice recording, and dubbing. Each one of these tasks can takes a LONG time to learn, and years to master. Pro studios have hundereds of people working on one cartoon for years.. boil all that work down, and then add it to one person's shoulders. That said, simple cartoons can be done in poser, if you want to use pre-existing characters and content, however again you are looking at a learning curve of 2 years to get good at poser, IF you work with it daily. (There's just a lot of "stuff" to learn.) And while that might sound daunting, a child can make a simple animation in poser in a few minutes. With cartoons, it's not just playing around though, but following a script, and scene layout, which takes more time.

As mentioned above there simply is no comparison. Poser is an awesome tool for what it does, but it is not really a "prime time" level general purpose 3d tool. For one thing, it has no modellign abilities to speak of, and it has basically no ability to handle large scenes. The "foundation" version of XSI is about the best all around value these days. 3DS Max is good, but expensive. Lightwave is seriously out of date and Maya is (thanks to its purchase by the folks who make 3DS Max) on very shaly ground. http://www.softimage.com/Products/Xsi/v5/

"Also can Maya create backgrounds and scenery within itself or do i need to use another program such as Vue Infinite?"

Sure, Maya can create fully animated, rich content environments of it's own, without the need for 3rd party software like Vue.

However, ILM recently announced the addition of Vue Infinite into their pipeline for creating environments, and not just for mat painting, but fully animated CG environments, and rendered entirely in Vue. If it's good enough for ILM, it's got to be good enough for you, right? ;-)

I use 3dsmax myself, and it's also perfectly capable of doing everything I need from start to finish. Environments, character animation, etc. However, when you make the financial investment by purchasing hi-end software, you're also investing a great deal of your time. You will certainly need time and patience to learn your new software, which undoubtedly will have a much higher learning curve than Poser or Vue. Message edited on: 03/08/2006 11:31

"Lightwave is seriously out of date" How do you figure that? It's been the #1 3d appication for television production now (and still is) for the last 15 years. And many of the models from the last 3 star wars films were modeled in Lightwave.

"Lightwave is seriously out of date" News to me too Gareee.

And Y'know...sitting here playing around with LW9 beta makes me wonder what's out of date?

"...what the best software would be for me to create a cartoon." If you don't care about canned content ala Poser then you might want to take a look at Animation Master at hash.com. For $250 to $300, depending where you buy it, you'll have a wonderful animation toolset. Rigging, a task I loathe in any poly app I've tried as a hobbyist, is comparatively easy in AM and very powerful. There are quite a few Maya pros who use AM for their personal projects. Its a great tool set for a 'one-man-show'. Probably the biggest downside to AM is that you would be locked in the world of Hash patches, which drives some people to distraction.

I remember Hash patches from my old Disney days! They wrote the utility we used on the floats to play computer animation triggered by a midi event. They were writing the utility specifically for Disney for the Amigas, and getting a working version from them was a nightmare. (That is about 15 years ago or so...)

...cool ;) Yea. Hash has been around a long time in computer years. They only recently hired a brilliant 'new' guy. Prior to that they had had the SAME employees for 15 or 20 years. Maybe I'm just gettin old and crotchety but that impresses me.

Message edited on: 03/08/2006 15:06

I had Animation Master back in '97 I believe it was. Program was interesting, but I couldn't get my head around modeling everything in patches. I always ended up with noticable creases that were difficult to remove. Poly modeling seemed more my forte. The only thing I don't like about Hash is that they don't seem to play well with others, and if you say one negative thing about their software, users often go ballistic. Even Martin Hash himself was against A:M having a forum on CGTalk, so it was removed. He just doesn't seem to accept critique about his product, or the work produced with it, very well. ;-P

Hehe. Yep. You're right, Max. Then again, Martin Hash is a brilliant guy. Brilliant guys are frequently flakey ;) Hash patches actually made me angry when I first used them :) It was just hard 'unlearning' poly habits. Now I much prefer them over polys for organic modeling, but man, it was maddening getting used to them. I think it would actually be easier to learn Hash patches if a guy had no previous experience with polys.

I wouldn't recommend poser for cartoons at this point. perhaps v.7 will have better shading and linework functions, but at present, none of the free toon shaders, nor the similar shader set at rdna, will give one a commercially acceptable result IMVHO.

I just did some snoopin at the Hash site. Pretty cool looking software for $299 for sure. Lip synching, HDRI, and I especially liked that "decal Uv-ing" with the fish jpeg on the flash demo movie. Some nice artwork there as well.

I thought I read somewhere that South Park uses 3d Studio Max to make their cartoons. I wonder what software if any is used in O'grady. Does anyone know?

(...oh. Max. You realize that if you still have that registered version of AM from 1997 you can upgrade to the latest verson for 99 bucks? Love that AM upgrade path. Skip as many versions as you like, upgrade 10 years later for 99 bucks. lol.)

I wish that all software companies had that policy! :)

"(...oh. Max. You realize that if you still have that registered version of AM from 1997 you can upgrade to the latest verson for 99 bucks? Love that AM upgrade path. Skip as many versions as you like, upgrade 10 years later for 99 bucks. lol.)"

Are you serious? They'll allow an upgrade dating back that long? That's amazing. Actually, I still do have the software somewhere about. I haven't used it in a loooong time though. They also sent a video tutorial on vhs back then. I remember because my computer at the time was in one room, and my TV in another. To do some of the examples they were demonstrating on the video, I had to keep pausing my VCR, running into the other room and make a few mouse moves, then back I ran to the TV again. LOL.

"I thought I read somewhere that South Park uses 3d Studio Max to make their cartoons."

South Park uses Maya. However, 3dsmax was used for the cell shading in Ghost in the Shell 2, and Ghost in the Shell-based series, "Stand Alone Complex", among other things. Message edited on: 03/08/2006 16:28

"Are you serious?" Yes. Any registered version of AM right back to version one can upgrade for 99 bucks. I probably won't upgrade every year, but it's so cheap that I don't need to use it much to justify upgrading now and then.

Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=2139

I didn't get the e-mail telling me that LightWave was now out of date. I suppose I'll have to stop using it then.

Hey look, Lightwave users are welcome to continue using it. This is an OPINION question, and I gave an opinion. Like it, hate it whatever.

It's possible the new 9.0 version of LW will bring it up to date - but even Newtek themselves knwo that 8.5 is weak and showing it's age...

From Newtek: "Now, we get to a personal favorite of mine: rendering. Tremendous gains have been made in rendering since version 8.5. We have completely replaced the old ray-tracing engine, and have added a new, state-of-the-art ray-tracer."

The page goes on to list as "new features" for LW9 things have have b een in XSI and Max (maybe Maya too, don;t know) for a while now.

I like Newtek, I've been a fan since the first version of Lightwave and other products for the Amiga - but 8.5 has been showing it's age and Newtek knows it. Hopefully LW9 bridges that gap. Being sarcastic at me isn't going to change the problem though :)

Poser was my entrance into the 3D world and I am currently learning Maya. Really I think it boils down to what workflows works for you in order to meet your deadlines. I have decided to take a two year detour to graze over Maya's features (which require you to forget everything that you've previously learned - after that everything's pretty easy). It seemes that some things that can be done easily in Poser require several steps in Maya. But overall Maya could offer you more power and control for animations, is a more complete package and is more marketable if you're looking to join a studio or something.