I'm not sure how to proceed here. Am pulling my models out of the Marketplace, and will need to take down my web site that provides the freestuff as well. So, do I just tell you, and then pull them out, or what do I do?

Forester - please check you site mail :)

Nothing in my site mail - that is, I don't have an site mail, dlk30341.

Forester,

It is obvious your feelings were hurt. If any of my posts were responsible, please accept my apology-- though I don't remember addressing you or your models directly. It is also obvious the pride you take to deliver your outstanding models. I, too, sell product on Cornucopia, and I know it's not necessarily easy to make quality models for sale. My points (now mostly censored, in the recently locked topic) were really only about the copy protection issues and my opinion of them.

All of us are certainly able to have our own opinion about this-- if not here, then on other forums. I would encourage you to reread some of the posts and try and not react personally, but from a more rhetorical viewpoint. I believe most all of us wish you to stay on this forum as you've obviously contributed greatly.

Lastly, I'm very sad the moderator of this forum takes it upon himself to adjudicate differences of opinions. I believe you made some very good points, as did others-- sadly some which are not alligned with Vue and e-on are now lost forever. This, unfortunately is NOT the democratic way.

Please hang around a bit longer and see if this won't work itself out. If it doesn't, I'll be glad to walk out the door with you.

best,
Chipp

You found it Forester :) You are a gem :) Relax & stay cool - good advice for all of us :)

Ditto Chipp :) Great post :)

I want to opologize also if I said anything to make you want to remove your models.
   I was only commenting on protection of models at C3D and not any one persons models.
 Check you site mail if you will.
 Please do as Chipp says and hang aorund longer ant lets hope all this gets worked out. :)

I for one hope you decide not to remove your store here. You've got some of the best quality models of water objects available. I've bought a few of them, and I had planned to get some more of them later on, and I'd hate to see them disppear from the MP before I get the chance to get them.

Forester, as I stated in the other post, my particular point is not about you or your models.  This issue is always a hot button issue concerning  the entire universe of software.

If you thought any of my messages were directed to you personally, then please accept my apology.  Not of my position on this issue, but on my possible poor ability to communicate with the few words I allot in arguing my position.  I went to C3D and looked at your items; they are cool, unique, and fill a needed niche in the 3D art community!

As the phrase attributed to Voltaire goes:  I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it.

Hang around!

Thank you all for your very kind comments, and your extraordinary efforts to make sure that there are no misunderstandings between us. Please be assured that I did and do not take the comments of iloco or dlk30341 as being directed at me. They clearly were not. LCBoliou, since I was/am the only vendor attempting to stand up here and provide an explanation of some of the reasons for wishing for copy protection, it is hard to not take 'free-form' comments as being other than directed at me. But you certainly moved to clarify your exuberance quickly, and I did understand. No offense taken. The only comments I take personally are those that were so slyly, but clearly directed at my marketing intelligence, motives or questioned my poor attempt to explain some of the real facts about property theft. The truth, of course, is that the reason my models, and those of some others are priced here at $15.00 or so is because that price represents our effort to maintain and build a community of fellow Vue'ers. The actual market cost of a model that might take 3 weeks to build is best represented on TurboSquid. But I know, as do you, that most of us could never afford the real cost. So, to try to maintain our community, and balance that with the need to have the basic wherewithal to build models, pay taxes and put the occasional loaf on the table, we price things lower than their actual cost. And then, a new or very young person like Phantast comes along, misunderstands the Vue community and Forum for a real marketplace, wants to know why are her 'consumer rights' are or could be being violated, and ends up disparaging the motives and abilities of people trying to sustain the community. It is quite logical and understandable, even if it is just a tad dense. I bear her no grudge either. The rub is that the real costs of trying to build quality models for the Vue community are going up so much that a person like me is forced to try to obtain a little concession out of my partners in this community in order to keep playing my part. Since the "concession" can't be money (we said that we can't afford that), it has to be something in the way of a little extra time or effort on your part. Somehow, I and others like me need the security of knowing that we are going to be able to sell just enough models to keep in business, and to keep providing them to you at a price you can afford. Iloco, you believe that copy-protection schemes always fail. Perhaps you are right. But the whole world is going that way. The world that you and I knew (I really am older than you) has, in fact changed in some ways. And we need to change with it, at least a little. While keeping our heads about what is a little inconvenience versus a terrible imposition, of course. And dlk30341, perhaps E-On will not "come through" with a good-enough solution. I don't know. I just hope, and am bending my efforts in that direction to try to make it so. None of us wants to place an undue burden on people like you. We really are still just one community of like-minded people. But I need to share with you what it feels like for me to work in the environment provided by Cornucopia3D. I do have the security there of knowing that it will be very difficult for people to misuse my models, and not purchase them when they want to use them. I do have sufficient security to keep building models, and more importantly, it appears that I will be able to continue having sufficient income in the future to keep on. I can make plans. I can think about what kinds of things substantially improve our capabilities the Vue environment, such as the River Rapids models, and I can afford to make the investment that it takes to build those. Jeff, those River Rapids models you like came out of the environment Cornuccopia3D was able to provide me. I can afford to stop and build one or even four or five quality freestuff models, just as I did last month. (You all should come by once in a while, just for the freestuff.) I can propose to my fellow vendors that a bunch of us work loosely together on a common theme, ... so that customers can buy things all of a piece, or can fully exploit/explore a scene topic because they know there will be all the kinds of models that might belong to that kind of scene. I'm not saying its perfect. Its so small an arrangement that its delicate. Age and experience make me aware that it must be nurtured carefully, and that it could collapse. You all have taken some pains and considerable personal effort to wish me to stay. I am not deaf, and I am very much humbled by your concern. Here's what I will do in response to all your very good, and completely undeserved well-wishes. I will complete my withdrawal from the Vue 'community' here. I genuinely do need a financially modest, but secure place to work from. It has become clear to us all now that this is not it. But I will not withdraw from the "marketplace" here, per your wishes. Meaning that I will continue to put some models into the Renderosity Marketplace. Just not models specifically designed for Vue, and only models that I have some hope of actually selling to ordinary hobbyists at something near their market value. This gives you some value, I hope, even if it must first be born elsewhere. Plus, you know where else you can go on those rare occasions when it is worth it to you to make the small tradeoff, and I will try to continue to do my best for all of you. Please know that I am very much touched by your warm and human concern, and that we are still all one community, at least in my mind. Respectfully, Pam

Well, shouldn't this post have been a pm? Why post such a direct question to a moderator on a forum? What is the real reason for this post? Agiel, didn't even respond? This post doesn't make direct sense. BTW, Pam I find your prices high for many of your models, regardless of what turbosquid is charging. We should not have to pay extra because it takes a long time for you to model. $18 for 4 classic gates is too high? That couldn't have taken more than hour to model.

cobraEye, do you do any modeling? If not, i suggest you give ity a try to get a feel for the amount of work that goes into making models.

When I got into building models, I pretty much stopped complaining about the prices people charge.

Personally I think Pam's models are resonably priced for the amount of work that goes into them.

Yes, I do. I wouldn't have written otherwise. I am not complaining. I don't want any of those models. I am just observing and commenting. If pam wants to move all her stuff to C3D, I think she will fit in quite well there. This thread should have been deleted from the outset. This thread is not a question to the moderator and is designed for something completely different,

CobraEye,

No doubt Pam's feelings were hurt in the previous shamble of a thread. Your observations regarding the subject of this thread may be somewhat cogent, but your direct attack on Pam certainly doesn't seem necessary.

Obviously, you are allowed your own opinions regarding others models, and for you it's especially easy to dismiss them when you know your own skills and abilities.

I suppose if I could see some of your outstanding models, and the price you charge for them, I could better understand your point of view.

That said, I have to disagree with your comment regarding deleting the thread from the outset. It's certainly easy to skip over (why didn't you?) from the indexed list. I'm not at all happy about the wanton locking and deleting of threads that goes on here at Renderosity.

-Chipp

Well, you are correct. This thread should be deleted now. Its served its purpose. And you've gotten me very interested in your model work, CobraEye. I hope to make it out of the beginner class some day.

I supposed I should see some irony being asked to delete this thread after receiving complaints about doing just that on friday ?

Thread locked.