Okay .. i read most of the messages in this thread..
 I have just one question for the Mod/boss of this site..

Is and im using an example now : is it no longer alowed for Anton to put his link to the APOLLO MAX stuff here in the poser section ?
But he needs to put the links in the R,O freebee section ... 
And its no longer alowed to post a link to a "Freebee over @ DAZ" in the poser forum..

If its No longer alowed then its a sad sad day for this community
I was one of the persons that realy wanted the freebee forum for all to enjoy...
When this is the result ... then i dont want to have anything to do with the freebee forum anymore and i wont post in it ...
Please R'O dont screw a real good thing into a big mess with all your rules please dont...

I realy feel sad this made people "hate/dislike the freebee forum" because of this ..

Chris

I think this is complicated for nothing but personnally I don't mind. It's been quite a while since I announced one of my freebies in this forum anyway because there were too many complaints about freebies announcements in this forum. And it's been quite a while since I announced one of my freebies in the Freestuff area too because it is simply too complicated. I have to prepare the freebie zipfile, create a promo image for it to place on my website then create a thumbnail for the freestuff area (200x200) then create a thumbnail with other dimensions for somewhere else, etc. Just not worth it. I mean we freebie providers don't make money out of our hard work so I think it is unjust to ask more of us than you ask of merchants. Why don't you concentrate on testing Merchants' products instead? How many times do we buy products here (or anywhere else for that matter) and Poser looks ad vitam aeternam for a missing texture or missing geometry or whatever? All because the product had not been tested thoroughly.

I checked (with ShaderWorks), fixed and installed ALL my Poser products. It took me a whole year to accomplish this. And I can say from what I've seen that the "errors" were found more often in commercial products than in freebies. It tells a lot about the QA we get for products that bring money to you (here or elsewhere). So if the commercial products are not thoroughly tested (and they are NOT) it is very difficult for us to believe you don't have an ulterior motive to impose all that stuff on freebie providers.

But it is within your rights.

Got it, I now understand where all this is leading to thanks!

It's just another turn of the screw guys, just another turn of the crew.

*we just are not allowing direct dl links to be posted in the forums that have not went thru the normal testing protocols. I do not see the harm in this?

*well. you've just diallowed the posting of links to ALL the Kazoboro hair models for starters. all the Bat Lab freebies. all the Daz weekly freebies. all the Content Paradise Freebies. all the Sixus1 freebies. all the Japanese website freebies. any and all cool little freebie models that ppl find on the net. any free programs to help us do things like convert models, paint, etc.

none of which go through testing here. none of which go into the freebie section here.

(not that I expect a logical answer to this, I'm just pointing it out)

Khai wrote:
(not that I expect a logical answer to this, I'm just pointing it out)

Well I DO ! .. in the mean time i had some mail sent to me telling me things i dont deserve...
SO i do want a open Yes or No ... on the things you just pointed out..
Are these links you mentioned BANNED or NOT and its not a POSER thing its A FREEBEE thing
loads of great freestuff is offered all over the forums.. 
I wanted the Freebee forum to be a AID to making freestuff and NOT a reason to strike more rules on US ...

If this turns out to be the case  i will make a public Apologize .. 
I have nothing to more do with the site anymore then all other members.

also, is this ban just for the Poser forum? freebie links are posted all over the site!

you've got freebies being posted in

3Dmax
lightwave
bryce
photoshop
trueSpace
maya
Cinema
etc etc
....

are they all being told the same thing? a quick random check in other forums reveals... no. they are not. not a post, nothing.

why is this forum being singled out for this?

infact. where IS the offical notification of this new policy?

we found out due to a member suddenly being told of this. there was no posting anywhere of this rule change.

thats a little underhanded don't you think?

Anyone looking for DADs stuff will be able to find them all listed over at my site. It's rather quiet in my little corner of the world, but you won't have to sign up unless you want some of my special downloads. I haven't posted a freebie here in a while...so guess I'm safe and I'll stick to keeping quiet in my corner.

Realm of Savage Forums

And what about all of us who have put the link to Anton's Apollo Max 2007 in our sig tags?  Is this no longer allowed, either?

I'm with Khai on when this "rule" took effect and why it wasn't announced to ALL of the forums.  I see postings all over the forums for new freebies that aren't in the free stuff section here.

Unless I'm mistaken--Poser is Rendo's cash cow.  Freebies are free milk--no cow required.  NOW--no free milk , unless you buy a cow?

I always assumed that something I picked up from Free Stuff was in a sense endorsed by R'osity, and if I picked up something through a post link I was taking my chances. As a grownup, I was Ok with that, but grownups haven't been welcome here for quite a while. The nice ones are tolerated, but they make the mouthbreathers uncomfortable.

If I can't find the occasional outside link in the forums, I will have even less incentive to visit them, and my R'osity traffic has already dropped pretty radically. Giving people less reason to come in has not been a great commercial strategy for any other business I know of, but innovation is R'osity's middle name.

It's a bit of a chuckle, seeing Acadia join us paranoid naysayers, however tentatively, after her stint as a mini-PTB.  But hey, she's just one of us now, so don't assume she knows more than we do. Would the moderators dissemble? Don't be silly. It's all for our own good. Really. Hold still; you'll like it. You know you will.

For the newerbe: The September reference is one of those "old hand" gags. R'osity has a reputation for doing something incredibly self-destructive each year in September, predictable as clockwork. Who knows? Maybe this year we'll get two rounds.

M

Quote - I am scratching my head as to why you, as a moderator, would embrace such an idiotic policy.  In order to enforce this policy....

As a former Hippie weirdo, I think I can clear this up for you. Of course it can't be policed systematically. What it can be used for is selective enforcement. It's like the Boston law against spitting on the sidewalk. If a white guy in a 3-piece suit spits, the cops ignore it. If a guy with an afro spits, he's toast. Or like the nudity laws at R'osity, which top-selling vendors were allowed to violate pretty blatantly because they were "special."

This rule will have four effects:

1. It will be used to punish anyone who gets on the wrong side of a mod and then breaks it.
2. It will cause honest people to post fewer links to great stuff.
3. It will cause a few people to wander off to some other forum.
4. It will cause a lot of people to whine, "Oh, man, why're you being like that?" and continue to buy here, post here, and whine.

I have a thought about the implications of this wondrous new rule. So we can't post links to BatLab freebies, because R'osity hasn't tested them. Well, what about the link to BatLab in the Linkshare list? What if I click on that and go there and I pick up something and when I open it, I see a unnamable body part or something and then my computer explodes?!?!? Who's protecting me from that??

M

I thought the mods and coords would have enough to do scouring the galleries for the merest hint of nipple posted without being tagged as nudity, without the need to have to minutely inspect every link posted in the forums.

Some questions :biggrin:

Which of the following forms of freebie announcements / linkage are allowed under the new policy ?
New freebies, third party linkage

1. "X has announced a new freebie in a forum at this site -> "
2. "X has announced a new freebie in this forum -> "
3. "X has announced a new freebie in this thread -> "
4. "X has announced a new freebie in this post -> "
5. "X has a new freebie on their site -> <site link, index page>"
6. "X has a new freebie on their site -> <site link, download page>"
7. "X has a new freebie on their site, see for a link to their site"
8. "X has a new freebie on their site see my signature for a link to their site"

Existing freebies, Third party linkage

1. "Freebie by X in a forum at this site -> "
2. "Freebie by X in this forum -> "
3. "Freebie by X in this thread -> "
4. "Freebie by X in this post -> "
5. "X has a freebie on their site -> <site link, index page>"
6. "X has a freebie on their site -> <site link, download page>"
7. "X has a freebie on their site, see for a link to their site"
8. "X has a freebie on their site see my signature for a link to their site"

New freebies, first person linkage

1. "I have announced a new freebie in a forum at this site -> "
2. "I have announced a new freebie in this forum -> "
3. "I have announced a new freebie in this thread -> "
4. "I have announced a new freebie in this post -> "
5. "I have a new freebie on my site -> <site link, index page>"
6. "I have a new freebie on my site see my for a link to my site"
7. "I have a new freebie on my site see my signature for a link to my site"

Existing freebies, first person linkage

1. "I have freebie in a forum at this site -> "
2. "I have freebie in this forum -> "
3. "I have freebie in this thread -> "
4. "I have freebie in this post -> "
5. "I have freebie on my site -> <site link, index page>"
6. "I have freebie on my site see my for a link to my site"
7. "I have freebie on my site see my signature for a link to my site"

Please also address whether any of the above forms are acceptable if
a) Link is given in text only, i.e. not active.
b) Sites / forums / thread / posts are mention by name / reference only, i.e. not a cut and pastable link.

I think that about covers everything

Good questions.  I await the answers eagerly.

Ive brought the linking issue back to staff for further discussion.

@nruddock    

Thanks for quantifying the variations.  I think that everyone else wants to know the same thing, and was just to lazy to ask it that way! (I know for a fact I was! :lol:)

I hope you discuss this realistic. I come to this forum to find those Batlab, etc links. Sad day when you find a way to disappoint me in policy.

Quote - @nruddock    

Thanks for quantifying the variations.  I think that everyone else wants to know the same thing, and was just to lazy to ask it that way! (I know for a fact I was! :lol:)

As someone who does a lot of linking, I would hate to run afoul of this new policy .

Some more questions :-
Will this policy and the non-allowed forms of linking be added to the TOS ?
When ?
Does the policy apply immediately as if was in the TOS ?
What sanctions will be incurred for infractions ?

How does this policy apply to things (e.g. scripts or pictures) attached to posts ?
What criteria will used to decide whether such things are freebies (and therefore against this policy) rather than a helpful reply ?

The freebie forum was a good idea.  Just about every other 3D community out there has one.  But controling all links unless a freebie has gone through "testing"?  Are you going to monitor signature links?  Are we not going to be allowed to link to our own websites if we offer freebies on it?  

I no longer bother with the freebie section here after the last ridiculousness where items that the renderosity staff had approved were suddenly not allowed and members were actually given warnings on record for what had recently gone through the requested process and allowed.   To give a member an official warning, in that situation, was unbelievable.  It's no wonder I don't trust the "official policies" of this place anymore.  

This came out of the blue so before any "offical warnings" are handed out this time I suggest this site post a clear and concise (notice I'm not expecting reasonable or understandable) wording of this new policy.

I'm afraid with this new policy I'll must search freebies at 3DCommune. It's well known when a site doesn't cover needs of members, another site take advantage of that...

And one more for the road :-

Will links to or details of where to find off site products (i.e. things for sale) still be allowed anywhere outside the Products Showcase forum ?
If so, why are references to freebies under a more restricted regime ?

Just one thing i like to mention ..and this is why i did like the Freebee forum to come online..

This thread is in the Poser forum and now we see em poping up all over the forums..
Every forum starts his own thread about it .

But if it was in the Freebee forum it had his own place for all to find ..because its about free stuff..
That was my idea for  the forum ..not  "Rules "R Us"...

Chris

I read the policy as meaning you can't post a link that directly starts a download like a url ending in .zip or something similar.

Apollo's downloads are within his download page which is essentially just a freebie page like everyone else so I don't think Apollo signature banners or any link to a freebie page was implied.

I didn't read it as disallowing pages that have freebie sections. I hope I am not mistaken, but I think links to pages is what is preferred. I say that because otherwise no site freebie page could be linked to and I don't think that was what was meant.

Dad's links were to pages.. not directly to Zips.

in the staff discussion regarding freestuff links, one might suggest further clarification of what's allowed, per noel's post, as there's no way to direct folks to a website without giving its URL, unless said site is so famous that everyone knows it already, which is never the case in my experience. IMVHO a more lenient approach to freestuff links will benefit this site. perhaps add a disclaimer to the TOS that any links to any items must be legal and proper, not to warez or spyware, and that anyone clicking any untested links in forums will do so at his/her own risk.

Quote - Dad's links were to pages.. not directly to Zips.

Really?!? oh if that is the case yeah that would be asinine then. Basically everything on the internet that is useful becomes unlinkable. That would be a scary lack of common sense if that is the case.

Are you sure DAD's links were to a page and not to zips?

"If you want to know what type of person you are dealing with, give them a little power and see what they do with it." -quote

Quote - because otherwise no site freebie page could be linked to and I don't think that was what was meant.

That is exactly how I'm reading it.  Absolutely no linking to any freebie unless said freebie has been uploaded to the free stuff section here and Renderosity has tested it for content and viruses.  After which said link to the item can be posted in the freebie forum, but no where else on the site.

So given that, it seems to me that I will no longer be able to post links to the FREE stuff  sites that I find around the net because those items have not been uploaded to the Renderosity free stuff area and undergone testing.

Stupid policy, and as was stated above, impossible to enforce with 5 moderators to this forum who are already taxed for time with all of their other responsibilities.

Quote - in the staff discussion regarding freestuff links, one might suggest further clarification of what's allowed, per noel's post, as there's no way to direct folks to a website without giving its URL, unless said site is so famous that everyone knows it already, which is never the case in my experience. IMVHO a more lenient approach to freestuff links will benefit this site. perhaps add a disclaimer to the TOS that any links to any items must be legal and proper, not to warez or spyware, and that anyone clicking any untested links in forums will do so at his/her own risk.

Well, I would suggest posting the link to the site in the freebie forum, then making a post to the requester giving them the link to the freebie forum thread, but that won't work either, because the freebie forum is only for free stuff that is in the free stuff area here!

Quote - > Quote - Dad's links were to pages.. not directly to Zips.

Really?!? oh if that is the case yeah that would be asinine then. Basically everything on the internet that is useful becomes unlinkable. That would be a scary lack of common sense if that is the case.

Are you sure DAD's links were to a page and not to zips?

"If you want to know what type of person you are dealing with, give them a little power and see what they do with it." -quote

yup. followed them myself. each to a page showing a pic of the item and the zip link.

Quote - Are you sure DAD's links were to a page and not to zips?

Yes they were to pages from one of the free hosting services (one of the better ones that doesn't make you jump through hoops get at the link).

As a side note, just because a link ends in .ZIP doesn't mean it goes directly to a file, it depends on the originating server whether you get an HTML page with a link or a ZIP file.

So far as the announcement of the change in policy, Renderosity dropped the ball...again. Instead of doing the right thing and sending the announcement out in the Newsletter, where you would think "News" of changes to the site and it's policies would be advertised, they do it covertly and posted it in the new "free stuff forum" and then start handing out slaps on the wrist to the very generous people who help draw people to this site because they didn't know of the change in policy.

Announcement of Free Stuff Forum and it's purpose

Followed by a "Please Read Before Posting" link to the rules of the Free Stuff Forum, which say the following:

Quote - Welcome to the Renderosity Freestuff Forum. The Freestuff Forum is intended for all Renderosity freestuff related postings within our community. This is a highlight area where our membership is invited to review, announce and give feedback in greater detail on the various freestuff items offered at Renderosity.**

Q**: Can I advertise/link to my free items I have on other sites here on the Renderosity Freestuff Forum?A: No, The Freestuff Forum is for our members to advertise their freestuff items offered only at Renderosity.

**
Q**: Can I link directly to my free items that are hosted elsewhere in the forum?

A: No, members are required to upload their free items to the Renderosity Freestuff area so they can go through the proper testing protocol before being released to the member-base. Links found in the forum that go directly to the free item DL will be removed, and the member will be requested to place the item into the freestuff area before being allowed to link to it from the forum.

**
Q**: Can I make requests for freestuff items I would like to have?

A: Yes. We feel this is an excellent opportunity for our freestuff providers to get an idea of what items are in demand.

**My Thoughts: I thought that was what the Wishing Well Forum was all about

Q**: Can I ask for feedback on my items that I would like to provide?

A: Yes, Members are encouraged to ask for feedback on any items they may want to someday offer as freestuff here at Renderosity.

**
Q**: Can I advertise anything other than freestuff items, like items that I have for sale?

A: No, Members are not to ask for feedback or advertise items they have, or may soon offer, in the Renderosity Marketplace, or off-site stores. Those type posts need to go to the Product Showcase Forum. Posts found advertising or linking to non-free items will be deleted and the member notified.

Hey remember that heated April Fool's thread in 2006 where Machine Claw and I were jokingly suggesting a freebie forum to move all the freebie posts to? lol. giggles Who knew they actually liked the idea. :b_funny:

This is going beyond that. This is disallowing any free stuff links to be posted at Renderosity by the sounds of it because all free stuff links have to be posted in the Free Stuff Forum, and the only links permitted there are to items that are in the Free Stuff area of Renderosity, which leaves all other freebie links and sites out in the cold with no place on this site.

Facinating. I will be interested what the final decision is. Perhaps those rules just apply to that forum only?

uhuh. Dad wasn't posting there.. he was posting in here in the poser forum......

Quote - Facinating. I will be interested what the final decision is. Perhaps those rules just apply to that forum only?

Then why was DAD told to not post his links here  in the Poser forum anymore?  If he wants to keep posting his links, he now has to upload the item to free stuff here, and then he can post the link to the item in the new Free Stuff Forum after Renderosity has approved the file.

I've made some freebie props that I was going to share here so that's not allowed then? Or you have to upload for approval first?

Jumpstart.. wrote:
Ive brought the linking issue back to staff for further discussion.

I think you missed this repley i think Acadia

When they keep these rules up more FB provider will leave and i just dont think they like that...
And loads of members come here for the FB's ... so less members is less sales in the MP ...
What goes around comes around .....

But to be honnest .. i never ever saw a more rule crazy bunch of people then the owners here...
Im realy amazed about it...

I like this quote.

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
 -Samuel Adams,  American President & Signor of the Declaration of Independence

Nothing like starting a Free Stuff Black Market.
" Can someone tell me the url to such and such item?"
" Sssshhh. I will IM you the link but it will cost you 2 free stuff urls to get it."

What about links to my tutorials, I don't charge for those like some do,  so they are freebies. Do they have to be zipped and sent to you for your seal of approval too?

Hmmm, interesting and maddening.  At first I thought this might have something to do with merchant accounts.  I know from a place a used to work, that if a site has links to "objectional" (an ever changing, undefinable word) sites that Visa and some merchant accounts have been shutting down the website.

Maybe this is the real fear.

Let's face it, no one is going to spend hours/days making a freebie just so he can load a trojan into it, so security is a BS excuse.

I've downloaded my fare share of freebies (many from Rendo's free section) that are of disappointing quality or usability, so it isn't some kind of quality control.

And, as has been mentioned, Freebies is a great attraction for getting customers.  Years ago I only knew Renderosity as a place with Freebies.  Now a spend a few hundred bucks here every year!

So, the only logical reason for this kind of thing is the Visa/Merchant account issue.

Which, means that Renderosity is not really trying to control us, it goes back to the banks.  The people with very real and far reaching power.

PS: ANTON, I love that quote, thanks!  Sad that the opposite seems to have become the American (and Canadian) way.

members are required to upload their free items to the Renderosity Freestuff area 
First of all, this is untrue: we CANNOT upload our freestuff to the Renderosity Freestuff area anymore and we haven't been able to do it for quite a few years now. All we are allowed to "upload" there are LINKS: links to thumbnail images and link to freebie site or file.

So this part of the TOS is wrong to start with.

From what I understand, when we upload the links the freebie is downloaded and tested before gaining approval and going live.

Frankly, since the MP testing queue is so long and now we have the QC review to determine if the product is even "worthy" of being sold here, a lot of merchants and freebie providers are going to go elsewhere.

Hmm, After reading this entire thread. I don't think I'll post my stuff here afterall. I come here for freebies. I'm one of those that was drawn here because Rendo has the most freestuff.

Quote - Jumpstart.. wrote:
Ive brought the linking issue back to staff for further discussion.

I think you missed this repley i think Acadia

When they keep these rules up more FB provider will leave and i just dont think they like that...
And loads of members come here for the FB's ... so less members is less sales in the MP ...
What goes around comes around .....

But to be honnest .. i never ever saw a more rule crazy bunch of people then the owners here...
Im realy amazed about it...

No, I saw that reply :)  "Discussion" doesn't always mean there will be any changes.  It's been a well known historical fact at this site, at least since I've been a member here, that once a policy is implemented, it's doubtful that it will be changed. It's almost a "Saving Face" type thing where even if they're wrong, they're right and to avoid having to admit they were wrong they keep in place stupid policies such as this one to avoid embarrassment.

IMHO it's not a bad thing to come forward and admit to having made an error in judgement where a rule is concerned.

It's completely obvious that this whole issue wasn't thought through very well at all.

Jumpstartme2:

Quote - Ive brought the linking issue back to staff for further discussion.

Since this may have slipped under some people's radar, thank you for following up on this.  I'm sure we all know you are only trying to do the task assigned to you, we appreciate you taking this item back for review.

"Jumpstartme2:

Quote - "Ive brought the linking issue back to staff for further discussion."

No, it has not slipped past anyone. How can it with constant reminders but here is a reminder, they say this every time they make a rule and then it does not get changed as has been pointed out earlier.

Well, so... if this one is a change as big as mods say, please can you notice us in the next newsletter?

Quote - "Jumpstartme2:
Quote - "Ive brought the linking issue back to staff for further discussion."

No, it has not slipped past anyone. How can it with constant reminders but here is a reminder, they say this every time they make a rule and then it does not get changed as has been pointed out earlier.

In all fairness I would like to add something to my earlier post. I said "it's doubtful that it will be changed."  That is true in a large number of cases, but I should have stated that there is only one instance that I can recall where a decision was reversed and that was where "Forum Search by Member" is concerned.  On the old forums it was possible to search by member, but it was disabled to speed up the forums with a promise that when the forums were converted to php that it would be turned back on again. However once the forums were converted they changed their minds and decided that they were not going to allow members to search the forum by member. The feature was eventually turned back on but only after much posting on behalf of the members of this community.

However, once a policy is implemented, change is rare, but not impossible as we can see by that one instance that I can recall.  So maybe there is a glimmer or a shadow of a hope that they will see the error of their policy and make their free stuff forum "non exclusive" like Poser Pros and Daz Freepository does.