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Subject: WIP... this seems to bland for me.


skiwillgee ( ) posted Thu, 16 August 2007 at 10:13 PM · edited Mon, 27 January 2025 at 5:03 AM

file_385557.jpg

I dug out Poser5 (free) and ran with the wolves.  GeoControl terrain.  Photo sky blended with bryce sky.

I've experimented with myriads of skys, atmospherics, soft shadows, etc and it still comes across too sterile for my liking.   I like the scene but I can't seem to make it art, if you know what I mean.  Believeable... softer... whatever...Suggestions? 

I'm taking a chance but I'm going to cross post this in the critique forum also to solicit no brycers views.


Analog-X64 ( ) posted Thu, 16 August 2007 at 10:33 PM

Are the Wolves casting any shadows??
 
The way the scene is lit looks like early morning before sunrise or the complete opposite. 

Why not add some mist in there for atmosphere??


Death_at_Midnight ( ) posted Thu, 16 August 2007 at 11:12 PM

How about change the POV? Maybe camera near the ground looking up a bit.. wolves coming towards the camera.....


wildman2 ( ) posted Fri, 17 August 2007 at 12:04 AM

What are the wolves after?A couple of hikers,an elk stuck in some mud from the melting snow.
The eye follows the downward to the right path then nothing is realy there.
I would use another color/hue for the foliage, it just blends too good into the terrain,real hard to pick out.
The top left would be a good spot for a wolfy den.Maybe addd aa stream.
My 3 cents for what it's worth.

"Reinstall Windows" is NOT a troubleshooting step.


rj001 ( ) posted Fri, 17 August 2007 at 4:13 AM

i would agree with some ground mist, the wolves coming out of it, also some DOF would really help, they eye is not automatically drawn to the nearest wolf, maybe change the view position, closer to the ground looking up. maybe a stronger light source to create some highlights. just suggestions. nice idea though.

Experience is no substitute for blind faith.

http://avalon2000.livejournal.com/ - My Art Blog



tom271 ( ) posted Fri, 17 August 2007 at 10:27 AM

This is a very good scene..  but it is not artistic in the sense of saying something... it is a nature shot..   I love the wolfs running down hill.. they look very realistic in their pose...  

If you want to say something....  you can put a helicopter's front end  just shotting out of the edge on top..  kind of chasing the wolfs....   I like the action that the running wolfs imply..



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Ang25 ( ) posted Sat, 18 August 2007 at 5:43 AM · edited Sat, 18 August 2007 at 5:44 AM

It's a great start, just needs a little spice. Beautiful sky, because it's pale, I'd agree with a bit of mist. Make a copy so you don't ruin the original tho. I'm looking forward to seeing where you take this.
I can see the wolves' shadows.


skiwillgee ( ) posted Sat, 18 August 2007 at 8:43 AM

Thanks to all who responded. 

I) I am shying away from the mist because it is a desert scene

  1. I moved camera around some to accent the lead wolf and it seems more dynamic
        and less emphasis on the terrain
  2. I changed the sky settings ....  again

I'll re-post when it finishes rendering and I do a little post work on the wolves.


Boofy ( ) posted Thu, 30 August 2007 at 11:28 PM

maybe some birds scattering away?


Angel_Natavi ( ) posted Fri, 31 August 2007 at 12:13 AM

Wait.  Poser Five is free?  How does it compair to DAZ Studio?

In order to go forward, one must often times look to the past.


Angel_Natavi ( ) posted Fri, 31 August 2007 at 12:14 AM

Oh yeah.  You need birds.  Maybe a cactus or three.

In order to go forward, one must often times look to the past.


SevenOfEleven ( ) posted Wed, 05 September 2007 at 6:54 AM

The picture goes downward, the wolves go downward but there is no focal point.
Can you add the back of a running rabbit or other prey creature? That way we can see what the wolves are chasing.

Could put the rear of the prey animal close to the lead wolf.

For fun, you could get/make a small covered wagon and shrink it down until its smaller than the wolves and use that. Can call the picture "Western threats". Well, if you wanted that kind of a picture.


skiwillgee ( ) posted Wed, 05 September 2007 at 9:30 PM

I rendered the new POV which is more dynamic but got sidetracked with the challenge thing.  I've got to do mega post work on the wolves because the Poser freebies are cheezey in closeups.  I've got to brush in more natural fur.  (I'm not good at it)  I will re-post it when I'm at least not ashamed of it.


Quest ( ) posted Wed, 05 September 2007 at 11:11 PM · edited Wed, 05 September 2007 at 11:17 PM

I personally like the image. Love the terrain work and how you managed to capture the wolves in natural poses. 

The reason I think the image seems bland is because there’s no “snape”, or as some might call it "pop" to it and that’s because the wolves blend in very well with their surrounding terrain.

 

I also personally do not believe that the viewer should be able to see what the wolves are after to help explain their behavior. Just like you don’t need to show the sun to show the source of the light.Wolves do things out of instinct and survival. They could just as well be playing, heading towards their den, or are out in pack hunting maneuvers. You have captured a moment in time that does not need or require an explanation, it is nature at its best.

 

Lowering the camera POV down looking up as already recommended might help to distinguish the wolves from their background. You might also consider changing the position of the sun to highlight the wolves and contrast them against their shadows. 

Some smattering of vegitation might be nice but not so much as to busy and clutter the scene.

The sky is great but I feel it needs some depth by extending its color saturation  and making it its own character but not so much as to take away from the overall image.

 

Great imagery and I too would like to see how this ends up.

Quest


Angel_Natavi ( ) posted Wed, 05 September 2007 at 11:16 PM

In other words, the wolves arn't the center of attention.  They are just part of the background.  It could be closer to the lead wolf, with the second wolf over the shoulder with the POV.  
"Sometimes, all one needs is a change of perspective."

In order to go forward, one must often times look to the past.


SevenOfEleven ( ) posted Thu, 06 September 2007 at 4:44 AM

I guess the question is: what did the artist intend?
Is the picture about the wolves or are the wolves part of the scenery?

I think it would be better to show what the wolves are chasing maybe just in part.
It would answer the question: Why are the wolves running?

Depending on what I wanted to say in the picture, I could go either way.
Not my picture so we have to see what the artist wants.

We have to see what skiwillgee thinks about this**.**


Quest ( ) posted Thu, 06 September 2007 at 12:54 PM · edited Thu, 06 September 2007 at 1:00 PM

I’m not debating the point and not looking to beleaguer it. I’m only merely trying to point out the obvious. Indeed it is entirely up to the artist to convey his image as that artist envisions it. You assume that the wolves are chasing something. I on the other hand do not assume that they are chasing anything although well they could be.

 

To me they are caught on “canvas” in the moment and can be in the act of doing any number of things as I said before; they may be playing, running towards their den for any number of reasons, running pack hunting maneuvers or may indeed be in hot pursuit of a prey. 

Animals run, walk, fly or swim naturally as a matter of instinct and self-preservation and there often isn’t any humanly understandable reason why they do the things they do and therefore require no explanation. It is just nature doing what nature does best, being unpredictable.

 

I feel it is not necessary for the artist to convey every nuance of the story and feel the artist should allow the viewer the free license of imagination to fill in the gaps for themselves. This is what keeps the viewer interested and wondering IMO, like the smile on the face of De Vinci’s Mona Lisa.

 

A photographer snaps a picture of a lady walking briskly down a busy metropolitan street does he have to convey the reason why she’s walking? Of course not, the viewer simply implies reasoning and sees the action merely as a natural thing humans do in their daily lives. To the viewer the woman is in her natural element and most viewers wouldn’t think anything of it. 

If one where to later find this woman somehow and ask her what was she doing when the photo was taken, one would perhaps be surprised to discover that she was late and on her way to teach a dance class. The point here being that she was merely caught in the act of doing something in her natural element and no explanation is necessary when viewing the picture. It was just a picture caught of a woman in a routine act of daily living. The same is true here with the wolves being in their natural element.

 

Of course if indeed Skiwillgee wants to convey the drama of a chase that is entirely up to him as the artist and not for me to insist that it is a chase or otherwise. I’m satisfied by his presentation in capturing a particular moment, a snap shot if you will of the animal in an act in its natural element.

Quest


skiwillgee ( ) posted Thu, 06 September 2007 at 1:17 PM

LOL.   I may never finish the pic and just keep everyone guessing.  Maybe I am late for meeting a lady at dance class.  


Boofy ( ) posted Thu, 06 September 2007 at 7:29 PM

I hope 'the lady' is not being chased by your wolves skiwillgee. :lol:


Quest ( ) posted Thu, 06 September 2007 at 10:02 PM

That’s the point Boofy, no one knows what the wolves are after. And that’s what keeps the interest.


Boofy ( ) posted Thu, 06 September 2007 at 10:16 PM

Maybe skiwikkgee could just have a shadow of something that is just out of camera view to 'tease' the viewer, a bit of dust/stones/snow kicking bach up at the wolves as well as from under the wolves feet (particularly the front one) would give it a bit of movement I would say. Jen


skiwillgee ( ) posted Thu, 06 September 2007 at 10:28 PM

Y'all putting the pressure on me to finish this.  I am trying to modify the original poser materials to a more realistic fur.   Dang it this is going to take a while.  If I can get the maps looking better then I  won't have to go through the whole nine yards every time I move a camera and re-render.  I'll get back with you next year. 

Brycing is supposed to be easy. 


Quest ( ) posted Thu, 06 September 2007 at 10:42 PM

No! By all means, take your time and thanks for the opportunity to share in your work.!


Boofy ( ) posted Thu, 06 September 2007 at 11:24 PM

Hey no sweat, there is no rush we are just all impatient little fiends and enjoying your work and this thread. :rolleyes: We will try and learn to be patient. Jen


SevenOfEleven ( ) posted Fri, 07 September 2007 at 7:46 AM

Brycing is supposed to be easy. 
<
Ha ha, only if you put a tree on an island and do not tweak anything.
Don't forget the sky with the "Bryce horizon" effect.

Since the view point is out a bit, you can and only put as much detail that makes sense.

Check out pictures of southwestern scenes with wolves, maybe you will get lucky and they will have something that could help out.  There is a magazine called "Southwestern Art' that might have some useful pictures, "American art review" or "Art collector's" magazines might also have some reference pictures but the chances are lower.


skiwillgee ( ) posted Tue, 11 September 2007 at 7:59 PM

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1519264

Different scene.  One Wolf, another render. 


SevenOfEleven ( ) posted Wed, 12 September 2007 at 9:13 AM

Kudos on the lighting and the background.
It seems a bit too dark and I had to search for the wolf a bit.

I adjusted my gamma settings, maybe they could use some tweaking.
Folks with gamma problems may not see the wolf or barely see it.


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