February is Microsoft Vista SP1 month, with the official release rising more speculation than the debut of Aiko 4. After announcing on Friday of it's planned take-over of Yahoo.com, Microsoft is once again in the news. Several online tech sites are stating that Vista SP1 will be released Monday, February 4th to the public.

Other rumors state the 4th, the 15th or the 27th, with Microsoft not "officially" announcing anything yet. Originally, SP1 was to be released simultaneously with Server 2008 in February 27th, but, perhaps, with the take-pver bid of Yahoo in the public's sights might hope to deflect some criticism from itself with the long-anticipated Vista fix.

The Vista SP1 Whitepages was released on January 31th, with over 100 fixes to the OS, including key security patches.

Ready or not, Vista users are ready for some improvement to the slowest OS on the marketplace. SP1 via Windows Update will be a smaller download, installing only the files needing fixed that haven't been installed previously through hotfixes (you have been installing those, haven't you).

Prepare yourself for the arrival of Vista SP1.

It'll be here sooner than Michael 4.0 :)

-- Jeff

Does vista automatically give you more memory availablity then windowsxp pro 32? That might be worth updating here. (I've had a free vista install here for a year now that came with a new system.)

Do you mean access memory? Vista Home Premium is still a 32 bit system, so if you're asking about RAM, you can only use more in the 64 bit version.

As far as memory usage -- SP1 will fix a Vista bug in accessing and addressing memory. SP1 also addresses Vista slowness in moving or extracting large files.

XP SP3 is also on its way, soon; mostly security fixes.

-- Jeff

Hey Jeff, thanks for the info hon!  Hope to see those improvements on my laptop for sure!!  One can only hope!

I've been downloading as many of the hotfixes as I can, but not all of them were made public, unless you downloaded the Release Canidate for SP1. Many had to do with Graphics cards and memory allocation.

I just wonder how much SP1 will fix, and if I'll have to re-tweak my system after it's install.

I'm glad that I'll be able to move my Runtimes more speedily after the install :)  I thought I was just impatient when I had to extract large .Zips or moved entire folders -- but, no, It was Vista.

And hopefully it'll fix the speed of working with large files, too. Vista's slowness is probably what caused the corruption of all of my xmas card .pz3 files I was working on. Since they were large files, they didn't write to the drive correctly. I haven't had any rendering difficulties, just file diffculties :)

Just a few more hours, and we'll know (midnight California time).

-- Jeff

I tried out the RC and it placed an irritating notice on my desktop that it was a preview version, I also lost use of my dearly loved Network Magic software.  My home box could transfer files, no problem, to the laptop but the laptop, while it could see the folders, was not permitted.  This was not the case before I had installed that damned preview.  So now that I've got it uninstalled I still have no way of working with the NM software.  Something in that updated RC messed with my system settings too deep for me to dig out and fix.  So perhaps the full on SP 1 will get my system working as it should, speed things up and allow me to use NM again.  Folks kept saying it was the firewall but even with the firewall turned off I couldn't use NM.  Luckily there was enough info and allowances set up that when I used a different path I found that I COULD pull files from my home box.  At least I have that figured out but I really  really  love NM and hope that I can once again use it when the smoke clears from this update! 

I take it you didn't wait for the RC refresh which was released a few weeks ago?

I thought about installing the RC, but I knew that I would have to uninstall it once SP1 final was released, and I didn't want to bother since the RC and RC Refresh wouldn't include everything that the final version would have.

I DO know that SP1 addresses previous compatiblity issues know to Vista with legacy software.

Sorry about your Network Magic; did you try to re-install the program after un-installing the RC? I haven't had any networking troubles with Vista itself working with my XP box.

Let me know if the final version fixes this issue for you.

-- Jeff

Quote - I DO know that SP1 addresses previous compatiblity issues know to Vista with legacy software.

Interesting.  We'll see if it actually works that way.

I'm still not planning on heading out into deep waters by doing anything so drastic as installing Vista on my system.  I'll see how loud (or not) the yelling is after this fix has been out for awhile.  That'll give me a better sense of the way things are breaking (no pun intended, of course ).

Why is Vista slow? Is it because of bloat, or because the graphical GUI costs CPU cycles?

I ask, because I noticed that NVidia has purposed the bottom of their Quadro video card lineup as 'vista dynomite' in that the drivers and the firmware are optimized to handle Vista.

I am referring particularly to the PNY Quadro 570 FX, which is retailing street for around $175 and is said to not only make Vista sing, but give a great boost to SOME 3D applications (for which NVidia developed specific drivers) such as Max, Maya, etc.

Essential for Microsoft Windows Vista
Offering an enriched 3D user interface, increased application performance, and the highest image quality, NVIDIA Quadro graphics boards and NVIDIA OpenGL ICD drivers are optimized for 32- and 64-bit architectures to enable the Windows® Vista™ experience.
** http://www2.pny.com/NVIDIA-Quadro-FX-570-PCIE-font-colordc0431NEWfont-P2531C329.aspx
**

Also, within the concept of "vista is slow" I am curiously still interested, because testers in the Carrara forum are saying Vista64 renders with a significantly advantageous rendertime over XP64 (not to mention over any 32bit OS).

So, is this thing slow or not?

::::: Opera :::::

*So, is this thing slow or not?

*And some... 

1.8 single core, 1.5GB, XPHome SP2
5 year old Dell 1.2gb 512mb. Windows 98b. 
2.3 dual core, 2GB RAM, Vista home basic.     

Which 2 machines can run a 38mb 640x480 video clip without stuttering like youtube on 14,400 dialup ? well it aint vista :)
 
3/4's of my apps won't run - what do run can be slower than 2 slothes having a sh*g in a treacle factory. 

Guardian was reporting even the sound isn't up to much - some reports say you'd get better quality from a £10 CD player.
 
You don't  even get a disc anymore. Most OEM manufacters stick on it a recovery partion, no disc, so if you've got an 80gb drive (like many cheaper laptops do), time you stick office on theres virtually no space left.    

one of the larger independent companies that do benchmark tests tested Vistas SP1 and XP's SP3 patches,(not sure when both are to be released, Vistas SP1 was 1 to 2 percent faster and surprisingly XP's new SP3 is 10% faster that SP2 apparently making XP twice as fast as Vista.
They have also increased the product support for XP to another 5Years. which makes me think i wont b buying into vista for some time yet....

"But we know what went wrong. We won't repeat the old mistakes"
"Yeah, we'll make all new ones" - Jurassic Part II (I think..;)

Bad news
It has been tested heavily vista sp1 and it hardly increases vista speed, that's why he delaying xp 3 service pack, as testing of xp3 service pack increases xp performance by another 10%.
That's why I'm waiting for windows 7 in 2010 and bypassing the stop gap vista, as windows 7 will leave vista standing in the speed department.

it's not that I don't believe you guys, it's that I don't see HOW it could be true; with so many million CPUs destined to run it, how could Microsoft stand up under such a monumental debacle?

Meanwhile, others are loving it and reporting it great and fast for 3d applilcations.

::::: Opera :::::

i suppose it's the luck of the draw if you have no problems with any of microsofts new OS's but lets face it as with any software (even Poser)the new version always needs a few updates before its really what you would call better and more stable than its predecessor, and even more so in my opionion when your playing with the OS....

I've been reading these discussions on Vista because it's time for me to replace my old desktop. There have been enough issues with Vista compatibility that I've been leaning towards getting a system with XP. Since I hold on to computers for more than two years, it appears I'll be better off skipping Vista as an operating system.

I'll never understand why it is so hard for MS to be backwards compatible.  When will they understand that we only need a stable operating system that lets us use our applications?

I'm looking forward to the SP.
Vista (for me) already outperforms XP in almost every category; most especially multi-tasking, multi-threading, and network file access/sharing.
Any improvements is just icing on the cake.

dvlenk6 do you have 32-bit or 64-bit, and if the later do you have more than 4gig ram installed?

I'm with dvlenko, I've been using Vista Ultimate 64 for Months now with Poser 6 and 7, Vue6Infinite, PS CS3, games and other software and I've had no issues!
And a hot fix fixed the networking issues so I'm networked properly at home now too.
Pisses all over XP as far as I'm concerned.
Wouldn't go back to XP if you paid me!!

Vista is good at many things, including Graphics and Networking. It's the booting up and running hundreds of backgrounds services that is a bit annoying. Had to tweak the hell out of it to get the system flying, and now it's pretty speedy.

I'm certain Vista 64 is great. It's 64 bit, so one can have plenty of RAM. I haven't had any Poser issues releated to Vista with the 32 home premium, only to video drivers. And come next year, it'll replace my TV, since everything will be HD and my computer has the tuner.

As for Operaguys' rhetorical question: How? It's Microsoft. MS also stated that Vista was the most secure, state-of-theart system, blah, blah... but look at this service release -- it's huge, mostly security features. Even companies make mistakes, and MS did so in the past with ME.

But even Poser 6 wasn't stable until SR3.

Looking forward to any improvements SP1 can offer.

-- Jeff

The fact that an OS works fine for some people is not really a defense.

Unlike a graphics tool, an OS is required to be universal.   That's the whole point!
It should run smoothly on all relatively current machines. 

With Microsoft's huge staff and huge resources, they can afford to test on a
wide variety of setups, including 3d graphics and big files, for heaven's sake.
Obviously they didn't.

Hmm, despite all the slowness I've had with Vista and even the networking issue with NM (and yea, I did reinstall it Jeff, made no difference :sad: ) I do notice that Vista boots up very fast compared to XP Pro!  There are many things I LOVE about Vista and many things I love about XP (including stability and running faster ONCE it's booted up!!  Take the best of both and make a new OS with that.... one can dream, cant one??  :lol:

Believe me, with hearing that support for XP has been extended for another 5 years makes it tempting but my laptop is by Everex and the guys that hang out at their forums stated that there are too many things that are tightly hooked into needing Vista that if I were to downgrade to XP  I may loose some functionality for the laptop not to mention that the keyboard and all the needed drivers that I don't think that XP is able to provide since Everex has it's own proprietary keyboard layout (which is a royal PITA to deal with, I'm always tapping keys that I didn't mean to tap :mad: ) 

Sigh... so I will just go with the SP 1 when it's released.  CNET just sent out their news letter stating it was finalized and that Server 2008 will be released on the 27th of this month but didn't mention the release date of the Vista SP 1.  Hope it's sooner than later!!

Latest news: SP1 was released to manufacturing today, to be included in new PC's.

The bad news: previous VISTA "users" have to wait until mid-March before it become available to Windows Update/Download Center.

Microsoft also stated that some device drivers will not work with SP1 until an update is released afer SP1's release.

So now mid-March for the download. meh.

-- Jeff

Meh!  :mad:

Guess the good news is that it was released ahead of schedule (it was to be simultaneously with Server 2008 on the 27th), and it does give companies a month and a half to update their drivers for SP1.

So it looks like I'll be getting SP1 for my birthday.

-- Jeff

I did not want to update to Vista AT ALL, so I bought a Mac instead. Not being glib or anything, it has been a painless experience.

Quote - dvlenk6 do you have 32-bit or 64-bit, and if the later do you have more than 4gig ram installed?

64-bit, 8GB RAM.

Meh.  I'll seriously consider upgrading to Vista when the consensus of the "YEA's!" outweighs the "meh's".  And I haven't seen that happening yet.

I can't say what I will or will not do, OS wise, in the near future.  But I might end up waiting for Windows 7 -- and hoping that it's not a disappointment.  Then again -- if (IF) they actually succeed in fixing Vista in the meantime -- to the point where the currently-prevailing "meh's" start to fade into the province of the hardcore malcontents (who'll never like an MS product no matter WHAT MS does).......once the "meh's" belong exclusively to the malcontents......then I'll consider installing Vista 64.

Will MS get it right this time?  I dunno.  One can always hope.

No way will I go to MAC.  I love too many programs I can only run on Windows and emulation is not an option for me.  It sucks up system resources and I just don't have the money for a super expensive computer like I would need in order for that to happen.  MAC's easily double in price as you add more goodies to them.  Bigger screens, more memory, more processor speed... larger hard drives even.  Nope.  I'll deal just fine, thank you!

Macs aren't a realistic alternative for me, either -- at least not in the foreseeable future.  And likewise in my case: it's for compatibility reasons.

It was interesting to note that while we'd been hearing a lot in recent months about how fabulously well  Apple was doing -- it turns out that they weren't.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/01/22/financial/f135238S53.DTL&feed=rss.news

Live by the iPod, die by the iPod.......I suppose.

 Don't get me wrong, it was difficult to make the transition from Windows. I found that a lot of programs I thought I couldn't live without - turns it I don't need them anyway, though I understand that for several people this will not be the case. Python for instance is well supported; maybe some apps need to be compiled (gcc being native to the UNIX that runs underneath the GUI), but again this is not for everyone.

For the sake of friendly debate, I'd be interested to know what the "can't live without" apps are. Universal Texture Converter is the only one I truly miss.

Though I have not used it, Parallels is supposed to be just as fast as a native Windows box unless you play games, which I don't. I've still got all my Windows boxes (running 2000), but I will never, ever update to Vista. Linux doesn't support anything I'd like, so what other alternatives are they? BeOS? Ha!

Oh, and I don't have an Ipod, Iphone or any other Idevice.

1. I don't have X amount of money to spend on a license for Photoshop CS
2. I DEARLY love Irfanview.  You can tell me that there are other free image viewers for MAC but as many alternatives as I've tried for Windows I always go back to Irfanview and it's not even perfect but I love it anyways.
3. All the content, sit files, I'd have to download from all the multiple sites that even have MAC compatible sets for MAC platform in order to get my runtimes and DAZ Studio Content folders filled again!  gag just the thought of having to go through that makes me wanna be sick.
4. list goes on but those are 3 immediate issues for me right off the bat.  Basically, money, time and what I'm used to all being compromised not to mention just learning the OS!  Nope!

So, for a dedicated 3D development and render rig that won't be connected to the internet and is not for games, and for a no-turning-back 64 Bit install....

Which flavor do I want?

Home Basic OEM? Retail?     It keep reading that the OEM cannot be installed on a different machine once installed on one. I hope this does not mean there is trouble if you rebuild and have to reinstall on the same machine.

Why would I need anything more than Home Basic? It opens up 8Gig RAM (other flavors open up more, but hey, 8Gig is probably all my MOBO will digest anyway.)

If HomeBasic64 gives me the 3D speed I want, but a different flavor would increase that speed, I love to know that.

Any thoughts?

::::: Opera :::::

If you need to install to a different or a rebuilt computer then you would need to call MS for a new Key.  I've done this with my copy of XP Pro multiple times.  They are a nice bunch there and think this is as stupid a way of going about this as we do so no fears there!

I get it, and that would not be a problem as far as OEM.

Not that I know of considering my copy of XP Pro is OEM!

Quote - For the sake of friendly debate, I'd be interested to know what the "can't live without" apps are. Universal Texture Converter is the only one I truly miss.

In my case, AutoCAD.  And possibly 3ds max at some future date.  Apples of any variety are virtually unknown in the engineering world.

Quote - Oh, and I don't have an Ipod, Iphone or any other Idevice.

No one has to own one.......it's just that Apple's recent success is largely attributable to iDevice sales.  So when the iDevice sales didn't live up to expectations in a given quarter and prior to the holidays: many big-time investors bailed.  Which did an overnight number on Apple's stock price.

That situation might have little to do with Apple in terms of their PC market performance, which appears to be good.  But it does demonstrate how closely the success / lack of success of Apple as a company is tied to devices such as the iPod and iPhone.  It makes it look like Apple's overall corporate health is tied more closely to the iPod than it is to the MAC.

It has been in recent years. An there was a also a report that hurt them, when it showed huge sales numbers in Iphones, but almost 1/3 of them in stock in apple stores unsold. Basically it sounded like apple "sold" the iphones to it's own stores, reported that as breakthrough sales, and then  since technically since they still owned them sitting on shelves, that hurt the credibility of Iphone sales, and Apple itself.

All I want from Apple is for quicktime to stop bugging me to do an Itunes install! I just want quicktime for videos that need it to play back.. I don't want or NEED Itunes.. LOL!

Quote - All I want from Apple is for quicktime to stop bugging me to do an Itunes install! I just want quicktime for videos that need it to play back.. I don't want or NEED Itunes.. LOL!

Yes -- that's irritating.  The Apple updater is constantly trying to get me to download & install iTunes.  Grrrrrrrrrr.........

Yeah... like bi weekly!

yes that is irritating. Also, I foolishly installed Safari for Windows! You should see the attempts Steve makes to update THAT on my PC. I am too lazy to remove it, but I will eventually.

Just either build it inot quicktime and force everyone to install it, or give us an opt out option so we aren't naggd by it all the time.

Makes me wanna google the web to see if anyone's hacked it to remove that nag...LOL!

 I'm not a big fan of Itunes either but Quicktime + H2.64 + my future BluRay drive will rule!

Touche' regarding AutoCAD and 3dsMax. Personally I find the Max interface unintuitive and difficult to navigate - perhaps I'm biased from my time with Maya, which makes more sense to me. Regarding engineers and PCs, you're probably right since PCs are more configurable. Too bad those guys don't know that Unix is installed on each one and has a cool 2D -3D function grapher to help colleagues visualize their new BRDF.

Ironically, the only problem I have with Safari is accessing my hotmail account. I should probably port over to gmail.

I wasn't aware of Apple's recent corporate health as they've always been underdog-like but I've always known that unlike Microsoft, their profits have been tied with hardware sales. Once they switched to Intel I couldn't resist - especially since all but the most powerful Macs are competitively priced with PCs (no, I'm not delusional). BTW, they are nearly immune to viruses and spyware, though I imagine that will change once more people are running them.

I don't know what Irfanview is, but I love the native image viewer which also opens PDFs. Actually the ability to write PDFs is native to the system, which has been a great help for distributing training materials that I generate for work.

Paying for another Photoshop license is a real concern, linking to my Windows Runtime is not. Though I know we all have limited time, the whole "this is the way things have always been done" mentality sounds like "the Earth is flat" to me. That is in no way meant to be an attack.

Again, I'm just one guy with a point of view. To me, for 3D I think Windows 2000 is nearly the best OS around because it's so lean but currently unsupported and not exactly artist friendly. XP is functional but bloated, and according to this thread Vista is slower (translation: more overhead) than XP. If I need a number crunching machine, I don't need for the GUI and unused utilities taking away system resources.

Well, of all the Apple products I do have an iPod and want an iTouch in the worst way.  No desire for an iPhone though.  So when iTunes wants to update, I've learned the hard way that the player doesn't function as well when you don't upgrade after a while.  I do find it also irritating that Apple insists that you download and install iTunes and Quicktime, yup, that's not cool. Their installer updater aught to read the programs on the system and ONLY update what it finds not shove a program down your throat you don't want or need. 

Well, at least this hasn't turned into a Linux thread :) 

I've heard nothing but praise for Vista 64, in comparision to Vista 32 Home Premium, but with 64, you can crank up the RAM, which Vista needs to run (yes, Vista is a resource hog).

If you haven't bought Vista, wait untl after the SP1 is released in March. We'll see how things pan out by then. I'm certain there'll be many online reports on how well it works. And I'm fairly certain that MS won't hesitate to throw out many more hotfixes afterwards. In fact, MS is URGING folks to participate in the bug report program built into Vista, to help them get the rest of the data on how they can improve it. No more hubris.

Now, let's see how fast the program and computer companies are to get up to speed with SP1. They've been slow with Vista support itself, but, like Microsoft , perhaps they'll eat the crow and do the work expediately.

-- Jeff

Well, I need to purchase before March.

I have a fairly narrow usage list for this rig. What is persuading me now towards Vista64 is the multicore CPU (Core2Quad) and full motherboard of RAM (8GIG) which 3DSMax 2008-64 will utilize. I am reading that XP64 will lag in performance over Vista64.

It won't be on the internet, no games, no deep legacy apps, etc., just Adobe AF and PS, Carrara, Poser and Max. I understand Poser32 and Carrara32 will not be advantaged past 4Gig RAM.

I can't find a reason not to go with Vista64. It's SP1 in March will be gravy for me by that time.

Any naysayers for my particular purposes?

::::: Opera :::::

Quote - Well, I need to purchase before March.

I have a fairly narrow usage list for this rig. What is persuading me now towards Vista64 is the multicore CPU (Core2Quad) and full motherboard of RAM (8GIG) which 3DSMax 2008-64 will utilize. I am reading that XP64 will lag in performance over Vista64.

It won't be on the internet, no games, no deep legacy apps, etc., just Adobe AF and PS, Carrara, Poser and Max. I understand Poser32 and Carrara32 will not be advantaged past 4Gig RAM.

I can't find a reason not to go with Vista64. It's SP1 in March will be gravy for me by that time.

Any naysayers for my particular purposes?

::::: Opera :::::

No issues here with Vista Ultimate X64 runs like a dream on an AMD X2 5200+, 4 GB Ram.
Only issues encountered have been the need to switch off UAC to install Poser and some other programmes and sadly I have never been able to get Face Shop Pro 3.5 to run properly on Vista in either 64 bit or 32 bit.

My only real complaint with Vista is the annoying issue of it not keeping a user's desktop arrangement - particularly in dual screens - it's been a case of not letting anyone else use their login account if I want my icons arranged as I like them....

I'd say go for it - should do your job nicely.....

Edit to Add:-
Carrara seems to love the 64 bit environment and purrs along nicely - I have never seen the ram go above 61% even on heavy renders with both cores peaking.

Should be a good choice. I wish I had the money to upgrade to 64.

Just finished reading up on the latest release notes and improvements in SP1.

From the Microsoft blog, it's aapparent that they are releasing this slowly for better press :)  In fact, if your system has one of the known device drivers that won't work with SP1 (due to those drivers installation, not the drivers themselves), you won't be able to download the update.

Okay, need to go render something now :)

-- Jeff

Hmmm, I wonder, is the upgrade from 32 to 64 possible or will I loose everything and have to start over?  I REALLY hate having almost a gig of my RAM not available.  I think that's a crime.  Wasted money and wasted RAM!  :mad:  If it's fairly easy and it's going to add more functionality as well as speed then I'm all for it.  Just wondering how apps like PSCS 2, DAZ Studio and others are going to run on it and if I'll have to set them to run as 32 bit apps....

Any info for me on that end of things??

If Vista 64 is anything like XP 64, then 32-bit apps should run in 32-bit emulation mode.  Fortunately, you get 4GB address space for these! :)  And, yeah, having 4GB+ and a 32-bit OS makes one smack forehead and say, "I coulda had a 64-bit!"  I did that for quite a while - mainly before the advent of ubiquitous 64-bit hardware and Windows OSs.  One thing to remember is that a dual-processor divies up 4GB - but the apps still don't get more than 3GB.  It's a bit of a win-lose-win situation there.

It seems to be taking an awfully long time for drivers/software to make the 64-bit transition.  Maybe it was the same from 16-bit to 32-bit (eh hem, I was on a 32-bit Amiga at the time - that's my alibi and I'm stickin' to it).  I jumped my software over to 64-bit as soon as I could and my name isn't Billy G.  One might think that sales (greed, money, green gold) has some influence at the moment...

No can't upgrade your 32 to 64 - have to start again.

Don't have to setup anything to run as 32 bit - they just run........