GND4 by Blackhearted is absolutely fantastic.  When combined w/ V4++ morphs, there are many possibilities.

Unfortunately most of the clothing I have for V4 just doesn't fit exactly right with the GND4 morph.

I would like to see clothing morphs made available for existing clothing items, specifically the V4MFD  and Bodysuit.

Also would like to see more cloting made available with GND4 specifically in mind when created.

see here: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2733083
;) :)

Hopefully clothing designers will start including morphs in their clothing products to fit more popular character morphs such as GND4.

I'm not certain if Gabriel used stock morphs from DAZ, custom morphs or a combo thereof in creating GND4. However, adding the morphs shouldn't prove too difficult for clothing designers/modelers. The only catch? The clothing modeler would need to own a copy of GND4 of course ;o).

I also think it would improve their clothing figures' marketability and value if they add popular character morphs to their clothing items.

~Will

Good morphs for various body type can take a long time to make. Each morph can take almost the same amount of time to model a new piece (before UV mapping and texturing), so at some point content creator must draw a line how many morphs to include, as at some point they could never recover the time investment in dollars.

This is one of the biggest reasons for limited amount of morphs in many products, you can't always make enough money on the product to make it worth while including large number of morphs. Even with top selling pieces.

As far as I know, GND is hand sculpted, and not s dial-spin character.

Actually, creating morphs can be quite simple (or difficult) depending on the software tools at your disposal. I use Rhinocerous and it's "Flow Along Curve" feature makes short work of even the most difficult morphs (Rhino 4's flow along curve screws up morphs for whatever reason, but I still have Rhino 2 and it does quite well as does Rhino 3). There is still some tweaking to do later, but that feature will always get you close to where you need to be. I have created hand sculpted characters in the past and always used Rhino to create my morphs ;o)

Quote - Good morphs for various body type can take a long time to make. Each morph can take almost the same amount of time to model a new piece (before UV mapping and texturing), so at some point content creator must draw a line how many morphs to include, as at some point they could never recover the time investment in dollars.

This is one of the biggest reasons for limited amount of morphs in many products, you can't always make enough money on the product to make it worth while including large number of morphs. Even with top selling pieces.

As far as I know, GND is hand sculpted, and not s dial-spin character.

Quote - Actually, creating morphs can be quite simple (or difficult) depending on the software tools at your disposal. I use Rhinocerous and it's "Flow Along Curve" feature makes short work of even the most difficult morphs (Rhino 4's flow along curve screws up morphs for whatever reason, but I still have Rhino 2 and it does quite well as does Rhino 3). There is still some tweaking to do later, but that feature will always get you close to where you need to be. I have created hand sculpted characters in the past and always used Rhino to create my morphs ;o)

Most vendors that do this have a whole arsenal of tools they can use.

Um, the point I was making is that including numerous morphs for numerous characters can be very time consuming. They're not difficult to make.  However, to include a lot of morphs for a characters, they can easily number over a hundred. It can take between 15 min to an hour per morph. If a morph only takes only 15 min to make (Export the figure to morph against, Sculpt, export out of the modeller, name, inject, and test), 100 morphs would take about 25 hours at best. 100 hours at worst.

On average, a vendor makes 200-500 per set of clothing they make (unless they're a top vendor), which means to keep things at least little bit profitable, they have to limit the amount of time they spend making each piece, or they'd have to sell them at three times the price. 

The last item I made (for Apollo) inclused over 100 morphs, and it took total of about 200 hours to make the whole piece. One would have to sell $1000 worth (after the Rendo takes their 50%)and not even reach the minimum wage making an elaborate piece like that.

Very true.

I think my first handsculpted character took about 120 hrs just to create the morphs, then there was the tedious crap that I hate...editing the poser files and creating the INJ morphs (which back then had to be done by hand because it was a relatively new discovery and there were no utilities available). The 2 characters that I created only pulled me a net profit of less than $150 each. Not very lucrative for putting in so many hours. It's why I often stick to props LOL. Not to give away too much but my best selling prop has netted about 10x as much and took 6hrs to make..start to finish. It seems my simplest designs seem to be the best selling.. hmmm... weird at best LOL

I think what I was getting at is that one could discern that GND4 is a top selling item in the MP. Considering no one ever buys Victoria and uses her straight out of the box (thus they purchase a character package), I would think clothing merchants would take a close look at the, top of the pick, character packages on the market and at least design some morphs around a top seller.  Perhaps even ride on the coattails of a top character creator?

My niche is props and I spend more time researching the market these days than anything else. Sometimes if I am not sure of something and how well it will go over, I'll test the market and release something just to see how it will hold up.

I'll spend time perusing the MP for items on my ideas list, too. If I see the market is oversaturated, I'll move on. If I see only a few items that are similar and I think I can do better, then I'll go for it. If I can't do better, then my item is probably not going to sell well unless it is more original in design... unique in scope (like your Wizard's Robe is pretty unique... damn good work too!)

Sometimes I think I could sell 3D Rubber Dog Poop if I were so inclined because I would target it with a theme or something specific.

I commend you on the clothing items though. I hate messing with JPs, Rots and the other headaches that come with figure creation. I'll stick to my props for now hehe.. I can model about 3 a night.. uvmapping, texturing and poserizing takes much longer .. not to mention doing the promo images ughhh..

~Will

Quote - > Quote - Actually, creating morphs can be quite simple (or difficult) depending on the software tools at your disposal. I use Rhinocerous and it's "Flow Along Curve" feature makes short work of even the most difficult morphs (Rhino 4's flow along curve screws up morphs for whatever reason, but I still have Rhino 2 and it does quite well as does Rhino 3). There is still some tweaking to do later, but that feature will always get you close to where you need to be. I have created hand sculpted characters in the past and always used Rhino to create my morphs ;o)

Most vendors that do this have a whole arsenal of tools they can use.

Um, the point I was making is that including numerous morphs for numerous characters can be very time consuming. They're not difficult to make.  However, to include a lot of morphs for a characters, they can easily number over a hundred. It can take between 15 min to an hour per morph. If a morph only takes only 15 min to make (Export the figure to morph against, Sculpt, export out of the modeller, name, inject, and test), 100 morphs would take about 25 hours at best. 100 hours at worst.

On average, a vendor makes 200-500 per set of clothing they make (unless they're a top vendor), which means to keep things at least little bit profitable, they have to limit the amount of time they spend making each piece, or they'd have to sell them at three times the price. 

The last item I made (for Apollo) inclused over 100 morphs, and it took total of about 200 hours to make the whole piece. One would have to sell $1000 worth (after the Rendo takes their 50%)and not even reach the minimum wage making an elaborate piece like that.

Personally I hate to morph to too many character shapes. some body shapes just manage to distort the base mesh so badly that the textures stretcha dnllok like crap after. For many body shapes. Including GND2 and GND4 (which are completely custom morphs as far as I can tell) it;s just plain easier to make a custom fit outfit and in my opinion I can make it look better than a set that's made to fit plain V4 and then pushed and pulled into shape. That not to say it can;t be done! It's just that I find it more time consuming than the results warrent.

Also as far as the tools.. they cost as well. I use Carrara, Silo, Uvmapper pro and numerous smaller poser specific aps.I own WW2 and a few magnet sets but honestly the morphs they make aren;t very flattering, and require quite a bit of tweaking. Making the UVmaps alone cost me a lot of time (easier now with silo but still a good 3rd of the time.). Then there is the rigging.

Also and probably more the reason than anything else... I'd just rather move on and make something NEW rather than spend weeks more pushing and pulling something into a different shape. If I wanted to do that I probably  wouldn't be modeling but makeing character morphs instead! I add some morphs to clothing created to the gnereric base figures (V3, V4 etc.) simply to bow to the market, but I would much rather turn that part of the process over to someone else. I'd give free sets to someone that wanted to add morphs, LOL.

just chiming in
mike

Yeah I hear ya. It would be nice if someone would design an app whereas you could load  the clothing figure and the the character of a figure it is based on, press a button and wahlah it analyzes and pushes the right vertices in place where they need to go or in an approximate (since a clothing item may have more vertices than the base figure it was designed on). If it could analyze and calculate shape and form and push the vertices relatively to where they need to be, that would be great. It would could also be a feature similar to Rhino's "Flow Along Curve" whereas you could define the shape by sectioning the base top to bottom and side to side and the siftware analyzes the shape against the mesh vertices and moves them appropriately. It's time like this I wish I was a top notch programmer.. I could most certainly rake in the dough with an app like that. :o)

yep. I agree. I don;t have Rhino so I've never seen the routine you speak of. I'e been working a lot with magnets lately but I'm no master at them. I believe someone int an thread in the Poser forum, that Conniekat is featured in, mentioned something like 120 magnets to build a clothing fit set for GND4. That's a LOT of work! I wish, him/her well and would be very happy to see it! I think the highest number I've managed to keep trak of was around 30. After that I tok the resulting shame into Carrara and finished the details by hand. I could have MADE an new set for the second figure in 1/2 the time it took, and , I beleive, the results would have looked better.

Personally I have a lot of respect for the poeple that DO have the patience tp create morphs. The amount of work to make V4 look like GND4 simply ammazes me. I'd have given up long before making somthing that looks like that. Strange, pushing verts doesn;t bother me for making something NEW, but but the effort  to do that to fit to a pre-existing shape just doesn;t hold the same attention.

m

Thee are programs out there that will help with morph creation... Tailor, Morph Magic, Wardrobe Wizard, but after the program is done there's still a lot of hand work to be done smoothing things out so they look good.