I have numerous runtimes and, thanks to Hogsoft's CR Pro, all my characters, MAT poses, Props and so on use path, as opposed to relative, references. This is great because it means Poser doesn't have to do any searching: it's always directed exactly to the .obj file, texture or Injection pose required, so things load very quickly.

However.

Poser Pro screws this up bigtime. Here's part of a PZ3 made in Poser 7:

prop Plant03_1:1
    {
    storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    objFileGeom 0 0 x:poser currentruntimegeometriesDAZPropsEnvironmentPlant03.OBJ
    }
prop plants09_1:1
    {
    storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    objFileGeom 0 0 x:poser currentruntimegeometriesDAZPropsEnvironmentplants09.OBJ

The same PZ3 was then opened in Poser Pro and resaved; the result:

prop Plant03_1:1
    {
    storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    objFileGeom 0 0 :runtime:geometries:DAZProps:Environment:Plant03.OBJ
    }
prop plants09_1:1
    {
    storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    objFileGeom 0 0 :runtime:geometries:DAZProps:Environment:plants09.OBJ

PoserPro writes a relative reference. When the file is subsequently opened by PoserPro (or indeed Poser 7), it can't find any of the OBJ or texture files (I have runtimes dedicated to storing textures and geometries only which are not added to Poser). This makes PoserPro completely unworkable for me, so I'm going to ask for my money back.

I know I can fix this by shoving all my runtimes into PoserPro and turning on deep searching, but this will slow everything down considerably.

If anyone is aware of q quick fix for this, please let me know!

You call that an issue? I call that fixed! I hate that Poser 6 and Poser 7 write absolute references to PZ3, CR2, PP2, FC2 files! And frankly, whether they're absolute or not, if I don't add the external runtimes to Poser 6 & Poser 7 it doesn't find things with Absolute references in runtimes that they haven't been linked to! No I don't have CR Pro.

This is one of those most requested fixes in poser pro, and I never have any issues at all with poser finding anything here.

Maybe just use the provided systems in place, and see if you no longer need CR pro any longer?

All I do is create separte runtimes by catagories, and I never have ANY issues loading ANYTHING.

For some reason people wan to micro manage poser content, when they really don't have to do any management at all.

Quote -

You call that an issue? I call that fixed!

Quote -
This is one of those most requested fixes in poser pro

OK, it's just me then. I've been working like that since Poser6, but maybe it's no longer necessary. Anyway, I can live with that.

But there's something else:

Poser Pro can't match Poser 7's renders. I don't mean that they're not as good, I mean you can't make identical renders of the same scene in Poser7 and PoserPro. You can't even get close! In other words, it is impossible to open a Poser 7 document, which you may have spent a lot of time on (lighting, shaders etc.), open it in PoserPro, and get the result you were expecting.

In the illustration, we see the P7 render top left and a PPro render top right; this has all the new extras turned off and should match the P7. Ignoring the ground, the best match is the one at bottom right, with gamma correction set at 2.2. But have a close look at the background - it's become unsharp! And, what is going on with the ground anyway? I changed the gamma for its texture file to 1.0 and re-rendered at 2.2, to no avail.

Yeah, so I can fart about and fix this too, somehow, maybe. I shouldn't have to.

Am I alone in thinking that I really should be able to use both P7 and PPro and get predicatble results?

To get renders on par with earlier versions of Poser, turn off Gamma Correction in the Render Settings.

Quote - To get renders on par with earlier versions of Poser, turn off Gamma Correction in the Render Settings.

As discussed, doing this doesn't create a matching render. Unless I'm missing something obvious. Wait till you see the problems I'm having with face_off's skin shaders and all these settings, it looks even worse!

In that first comparison image you posted, the poser pro render looks cleaner and more real to me here.

Quote - In that first comparison image you posted, the poser pro render looks cleaner and more real to me here.

I agree, but that's not the point.

The point is, Poser Pro was set up in a way that should have matched the Poser 7 render. My opinion is that this is an unwelcome development. I think it's great that PPro can make renders that we couldn't achieve in P7, but it ought to produce the same results with the same settings, same textures. same lighting, same shaders etc., especially since the OpenGL preview is near enough identical in both versions.

This causes me real concern: it means either that there's something set in my system that's causing this, or that SmithMicro have screwed things up.

I've started a new thread to deal with this here: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2739404

It does, IF you set the gamma properly, and I believe this is even covered over at poserpro.net

http://www.poserpro.net/New_Index_9000.html

New version, new things to learn, plain and simple.

After reading it, it's hard to teel if I'm seeing what you are actually seeing.. for instance, if you have a crt and are rendering on that, on a lcd monitor, that could look quite different.

When I got my lcd a few months back, all my prevous stuff looked quite bad in some cases.

My lcd is about 800 times brighter then my old crt monitor. I turned not only it's brightnes settings down, but then also even turned dwon the r/g/b settings as well, so it wasn;t so bright. And odds are, someone else with a new lcd is going to have thier turned up very bright compared with my settings.

Basically, they've just given us another "in app" tool to adjust things that we might have done in post with poser 7.

Quote - This causes me real concern: it means either that there's something set in my system that's causing this, or that SmithMicro have screwed things up.

They screwed things up! I've got the same results from P7 Pz3s in Poser Pro.

Why should the PP renders match P7? 
It's a new piece of software (well, sort of), I wouldnt' have an expectation things would match. They probably did some internal fine tuning in the way a renderer or the lights or something is handled.

Hmmm could be there is something amiss. has anyone tried just loading the old pz3, saving it back out, clearing the scene, and reloading that new one? Wonder if the renders would be the same between them?

Quote - Why should the PP renders match P7? 
It's a new piece of software (well, sort of), I wouldnt' have an expectation things would match. They probably did some internal fine tuning in the way a renderer or the lights or something is handled.

I simply expected it because since I started using Poser 4/ProPack seven years ago and always upgraded to the next version they matched the previous. Maybe every good thing has come to an end ...

Well personally i don't mind too much if it doesn't match. What is more worrying is that we heard nothing at all about this, from either SM or the beta testers. So either this is a 'feature' that got added just before release or it's the symptom of a much bigger problem. Either way, it's gonna be a bit of a PITA doing re-renders to make the lighting and shading the way i need in all my P7 scenes.

Quote - Basically, they've just given us another "in app" tool to adjust things that we might have done in post with poser 7.

I don't agree with this at all. The crappy, one value gamma control they'v added is pretty much useless for gamma correction. Tone mapping requires way more control then that, at the very least you need an exposure control, a way to properly squash brights down to visible range and a way to add saturation and contrast back into the map.

For comparison, this is what a tone mapper of Photoshop looks like:

And this is one from mentalray:

Yet all we got in PPro is err this.

Can you honestly say that the PPro one even comes close to what is available in other apps, much less a replacement ?

Those comparisons are hardly like-with-like.   With Poser Pro, the gamma option is one of a number of options to be applied at the point of creation of the basic image.   In Photoshop, the tools are for the manipulation of that basic image, i.e. after its creation.   They aren't doing the same thing and to expect any level of Poser to duplicate Photoshop's features is ridiculous.   I have a pretty long-in-the-tooth version of PS which was far from cheap - I don't think it has got any less dear in the meantime.

Who ever said Poser Pro was a replacement for Photoshop???

It's NOT? I thought poser pro would do all my postwork for me?

And cook my meals....

As far as testers commenting, I never even cared to look if P7 renders looked identical to Poser Pro's.. my concern was that I could do better renders faster.

Tone mapping is supposed to be rooted to rendering in high dynamic range, along with gamma control.
And it is customary to do that independent of the "master" render, so the original remains untouched, mapping tones depending on the needed medium (film, print, etc).
Tone mapping in Poser would suppose re-rendering X versions of the same thing for each different medium you would need, which is not very "Pro".
BTW if you don't have/like photoshop, you can tone map in picturenaut (which is free).

Quote - Those comparisons are hardly like-with-like.   With Poser Pro, the gamma option is one of a number of options to be applied at the point of creation of the basic image.

Gamma correction is just one small part of tone mapping that is supposed to be applied as a whole package of tweaks, not a single number like poser does it. Why else do you think all the renders being posted by the people using it are washed out and crappy looking ? To fix that you need all the other parameters that i showed you in the pix. You esp need exposure, without which gamma is worthless and will flatten the heck out of your lighting.

Quote - I have a pretty long-in-the-tooth version of PS which was far from cheap - I don't think it has got any less dear in the meantime.

So PPro users are expected to have $4k copies of MAX, Maya and XSI but not a $900 copy of Photoshop ? And apps like HDRShop and picturenaut are free and will do the same thing, i just posted the 'pro' ones to be fair.

Quote - Who ever said Poser Pro was a replacement for Photoshop???

SM sure as hell are pushing that lousy gamma as some kind of miracle slider that will free you from having to do any postwork on your work. It's listed as a whole amazing new feature if you look at their site, when in reality it's not even the left toe of one.

Quote - As far as testers commenting, I never even cared to look if P7 renders looked identical to Poser Pro's.. my concern was that I could do better renders faster.

I'm not trying to pick on the beta testers, i know how hard it is to test any app in the limited time you get. My thinking is more that SM pulled a fast one on you guys. And in my testing i'v not seen huge amount of differences in render times, so it would be helpful if you could give some more details here about what kind of scenes have been faster for you.

And 'better' is very very subjective. Maybe some people like the washed out / clipped renders people are getting with PPro, maybe some don't. Either way, there is no new render feature in PPro (like GI or area lights etc) that can be called 'better' IMO. It's mostly just reworking of the same old stuff we've had in P7 and trying to make it sound 'cool' with little practical benefits.

Obviously you haven't seen my posts again and again, that you have to use the 64 bit background renderer on a 64 bit system to see render speed increases. I see about a 50-60% render speed increase here.

And while you might want a uber gamma correction tool, you don;t even have that built into the pro applications.. they all use photoshop as well for final image correction.

Quite a number of enhancements and bug fixes are also under poser pro's render hood.. improvements to displacement rendering, improvements on dynamic hair, and normal displacement rendering as well.

I only got Poser Pro for the 64bit Firefly render engine and the render speed is really much better. I switched to Vista 64 recently and saw already a huge improvement regarding render speed in P7 compared to XP 32 and with the 64bit Firefly it's even faster. One scene that took about 3 hours to render in P7 takes only about 15 minutes in PPro with the 64bit Firefly thingie. Of course you need to render to background, hitting the render button only starts the 32bit Firefly.

The displacement is much stronger as in P7. When using face_off's skin shader I have to either remove the displacement map or set it to a very small value. Otherwise I'm getting very funny patterns on the skin LOL

I noticed the differences because I wanted to render some scenes at a size and resolution that made P7 crash. I wanted to get some poster prints of some of my renders and needed bigger size and resolution. But I am not happy about the differences iand it's not funny to tweak the lights or the skin shaders or whatever to get similar results. And the Gamma thingie doesn't help much either.

And just to repeat it all over again: they did not fix the transparency bug in Poser Pro - it's still there.