apply it to anything you want.

lmao....peaches?

at the moment i was thinking of that newly locked thread down below

Damn, Dave, I was just about to make a new thread titled, "See what I mean?", but you beat me to it. ;-)

lol me too especially as I had just written an essay as a reply....... I hope I don't get a warning as I never mentioned anyones name and I landed up getting bashed.

People didn't seem to grasp the fact I wasn't complaining about the negative comment. If I was I'd have been in every 5 minutes considering I have over 400 images in my gallery and I've grown from that. I've said so many times I've learnt from negative comments. Only yesterday I had one and I thought right I'll remember that when I do another pic. It was the fact this was done purely for insultive/trolling purposes....and not just to me....and it was the fact that it was done to others that made me post. I'll just keep quiet next time.

lol great minds think alike huh?

Quote - at the moment i was thinking of that newly locked thread down below

You mean the one where the word "moderation" was used, while "consideration", "discussion",  or even "pow-wowing" would have been better choices? ;-)

if it wasn't for the fact Rendo is pretty much the first Poser community I joined up with..well PFO first and the Poser email group ... I would leave in a minute because of the way things are moderated around here. You can't be expressive or open .. it creates problems, plus always results in tension. Rendo is probably the best place for information as well, although it has been stifled a lot by not being able to show other sites new stuff.

anyway, back to the issue at hand, points are often misunderstood or taken in a direction not intended online. I've seen it so many times.

Moderation is the process of eliminating or lessening extremes. It is used to ensure normality throughout the medium on which it is being conducted.

now there it is in a nutshell...we don't need no extremists or anything not normal.
That's why artists and creative people object to such attempts. isn't that just peachy

Cultural assimilation ?

Normals boring!

Quote - ...t creates problems, plus always results in tension.

That's not necessarily true. I belong to some forums where there's very little along the lines of thread locking and such, where the people self-moderate, and things rarely get out of hand.
Flaming is interesting for only so long, and most people will just get tired of it, or get put in their place so bad they disappear.

Here, however, they lock threads, people get pissed off about it, then start new threads to complain about it, others come in defending the act... and so it goes, the whole cycle stands a good chance to be repeated, when it would have just died down, otherwise.

IMO, the proper "moderation" for that thread (if it even needed any) would have been to move it to the community forum, since it was, after all, kinda OT, and not entirely a Poser thing, not to just lock it.

Oh well, fuck it. ;-)

lmao @ fuck it...

lmao...

well, you can just go lie in a big tub of peach juice, as I am. Its really the pits. and peachy.

Yeah...most threads will iron themselves out, or die off when everyone is tired of the dramatics. the thread in question was really low key and didn't need moderating at all. seemed to be locked at a whim for whatever reason.

Quote - ...seemed to be locked at a whim for whatever reason.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. ;-)

OMG - I was just going to make a thread about that too.  I wonder if someone can tell the new forum coord that not every thread where there is the slightest bit of debate needs to be locked.

"Mwahahaha I have a new lock thread button, I shall use it constantly!!!!!"

This place is getting very whoa -
perhaps they will implement Newspeak soon....

What?  thread got locked, and I din't even get to participate?  I didn't even get to read it...
Now that's just peachy! 

[Dayumn, I missed an opportunity to test my freshly sharpened claws... kitty slumps over]

JJ, wanna pretend fight?

sorry connie Apparently under new management and I couldn't so much as disagree with you without a thread lock.

""Now if a Mod does happen to see you, just lay down, roll over and give your privates a good licking. They love it! ""

lmao JJ ain't that the truth!

Quote - sorry connie Apparently under new management and I couldn't so much as disagree with you without a thread lock.

""Now if a Mod does happen to see you, just lay down, roll over and give your privates a good licking. They love it! ""

Yeaaa... He's new and eager to do his job right... we should cive him some slack ;) ...maybe

We can go and have a pillow fight under the table, where he can't see us right away :tt2:

Ok, ok, guys, be nice to the new staff.  If I let y'all scare them early, they run away and never come back ;)

Seriously, though, to be honest with you, while I wouldn't have locked the thread (Or moved it to the CC), I think Diadalos did the right thing by getting in there before the the thread went in an argumentational direction. 

So, I think we should move on.  As for the aforementioned post, the comments may have been harsh, but they're not exactly trolling.  The commenter, while being harsh, was giving a critique.  If any member does not want harsh critiques from other members, they are encouraged to select the option to not get critiques of your image.  Otherwise, I'd say be prepared to hear things you don't want to about your artwork.  There is a difference between harsh critique and trolling.  Trolling is more like "Yeah, she looked like your mom did last night in my bed" or something equally idiotic and/or insulting. 

Jeni

My points being missed again Jeni. If I was moaning about harsh critique or things I didn't wanna hear about my artwork then I'd be in hear everytime someone had left a negative comment on my work. And I wouldn't be a member of the critique forum. The fact is this guy is going around a ton of gallerys doing whatever u wanna call it what he's doing. Surely you don't see a pattern? What he said was not constructive or even harsh criticism. It was insultive. As is his stuff on other galleries. Anyway as previously stated....it wasn't until others said they had had him troll them that made me post. i won't bother being concerned for them in future.

Sometimes criticism can seem insulting, especially to the artist, but most times, an honest critique of someone's work is just that, criticism.  Just because it's not a glowing review does not mean he's actually being rude or insulting.  It just means that it's probably not what you want to hear.

Originalkitten,
I'm sorry it really does look like your point is falling on deaf ears now.  To me "Another fairy in big boots?...."  is not a critique at all.  I would think if this person was actually critiquing than there would be instances of him saying something was good - somewhere.  Instead going around the galleries saying something absurdly negative on each.

I guess we could look at it from another angle.  There are so many BS "oh my it's so fabulous ***** 5STARS"  in the gallery - maybe this guy represents the bad balance to that.  While often we complain about bogus comment club praises in the galleries, this is really the same but opposite.

I would love it if Rendo would implement something so you could block some users from commenting your images at all.  Then we could do away with the good and bad comment club all together - they are both equally insulting I think.*

*I guess that would give some the chance to be very thin skinned and allow only a select few to praise them to high heaven, but I think most would just block people who weren't looking anyway or being jerks.   The beligerant hobo isn't normally allowed to wander the live art galleries either =D

Seriously, here's a thought...has anyone sitemailed the guy, asking what, exactly, it is about your work he doesn't like?  From my POV, he doesn't actually seem to be trying to insult you or your work.  He seems more like he's challenging you.  If you're unwilling to take him up on the challenge, let him know!  It's not like you have to conform to the viewing preferences of your audience.  YOU  are the artist.  Create what you want.  But, if you don't like the critique you get, it's up to YOU to let the person know.  We step in when it's REAL trolling.  This guy...might seem a bit angsty, but he's actually stated in a previous comment on your work, originalkitten, that he seeks to help you improve your work, not cut you down.  My advice is to talk to the guy, see what exactly it is that he sees is the point in the harsh critiques, and maybe even get into a dialog about this. 

I think the moderators here need to take a look at the original statement...it wasn't about the critque, but about the fact this guy is basically running rampant all over the galleries and pasting snide comments on a lot of images...more of a torment than criticism.
Do I have it right Lou ?

Dave, we can see every comment he's made...he's not actually running rampant.  In fact, he's made very few comments, and, all of them, while a bit blunt, look like constructive crit.  Now, if there's a backstory here that the staff doesn't know about, by all means, please let us know.

Also, I want to clarify something...stating, in print, that a member is running rampant in the galleries posting snide comments without showing proof is borderline, if not full-out libel.  If you want to show me the proof, I'm for it, but lets keep those kinds of comments out of this, guys.

Quote - post, the comments may have been harsh, but they're not exactly trolling.  The commenter, while being harsh, was giving a critique.

I've been thinking about this, and since I can't comment in the other thread, I'll do it here.

I don't think the comments were trolling, and so far as copy/pasting the same thing from image to image, I have no proof of that because we are unable to search a users comments in the gallery to see if they are in fact copy/pasting.

That being said, the comments weren't "critique", they were more in tune with an editorial review (an evaluation of the item) where the reviewer states their point of view for better or worse, and that's it. Not unlike you read in the paper after a new movie, play, art show or restaurant premiers.  Were they blunt? Yes. But that is typical of most editorial reviews. A review is just an honest opinion of what the person has viewed and it's not meant to be more than that.

Such comments are not meant to  help the person along in their learning by offering ways to improve their work etc.
The fact that he doesn't have a gallery doesn't mean anything. Most of us who go to a movie and review it after the fact for others, have never been in or made a movie ourselves.  You don't have to be an artist in order to enjoy looking at and reviewing art. We each know what we like and what we don't like.

Personally I think they should get rid of the "critical/non-critical" statement in the gallery and just make it "comments."  Not all comments should have to provide ways to improve something if you have an opinion about the image, be it good or bad.

Quote - Normals boring!

But But but... if we didn't have "Normals" we wouldn't have 3D Meshes!
<Grins, Ducks and Runs>

well then I guess I better keep my f'n mouth closed then,. shouldn't I ?
libel...you guys are going way off the deep end around here.
more frickin legal mumbo jumbo and bs than I ever thought possible in what used to be a nice, friendly, open site.
I feel more comfortable with a gang of rabid monks..at least they are pretty much on the same page.

i think this will be my last post on this site. no loss to any of you guys anyway, except my dollars for the powers.

Like I've said before, if you don't want me to bring it up, quit accusing folk without evidence.  If you want to leave, we can't make you stay, but, quite frankly, this is a bit much. 

i agree whole-heartily with that.
over and out

Quote - I think the moderators here need to take a look at the original statement...it wasn't about the critque, but about the fact this guy is basically running rampant all over the galleries and pasting snide comments on a lot of images...more of a torment than criticism.
Do I have it right Lou ?

If I got a comment like that guy posted, I'd be thinking, what the heck is his problem, don't like it, beat it.  Last thing I would want to do is seek contact and a conversation.

I'm weired that way, when I'm approached with negativity in the name of 'my improvement' I find it disingenuous, and anything but encouraging.

'the beatings will continue till artists improve - nah, I don't work that way. I'm not stupid enough to think that if someone gives me a compliment or two, or even thirty or so, that I've arrived and don't need to improve any more. Negative feedback about something as personal and emotional as artistic expression are very discouraging to me.

Constructive critique, and opinionated criticizing with a little veiled putdown worked in while at it are two very different things. I love the former, not just love, I eat it up. I detest the latter.

I hate the fact that if someone does this on your gallery, you can't delete or get rid of their comment (or bite their head off so they'd stay away), or block them, but just have to take it. :-
I have very low tolerance for people whom can't critique or get their point across without making you feel like crap.

There's a book about his kind of stuff, by Jay Carter - Nasty People

I've been known to get in a lot of arguments with people... and they always start with my noticing a few 'invalidating attempts' towards me or someone I care about... and unfortunately my trigger is to go into 'biting their head off' when I spot ot. (Yeah, I know not the best way to handle it)

However, my point here is, I'm not all that unique in the ability to spot and dislike someone's invalidating approach, beit veiled, euphemized or more direct. Last thing I would recommend is to engage woth someone using that approach. 

In my case there's also 'riled up past common sense point', and sometimes I do confront people like that on purpose, and use the same tactic on them. Usually they get all huffy puffy and upset. 

I havn't been a member here long and probably shouldn't comment but I just can't resist. It seems to me that if you want comments on your art that your going to get them. This is the real world and it has all types of people with varying levels of ability to communicate. That doesn't mean I would agree with  abuse or stalking, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

This thread and the other are going way over the top IMHO. Not because of the original complaint but the aftermath that has followed. The mod checked it out and determined it wasn't stalking so lets move on. We've had accusations followed by the innapropriate use of legalese and all because of a poorly writen and taken comment?  Sheeeesh

Don

Quote - I hate the fact that if someone does this on your gallery, you can't delete or get rid of their comment (or bite their head off so they'd stay away), or block them, but just have to take it. :-
I have very low tolerance for people whom can't critique or get their point across without making you feel like crap.

I would like the ability to delete comments in my own gallery too. Not that I would use it very often because I'm not easily offended when it comes to what people post in my gallery.
However, there was a situation years back where someone carried over their disagreement with me from the forums into my gallery, and literally did troll several of my images in their attempt to try and push their agenda,  which I did not appreciate at all.

I remember that I did contact a staff member about it and explained how those comments came to be in my gallery, and was told that there was nothing wrong with the comments and therefore they would not be deleted!    IMHO who are they to say they shouldn't be deleted when they aren't aware of the context or reason they were put there in the first place? I found them offensive and that's all that should matter.

Now had those comments just been randomly put there, I would have rolled my eyes and left it at that. But because I know the person went from a heated forum discussion directly to my gallery and the comments were made based on the forum thread, indicated to me that there was a personal agenda involved.

Back when the site changed to php, there was a brief window where we actually did have the ability to delete comments from our own gallery, and I took the opportunity to delete those few comments made by that one person. I haven't felt the need or desire to delete any others before or since.

If only the staff have access to the delete button, then when they are asked to delete a gallery comment, they should do it without question.

Or cases like this:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1735002&member

It just pisses me off when peole get jealous of someone else and get mean for no good reason, and take it out on someone else. What creeps! Whether they whine about elitists, or elitists get jealous of someone with lesser technical ability and better social ability getting attention.

I'm not of the thought that people should just sit and take it, and let crappy behavior go without impunity. Not necessarily go out of your way to punish, but having the ability cut them off from having any more contact with you.

""Negative feedback about something as personal and emotional as artistic expression are very discouraging to me.

Constructive critique, and opinionated criticizing with a little veiled putdown worked in while at it are two very different things. I love the former, not just love, I eat it up. I detest the latter.""

Man I couldn't agree more.  I pretty much stopped posting images here or even really showing anyone any because although I enjoy constructive critique I do dislike having every image ripped apart.  It was basically as you put it "discouraging".  I can't explain it any better I guess.

Quote - ""Negative feedback about something as personal and emotional as artistic expression are very discouraging to me.

Constructive critique, and opinionated criticizing with a little veiled putdown worked in while at it are two very different things. I love the former, not just love, I eat it up. I detest the latter.""

Man I couldn't agree more.  I pretty much stopped posting images here or even really showing anyone any because although I enjoy constructive critique I do dislike having every image ripped apart.  It was basically as you put it "discouraging".  I can't explain it any better I guess.

Yea, some people think that saying things like, I dodn't like it or I'm tired of this type of images or number of other kinds of negative feedback is critique. Not really. It's destructive criticisam which serves no other purpose then to make the criticized feel better for the moment.  I can be an exper with it, as I grew up with it, which is why most of my family is 6000 miles away and I only have contact with them about once a year. I think most people have seen me do it when I no longer care about the discussion or hurting the other person's feelings... LOL 

Some people are worried that if they get, or give an 'atta boy' that they'll all of a sudden stop growing. That's just such a crock of bull, and nothing but a cop-out for people wanting to dish out their down their nose negative attitude to make themselves feel better, with impunity or backlash.

When my stepkids or my honey do it, like if we drive by another car with a dog in it, and they het on their high hores how our dog is better looking then this other dog... They usually get an earfull from me about not being mean and acting jealous and being nice.

I get especially mad at my honey because he knows better. Hhe has a masters degree in psychology, and is a nationally accomplished swim coach. It's psych and coaching 101, you don't use negative reinforcement or putdowns to train people, or to interact with them (if you want positive results).  Even if there's a valid point there, it gets lost the second the recipient starts feeling bad because the message was couched in negativity.

Most people don't lack in beating themselves up internally, and lack encouragement to get past feeling like they're not worthy and grow. Also, not everyone has the ability, time, talent tools and whatever else it takes to become well rounded high lama artist. Just because they are not, why put them down, or point things that they are not? Usually, the result is people end up feeling bad (to different degrees, whether they show it or admit to it or not. - it's only human.)

While it's also human to be emotionally immature and use putdowns or shaming or bullying of others to make one's self feel better, what I don't like is the lack of tools to limit the exposure to negativity around here. Most places, Usenet, DAZ, I believe deviant art and a myriad other forums and online communities have a feature to ignore a user.

....okay, enough of me on the soapbox here... LOL, I can feel my head morph starting to inflate.

I'm sure nobody will like this comparison, but I don't see why everyone can't be given the right to approve comments before they get posted to our galleries like they do on ArtZone or MySpace. No need to involve a moderator at all. And if someone is in a habit of posting trolling comments, the ability to just outright BLOCK them would be a great hinderance to this nonsense.

And Dave, you do have friends here! Even if you're not on my friendslist here, you are on my Artzone buddy list.

I strongly urge everyone to shut the hell up and go drink a beer.  Possibly a few beers.  I mean that in the nicest way possible.  Thanks in advance.

ps: be kind to the environment, recycle your bottles

Quote - I strongly urge everyone to shut the hell up and go drink a beer.  Possibly a few beers.  I mean that in the nicest way possible.  Thanks in advance.

ps: be kind to the environment, recycle your bottles

Is that an invitation? Are you buying? :biggrin:

Beeer!?!

pictures invading hordes

Perhaps that isn't such a good advice, when I have a few drinks I often make the  most stupid remarks and comments, and maybe that's just what's going on here (no only in this thread, but any other overheated thread) : Most of the time people are sitting at their computer in the evening to relax after a hard day work and having some beer, wine, whiskey or whatever, are sooner agitated and no so clear in the mind, at least that what sometimes happens to me, the other day I read my post, and I think, Oh no, did I said that? and it's to late to press the delete button.
Now am I a nice person even when I'm drunk, so most of the time the damage isn't so big, it's more the stupid comments that worries me.
When you are in a pub with friends and you're getting drunk, people and friends notice that and don't take you serious anymore or saying: relax man, goto bed or words alike. But on the internet no one sees if you're drunk or high, or hyper or had a tremendous argue with your girlfriend, boyfriend, husband, wife, daughters, sons whatever, and you have to piss off to someone.
What my point is: on he internet you can't see any emotions, you can't see if someone is drunk, or someone is joking, or had a bad day, so my advice: don't get too upset by someone comments and be carefull what you write even when you're drunk. And remember: only friends can hurt you., the others don't matter.

There is a dutch  saying: children and drunk people are telling the truth, but I had some glasses of wine so don't take me too serious.

Have you all a nice evening,

Bopper.

there's a Horde now... hands Bopper a beer

Did someone say beer? my wife just asked me when I was going to bed ( it's 1.45 here) but for free beer I'm always staying!

Cheers!

Bopper.

I can't drink beer with my kidneys in their current condition but I can take a pain pill and pass out.

Whatever bakes your space cookies, man.  We here at Flesh Forge Incorporated do not condone the use of hard drugs and habit-forming pills, but we certainly can't stop you!

Beeerrrrrrr!  I'm parched after that speech!

oh, oops, I'll share.

Quote - Whatever bakes your space cookies, man.  We here at Flesh Forge Incorporated do not condone the use of hard drugs and habit-forming pills, but we certainly can't stop you!

Yeah, I said I could take a pain pill. I didn't say I would. I think I'll go have some Rocky Off Road Ice cream instead! Mmmmmm... Ice cream!