@SaintFox: I am a bit confused about the templates now. I just checked the mouth templates that came with version 0.9.121 and the current 1.2.0, and found them to be completely identical. In fact it's the same file.

On the other hand, I seem to remember checking that template and finding that it had indeed been shifted for some reason.

May I suggest that someone create a correct template for the mouth and put it up somewhere together with the rest of the templates as a separate upload? Obviously this should be corrected in the main distribution, but it seems a bit silly to have a new release just to change a single file that most people will never look at.

Or maybe we could put together a developer's pack for Antonia. There are a few things I always thought would be good to make available, but not necessarily in the main package, such as stripped down CR2s for making conforming clothes. Any other ideas?

Schecterman,

So what is Antonia missing?

Shoes! A good pair of high heeled shoes. Nothing too fancy, just an average high heeled shoe.

If you need help with the rigging, I'd be happy to lend a hand.

Quote - Any other ideas?

Can the extra ERC for the jaw and eyelids be deactivated and reactivated using poses?  If so, I think such poses might be useful inclusions in a developers' utility package.  I've encountered situations where I'd like to deactivate one or the other without permanently disabling them.

Quote - I just feel I should make some more stuff for her, since I downloaded her free and she's such a good model, so if anyone has any suggestions let me know.

Antonia could use an actual catsuit, I think.  But Les is correct: she truly needs footwear!  :laugh:

Would anyone be opposed to a skinsuit created with Dimension3D's 2ndSkin 2?

We are talking about the B (MJ) mapping here, right? SaintFox is correct, the maps are definately out of alignment.

For  the above image I extracted the Antonia-1-2-0.zip to a separate disk, and loaded the template Mouth.png from that disk, so this is definately the template in the distribution, and it's definately out of alignment.

Les, I know it's out of alignment. Sorry if I was a bit unclear about that.

What I meant to say is that from all I can tell that's always been the case, so that SaintFox's claim that she had made a correct texture using that template confused me. It's possible that she used a different template that for some reason didn't make it into the distribution.

In short, if anyone's making textures, they shouldn't use any of the Mouth.png templates from any of the Antonia releases so far.

Cage,

Quote - Can the extra ERC for the jaw and eyelids be deactivated and reactivated using poses?

Yes the way ERC for the jaw and eyelids is implemented is a royal pain in the backside. The problem as I see it, is that the rotations drive the morphs, so when you rotate the joint the morph must get expressed. IMHO, it should be the other way round, the morph should drive the rotation.

If it was done that way, there are two advantages. Applying the morph would retate the jaw, but you could rotate the jaw without expressing the morph, and thus make a correction. The other advantage is that it would be easy to add an ERC dial  to disable the slaving. Yet another advantage is that you could have multiple mouth open morphs that all drive the jaw.

I'll look into all this, and see what I can come up with. I had been meaning to do this anyway, just needed a push to get round to it.

Wow, a lot of posts since I last checked in...lol.

ooopsie...Meant to add @SF: I didn't notice it on Nicol for Antonia and the testers here on Rendo didn't flag it either.

I'll check it tomorrow if Mom's nurse and other daily things leave me some time. :)

Cage: Do you want to open the mouth without rotating the jaw or the other way round? There's a channel in the Body actor called JCM-MouthOpen which does the opening of the mouth and is slaved to the jaw rotate. You can use that channel by itself to steer the morph, or you can break the slaving to rotate the jaw by itself.

I can't quite understand why that setup would constitute a pain in any body part. :laugh:

Having multiple mouth open morphs is such a terribly idea that I shudder just thinking about it.

The ERC for the eyelids is a little bit more convoluted, but if you break the slaving of Head::UprLidHtRight and Head::LwrLidUpRight to the right eye's x-rotate (and the analogous thing for the left), you can move the eyes without triggering any morphs.

My main concern would be having a way to be sure that any head morphs are deactivated, without necessarily having to zero the actors.  I don't consider the setup a pain in any body part (), but I would like to have a way to deactivate it.

So I guess the above suggestions might work.

Quote - I don't consider the setup a pain in any body part ()

Oops, sorry! That was in reply to Les.

Quote - Would anyone be opposed to a skinsuit created with Dimension3D's 2ndSkin 2?

I'm not sure what that actually involves, how it works, or what you can do with it.    What is it?

Quote - Oops, sorry! That was in reply to Les.

No problem.  :thumbupboth:

Quote - I don't even have the latest version. Has anything major changed as far as her topology?

The main thing, if you'remaking conforming clothes, is that some of Antonia's body parts have been renamed - this was for compatibility with Wardrobe Wizard and began with version 1.2. There's no reason not to have the latest version though, is there?

Everyone:

Here's a new version of the mouth template for anybody who wants it. Click for full size, save as Mouth.png.

(Edited to correct pre-caffeine grumpiness)

@ Cage:

A catsuit would be fairly easy for anyone, really. SImply extract the polygons that make up the existing Antonia mesh, add some edges and make some minor topological adjustments while preserving the part groups, and then extrude it out slightly, evenly on all axes.

Well, in theory. I've never tried it. ;-)

As for conforming - beats me. I barely use Poser at all anymore (although I've been using it since 2000 off and on) and know very little about how to do that properly. I do know that with a mesh of the same proportions, topology and part names, you can load the skeleton from the original figure into it through the Setup Room and do it that way, and it will even maintain working morph targets if the vertex count hasn't changed. But I'm sure that's less than ideal.

I was just planning on making some models and then let anyone who wanted to Poserize them have at it. I don't know the details of all that stuff and don't really have the time to learn.

@ Les:

You would have to say high heels, wouldn't you? ;-)

Last time I tried that it was a disaster because first you have to export out the foot in the posed position for the modeling, also with the toes morphed to fit (not spread out, that is to say), and then model, symmetrize, import and then parent to the posed foot...

Well I guess it's not that bad, but last time I tried it just aggravated me. It was a long time ago though. I'll see what I can do about that.

@ English Bob:

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll have to get the new version to see what the new part names are. As I said though, all I can really do for Poser is model, and have no idea how to do proper conforming clothes. I use Softimage and Maya at work and Softimage and Modo at home, and don't get much time to mess with Poser, much as I'd like to learn its finer points. Maybe one day.

Quote - I was just planning on making some models and then let anyone who wanted to Poserize them have at it.

With that in mind, the body part names aren't important. Antonia's body shape hasn't changed recently, to the best of my knowledge.

There are plenty of people in this thread that can deal with rigging. Let's continue Antonia's community-centred ideology. Your modelling will be gratefully received, so have at it, indeed. :)

@Schecterman

There is the QS for Antonia, available at EnglishBob's site, as a starting point for a catsuit.

Quote - @ Cage:
A catsuit would be fairly easy for anyone, really. SImply extract the polygons that make up the existing Antonia mesh, add some edges and make some minor topological adjustments while preserving the part groups, and then extrude it out slightly, evenly on all axes.

Well, in theory. I've never tried it. ;-)

Yes.  I've made garments that way.  I didn't enjoy the process and wasn't very good at it.  So I keep hoping someone with more skill/better tools/the right aptitude for the job will come along and make a catsuit for Antonia.  Alas, no one has.  :lol:

I've never actually made any clothes even though I did download several Quicksuits.

Time is my main problem right now or I'd give it a try.

Quote - > Quote - Would anyone be opposed to a skinsuit created with Dimension3D's 2ndSkin 2?

I'm not sure what that actually involves, how it works, or what you can do with it.    What is it?

It basically just takes the original geometry and scales it up just enough to be an outter layer over the original. For commercial products you couldn't redistribute skins suits made that way, but since Antonia is already free it was a thought. It copies the original rigging automatically.

Quote - It basically just takes the original geometry and scales it up just enough to be an outter layer over the original. For commercial products you couldn't redistribute skins suits made that way, but since Antonia is already free it was a thought. It copies the original rigging automatically.

The main problem with that will end up being the genital crease from the main mesh, unless the process smooths such things out. 

odf, your are right - I just took the inner mouth template out of the Antonia-0.9.121.zip - and it is exactly the same I find in the most recent version of Antonia. So it looks as if either Leo corrected it or someone from this thread sent me a corrected version. In fact: I can't remember! Sorry, but it's been a while since I made Toni Polygon and that was the reason for asking here - at the moment there is so much to do and to prepare since Leo is coming back on May 3rd (YAY!!) that I get confused pretty easily.

But however - I could upload the working template but EnglishBob was faster, thank you a lot! Would you, EB, mind to upload the template to the Freebie site, maybe directly where the base figure can be downloaded? Just for the case that someone (else) picks Antonia up to create textures for her but did not follow this discussion (completely).

Oh and: Count me in as another Antonia-admirer who would like to have shoes in different variations!!

Quote - Would you, EB, mind to upload the template to the Freebie site, maybe directly where the base figure can be downloaded?

I wouldn't mind at all, except that I have no idea how to do that. I didn't even know I could do that, unless I'm missing something...

The template has no artistic merit and an identical one could be made by anybody. It's public domain as far as I'm concerned.

Quote - There is the QS for Antonia, available at EnglishBob's site, as a starting point for a catsuit.

Thanks for the reminder, Bob. I've added a link to the quote of your post.

You just have to create an account (painless and spamless) and go to the member area to upload something. But if you do not mind I'll upload the template for you, okay?

Quote - The main problem with that will end up being the genital crease from the main mesh, unless the process smooths such things out. 

Should be easy enough to pull out those few vertices, yeah? ;0).

Laurie

Quote - Should be easy enough to pull out those few vertices, yeah? ;0).

Theoretically, yes.  But the matter is complicated by the thigh JCMs, which affect the genital area.  Smooth out the crease, as morph or on the geometry, and the JCMs still recreate it to some extent, causing a cameltoe effect with leg bends.  :unsure:

I'm not saying, "Don't try it!"  :lol:  By all means, do.  A second skin catsuit could be good to have available!  But unless the D3D program compensates for the genital crease, there will be these same problems that others have already had, when trying similar things.

Quote - But if you do not mind I'll upload the template for you, okay?

Okay! Please do.

Done! :biggrin:

http://antonia.bluecho4u3d.com/database/sites/base_figure.htm

Oh, I discovered that PhilC's WR comes with PoserPro2010 so now I have it!

And I was such a good girl for doing Spring Cleaning, I even got Poser 8. :)

So now I need some time to figure out how to use it and I'll have some nice outfits for my Toni girl too.

Quote - > Quote - It basically just takes the original geometry and scales it up just enough to be an outter layer over the original. For commercial products you couldn't redistribute skins suits made that way, but since Antonia is already free it was a thought. It copies the original rigging automatically.

The main problem with that will end up being the genital crease from the main mesh, unless the process smooths such things out. 

No, unfortunately it is a true 2nd Skin with all the dips and bumps in their original places.

Yep, it's included - I was not aware that you did not have WW2 so far, otherwise I would have pointed you to it. All you need are the plugins for the desired figures (that are not included in PoserPro/8). Unfortunatly I am not aware and most of all it seems that I am not able to find out, which figures are supported with the WW2 that ships with PoserPro...

@SF:Yes, I'll have to check it out and maybe I can get the plug-in for Antonia but that will need towait...sigh.

I know where PhilC's site is but unfortunately I didn't have the money to buy it so this is a real treat to get the copies of Poser with it included.

Now it's just a matter of getting the plug-ins as finances permit. :)

@SteveJax:How do you make a body suit that way?

Do you just cut the head and hands off or use trans maps?

I've just barely gotten started on this, but the first thing I began with was to eliminate much of that detail and then create new topology bridging the gaps. (See attached screen shot)

You can still see the seam in that area, but I haven't begun adding new edge loops and smoothing it out yet.. I did the same thing for the navel and her butt too, adn will elevate the geomery around the breasts as well, to get it to look more like actual clothing and not just a full body paintjob. ;-)

For those who will undoubtedly want to bring back the detail - and I know they will, lol, there will be plenty of new edge loops there to create morph targets for it.

I'm also planning on creating new geometry for fabric wrinkles as well. I'm not sure though if any wrinkles should be a part of the base mesh or flattened and just there for morphing. I suppose I'll figure out a balance between the two ideas.

This is just a WIP still obviously, but it's coming along well I think. I started on some high heel shoes for her too, but decided to do the catsuit first since it will be easier and quicker.

Edit:

Although it may not look it at first glance, that is a separate mesh, it's just very close to the original mesh. You can see around the wrists where it's slightly larger.

@BE - ah-bah, that nasty money thing. I am so used to it as well (and sooo fed up with it!). And... I think you need the figure support for the figures you want to convert FROM as well. It may sound silly that I do not know this exactly but I use Wardrobe Wizard since years and collected support files since years as well - as soon as I bought a base figure or downloaded a free one I've picked up it's WW-support... but I think that it works this way. If you want to convert from let's say V4 to Antonia you will need the set containing V4 as well as long as you do not find her data in the WW2's folder  in the Python library.

None of the Daz figures support files are included in Poser 8 or Pro.

But almost all (if not all) of the G2 and the Alyson and Ryan figures are.

That is fine by me as I really don't have a lot of Mil figure clothing. :)

I will need to get the support file for Antonia and I intend to go to Phil's site and check how much it costs. Then i'll see if I can start a little fund for it.

Quote - I've just barely gotten started on this, but the first thing I began with was to eliminate much of that detail and then create new topology bridging the gaps. (See attached screen shot)

Looking good!  :thumbupboth:  What are you using, to do this?  I used Wings, but found that a bit awkward (which is surely just me, since Antonia was built in Wings).

Quote - Looking good!  :thumbupboth:  What are you using, to do this?  I used Wings, but found that a bit awkward (which is surely just me, since Antonia was built in Wings).

Thanks, Cage.

I use Maya and Softimage at work and Softimage and Modo at home. The screenshot above is in Softimage 2012. I've been slowly using Softimage more and more and Modo less and less and I haven't even wanted to upgrade Modo to 501.

I tried Wings years ago but have no idea how far it's progressed since then.

Cage, Schecterman...Quick Suit for Antonia...just saying.

Yep, that looks really good!! Wrinkles and creases sound interesting as well...

BE: Here's the Antonia Support for WW2

8,75 $.... not as expensive as a an average dress

Is any version of Miki included in the support data that comes with PoserPro? I found that Miki clothes are easier to fit to Antonia then V4 clothes.

Quote - Cage, Schecterman...Quick Suit for Antonia...just saying.

What do you mean by "Quick Suit for Antonia"?

And thank you too, Saint Fox. :-)

I still haven't decided what to do about wrinkles. I suppose I'll make the base mesh a little wrinky and make morphs for a tighter fit and for a looser fit, more wrinkly appearance. So the base mesh will be something in between.

Quote - > Quote - Cage, Schecterman...Quick Suit for Antonia...just saying.

 

What do you mean by "Quick Suit for Antonia"?

Go here: http://www.morphography.uk.vu/dlquicksuits.html

Second one from top...shoes are effing simple too.

Wrinkles as morphs sound better to me, simply because I love everything that can be adjusted to fit my ideas

Quote -
Go here: http://www.morphography.uk.vu/dlquicksuits.html

Second one from top...shoes are effing simple too.

Alright, I appreciate the info. Maybe I'll check that out later, I already have quite a bit done on my WIP as it is.

@ Saint Fox:

Yeah, I agree, more options is always the better way.

@SF:no , none of the Miki figures  are included but most of the g2 females have the same body shape and Miki and Miki 2 have the same or similar shapes as the G2 females.

I did go to his site and see that the file is affordable within the next month so i'll be getting it. :)

And I also have some plans to do another Antonia Character/texture set in the near future.

I think wrinkles, when present in the base geometry, can actually create some distortion in the joints and lead to more difficulty with eventual morphing.  It does sound better to have them as an optional morph addition.

Schecterman,

Looking good. Antonia sorely needs a catsuit. Just one thought, it looks rather short in the legs and arms, is the finished product goint to be longer?

I think I agree with Cage on the wrinkles. There again, don't be swayed too much by what others think, you are the one actually doing the job, and are thus in the best position to judge.

Quote - There again, don't be swayed too much by what others think, you are the one actually doing the job, and are thus in the best position to judge.

Absolutely!  This is an important point.  :thumbupboth:  :thumbupboth:

Quote - Schecterman,

Looking good. Antonia sorely needs a catsuit. Just one thought, it looks rather short in the legs and arms, is the finished product goint to be longer?

I think I agree with Cage on the wrinkles. There again, don't be swayed too much by what others think, you are the one actually doing the job, and are thus in the best position to judge.

Thanks.

I was planning on lengthening the arms and legs, yeah, but only to the wrists and ankles. How much longer do you think the arms and legs should be?