I've been using Poser for quite sometime but only just started using V4. I'm still a little undecided on how I feel about the latest Vicky model. Elbow and knee poke through when adding clothes, the absolutely AWFUL scaling system, what was wrong with the old method of giving each body part X, Y and Z scales? Instead we get morph forms for lengthening her legs or sizing her head... Which most clothing figures don't take into account or plain just don't work. Same thing goes for hair, adjust the head size and adding hair be it conforming or otherwise is a PITA. Conforming hair sits in the wrong place and you're left with just parenting the model which doesn't let the hair sit right... I digress...

My point or rather question is about a lot of the fantastic texture maps that are available for her. Although I've spent a fair amount of tme in the material room I've never learnt it to a great extent, I make the odd adjustment here or there but very rarely even look at the advanced tab. There's obviously a lot more going on with the V4 figures in the advanced tab but I'm seeing nodes and connections all over the place and don't really understand what I'm looking at.

Now most of the V4 textures I've bought look stunning, the light and reflection is fantastic!  My question is how are the texture maps used to look so good? Take FRAD-Eden for example ( http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=70124 ) is this down to displacement, specular or shaders? And can it be applied to V3 models. I have a huge amount of V3 stuff and I'd love to use V4 and V3 characters in the same render but when V3's skin comes out looking flat whereas V4's skin looks "alive" the renders don't look so great.

If this effect is possible for V3, can someone point me to a tutorial that would give similar/same results or just explain to me what the term is for this lifelike looking skin?

Thanks,
(feeling like such a noob!) Fang.

First off, here is a thread that explains all nodes:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2722867

All clothing for V4 and hairs SHOULD fit in 0 pose with NO poke thru. If your getting poke thru on knees and elbows, I would choose that body part of the clothing and look for either fix morphs or adjustment morphs. Quality clothing either has jcm's fixing these issues or should have adjustment dials/morphs. If your clothing isn't fitting and you need to scale body part dials, either your not using the provided morphs right OR that clothing wasn't created for V4. Be sure to read all readme's on clothing as well.

V3 and v4's bodies are completely different so you won't get clothing to fit between the 2 of them unless you buy a program that transfers clothing from one figure to another or a magnet set to do so, which will require a lot LOT of adjusting. These are 2 completely different figures, so you will have the adjusting.

If you've happened to browse through the galleries here, you will see v4 CAN be rendered nicely time and time again....I would suggest better lighting, render settings - im not doubting your ability to render in poser, but if the results aren't what you hoped for, time to try something different.

Maps for v4 cannot be applied to v3 as the mapping isn't the same. I agree freja and Adiene's character skins are amazing as well !

Wishing you the best of luck!

Hi, thanks for the reply.

I've been using morphs and magnets since they were introduced to Poser. Zero pose, zero morphs, clothing fits just fine. I'll use RMTH Lara for V4 as an example. Using the exact same morphs that she uses on the V4Bodysuit again works fine until she's posed. (btw this isn't just happening on the Lara character) then the elbows poke through the suit. I've tried using custom morphs with magnets, reducing the scale of the elbow. Nothing seems to work. This isn't a problem if the suit isn't transparent or the suit is sleeveless but that then limits me. No matter what character set I use, the elbows ALWAYS stick through as soon as she's posed. I had nowhere near this amount of problem with V3.

I must admit I haven't played with the JCM's much so I'll give that a go later.

I appreciate that the 2 models have different geom and am well aware that the clothing from one wont fit another. I have loads of V3 clothes and props and I'm starting to build a library of stuff for V4 too.

I'm not sure you really understand what I'm asking here... But that's most probably down to me explaining things incorrectly.

I know maps for V4 will not load on V3, I also have no issue with the lighting I'm using or render settings. I have some fantastic renders of V4 and using the skin from the Eden character her skin looks more real and alive than the V3 models I'm using. I'm pretty sure that this is due to the nodes and connections used within the advanced tab in the material room. I'd like to know if this is because of shaders and if shaders can be applied to V3 in the same manor.

I've followed the link you supplied but found quite a few of the tutorials to be missing or no longer available. If I can understand the term behind the more lifelike skin I should be able to search for a tutorial a lot easier.

I do appreciate your time in answering my question, I just don't think I explained myself very well. 

I'm at work right now. I might be able to explain things a bit better with some images when I get home.

There are a couple of poser python scripts that add 'realism' nodes and whatnot to spiff up skin textures. Bagginsbill has one that is free. So you might want to look in that direction to update older textures.

Are you remembering to Magnetise yoiur V4 clothing? she has built in joint deformers you have to apply to the clothing so it behaves as its supposed to. if it still doesn't fit in default shapes, then you need to look at fix morphs and whatnot

As far as scaling parts goes .. poser has never done well with conforming items after scaling parts. that's something you're going to have to fuss with every time

Lyrra

Whilst you can't use V4 skin textures for V3 because of the different mapping, you can transfer any material shaders (for example those that come with a V4 character you have purchased) on to any other figure, using the target figure's original texture maps (colour, specular, bump) plugged into the new shader.

You could do this manually. But bagginsbill's VSS freebie (Versatile Shader System), once it has been set up for use with V3, would enable you to do this with a single button click for each V3 character you have.

Or am I still missing the point?  :O)

A thought:

Someone may well have already made their own V3 VSS Prop, and Someone might be kind enough to share it with you!

Actually bagginsbill's VSSPropPR3 out of the box can be used with just about any human figure.  I have used it successfully with V3, V4, M3, M4, Stephanie Petite, Miki and Miki2.  With modifications, I have even applied it to Nybras and Grotto's Vampire.  As for texture swapping between V3 and V4, use 3D Universe's Texture Converter 2 found at DAZ3D:
http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/texture-convertor-2?item=7802&_m=d

It does a decent job remapping textures with minimum fuss.  The link below is my own image, V4 sporting a V3 texture: 
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1827909

If you are looking to enter the realm of enhanced shader texturing, look into BB's Shader system (threads found here in the forum and they are rather extensive) and learn how it may be applied to your needs.

The scaling issue still annoys me though. I like to shrink the heads of my characters a bit but my only solution with hair is to shrink the scale of the whole hair model, place it accordingly and parent it. but then the hair doesn't drape correctly. That being said, my main issue was the elbows and joints. I can live with the other issues but I just can't understand why daz moved away from the tried and tested X,Y,Z sacaling of older models.

Thankyou for the other replys guys, I'm just off to try your suggestions, will reply back shortly.

Thanks again Poserchick.

Oh good- glad at least some small tidbit of helpfulness came out of that, lol =)

I really didn't explain myself very well in the first post, I should have waited until I could post pictures!

I am not trying to apply a V3 texture to V4 (although having re-read my first post I can understand why you'd think that's what I was asking) I want, if it's possible to apply the same process in the advanced tab of nodes and conections that a V4 model uses on a V3 that uses it's own texture and I'm wondering if it will give similar results.

These nodes and connections are called shaders? Or am I barking up the completly wrong tree? I want to make sure I have the right terminology. Are shaders specifically made images  or are they the result of using the nodes in the material room... As you can see I DON'T GET IT! lol =) I've added an image of a V4 model with an "alive" skin texture that uses nodes and a "flat" one that doesn't.

After using the VSSprop I had a look in the advanced material room and there was like eleventybillion nodes set up! But it doesn't really give the result I'm looking for (I made no adjustments, it was just out of the box)

You could just copy all the nodes from one figure to another in the material room - copy, select all, paste...then make sure the right texture maps are on her - that's probably how I'd do it

LOL @ eleventybillion

Is this down to the node setup under the advanced tab that the VSSprop created? Can I just copy the nodes from the V4 image using the V3 textures or am I missing something here?

Bingo!

You've just answered the question before I'd asked it =) lol.
I'll post a copy paste result in a few...

cheers!
Fang.

That VSSProp result on the right does not look correct.  Which Poser version and VSSProp are you using?  That image on the right needs to be Gamma Correction applied.  That is the reason why it looks that way.  It appears to be overcorrected.

I'm using Poser7 and prop pr3

Good.  At least now we know how to approach some solutions.  To answer your question, shader nodes from other V4 characters can be incorporated for V3 use.  However, some shaders are designed to be used under particular lighting settings which may not work correctly all the time.  For example, Face_off created skin shaders based on lighting set ups.  Change a light and you would need to rerun the shader script.  The VSSProp developed by bagginsbill uses a different dynamic to not only apply shader nodes to skin texture but apply Gamma Correction and AO to the material as well.  This adds a little more realism to the renders.  There are at least 3 VSSPropPR3 in circulation, the original, the second with no gamma correction and the third with no AO. 

In your case, Poser 7 needs Gamma Correction applied to all materials in your scene.  Bantha has put out an excellent Python Script which adds the necessary nodes in the material room.  Link below.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2773679 
This is a must have for your particular Poser version. 
Gc should also be applied when using VSSPR3 for all versions of Poser except PoserPro.  That value should be equal to 2.2, that is the gold standard for all digital cameras, scanners, printers and the internet. 
Below is a link my most recent gallery upload using Stephanie Petite and a skin texture that is several years old used with BB's VSSProp:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1903015

Sorry for the delay in getting back. Busy weekend with only limited Poser playtime =)

The copy paste of an existing V4 nodes onto a V3 character gave some pretty good results but as expected it's not 100% perfect, It still gives a good result and let's me mix V3 and V4 in the same scene without one charcter looking vastly different from another. I've only tried copying 1 particular V4 set, I may get better results by trying with one of the other V4 textures I have.

Thanks for the informative post Hborre, I've learnt a lot about the material room over the last week. depending on setup it can give some fantastic results and effects! I got as far as downloading the GC script you linked but not really had a chance to properly try it. Exactly when do I run the script? Do I run the VSS script first and then the Bantha script? Should I continue using the PR3 prop or should I go to one of the older props?

Thanks again for your time.

By all means, continue using The VSSProp for texture enhancement on your characters.  But do not use the GC script on those characters.  The purpose of the script is to add the necessary Gc nodes to all other props and objects in your scene.  You may possibly check the material room for proper placement; there are times when the script and object may not agree with the node logic.  As for the workflow, you could use several approaches which may work easiest for you.  For example, add your props and objects, apply the Gc script, then introduce your characters applying VSS last.  Or treat your characters first, save them out as .cr2 or .pz2, build your scene, then import them back in when everything is finalized.  Currently, I am using PoserPro which already has Gamma Correction built into its render engine.  I do not need to apply any further corrective action to my texture material; the software does it for me. 

Indeed, continue using the VSSPR3 prop, it is the best of the other versions.  And although it looks undaunting in the material room, it is also easier to use.  As you learn more about the material room and shader nodes, you will find yourselve checking each and every object you introduce into your scene for improvement.  Many vendors give you the basics, others will give you the kitchen sink!  It is ultimately up to you to decide if you are satisfied with the store bought package or whether you can improve on the product to give you the desired look you are seeking.