How do i fix this?

(I have deleted ring finger as you see no finger exists, and adjusted bone placement to match geometry)

Are you sure your finger bones are still parented correctly? I would go through and reparent them just to be sure. Also you might check to see if the joint rotations (xyx stuff) is still correct for each joint to match your other fingers.

You have to be pretty careful when deleting bones, because sometimes the selection will change unexpectedly if you are near the bottom of the list.  You click on an item and the selection will jump to the one above(?) it.

i wasnt anywhere near the hand bones when deleting, so i know there was no risk of jumping the selected bone when deleting them but....

do i have to do something i addittion to what ive done? phantom, u mention parenting... when i am n the setup room and have my mesh and bones, i leave he room and all the bones are on the new figure, do i haveto parent anything?

I'll check the structure of the characters parenting list, but if this is the issue, would i start selecting the mid3 and parent it to mid2 and then mid1 and then hand? Is that how i go about it?

I would open the hierarchy editor and check that the hand and fingers is correct.

Yup, second the hierarchy window.
It's also safer to delete bones through CR2 editor, no mistakes happen there...well, operator error occasionally.

Yes hiearchy window is much safer to make any parenting changes in as well. just make sure that each bone in the finger runs in the correct order down from the hand,  in the list, if not then select each bone in the list one at a time starting with mid one and drop it on its parent bone.

If your other fingers are working correctly you can see how they should look in the list.

i'm not on the right pc right no, but i can tell you, all fingers are acting like this. I will open the hiearchy window as suggested!

Looks fine to me as well.  Now check your rotation orders for the finger bones, they should be the same as the hand bone. and all the finger bones should have the same rot order.

how to i check that? joint editor? how do i check the bone vs the finger?

Yes the joint editor will list the rotation order of the selected bone (finger part) at the bottom of its window. If they are not the same for each finger part then you must select the correct order (match the hand) and apply it, but do this in the settup room because sometimes if you change the rotation order in the Pose room it explodes your mesh. Check all finger each part.

Awsome phantom. Changed all rotations to 0. works like a charm!

now I just have to play with the inner mat spheres

New piece of geometry = new problem...

I basically did the same things that I did for the gloves above for a new set of "hands" I'm working on. These are basically tentical hands. So I have just a hand, mid1, mid2, mid3....

I'm getting the same issue I had before with the parenting being off, so, I did what phantom suggested and made sure all the rots were the same.

But it didn't work. Everything looks fine the the hiearchy list too. Back to square one with this new piece. I gotta figure it out cause next I'm doing feet.

Odd................

They work fine UNTIL I conform it to the character. Then it starts acting up.

It also deforms itself once conformed.

Any ideas? Real important to me cause it's a commission piece :P

I'm gonna have to test the robo ahnds while conformed to see it I still have an issue.

When you checked the rotations, I meant for you to check the rotation orders. At the bottom of the joint editor you will see three letters XYZ and they may be in any order YZX, ZYX etc. Those three letters should be in the same order as listed for your hand on all the finger joints. If you have to change them there is a drop down list with different options. You should make those changes with the joint editor in the setup room because sometimes in the pose room your mesh will explode when you do it there. Your hand bone shouid be aligned with the arms with the endpoint towards the fingers.

I don't know what else to check if it is not the parenting or the joint rotation order. They dont happen to have any IK chains do they?

Edit:  If they are conforming, the bones centers, endpoints, and joint rotation orders must match their host figure exactly in every way, including the mat spheres, for each and every matching bone of the figure you are conforming them to. I hope that made sense. :)

How the heck do you get all those to match up? Do you write it down and go through and change all of them piece by piece? is there a software to buy?

Ouch

do the x,y,z rot #'s have to be the same as the the original figure (one it will conform to) too?

no ik

by the way, they are supposed to be conforming, but I will be hiding the geometry it conforms to. More like a replacment body part. A prop replacement with the funtionality of a figure.

Ok, I'm a total idiot.

Since i've been using these as replacement parts and hiding the body part it's conformed to, I've been moving the replacment...........

not the body part..................... which is why i'm seeing what i'm seeing..................

Thank you for all your help.

Phantom, thank you for pointing out that all the properties in the joint editor must be the saem, cause now everthing moves like it should, instead of just guess work!

I SHOULD be able to work it out from here on in.

Should...

also has a slight gap in the geometry where as, i know it fits like a glove next to each other. I built it off the geometry and the extracted the mesh, so the verticies should be smack on top of eachother. That means something is distorting them once conformed, just like the finger is doing.

Check body part offset in cr2 editor.

I do not know exactly how it works, but offset difference cause simila problems in my charactes.

I wouldn't know how to adjust it if I don't know what it does. Any more info would be great!

I think this issue might just be fixed if i play more with the mat spheres. But I'll see later, gotta get some sleep

Offset parameter appears in properties window when you open joint editor.
Moreover in cr2 editor you can set offset visible - set hidden = 0

Hi phionix,

You will need to change the naming of the finger bones And groups in your glove. You have a glove that has 3 fingers and a hand that has 4 fingers, so the bones of the fingers in your glove are never going to match the fingers of the figures hand. So when you say conform to, your glove is trying to match the pose size and position of the hand and fingers of your figure, which it cannot do, because the bones and parts are different.

But keep the hand bone the same name as your figures, that way the glove will still pop into place with the figures hands but will not try to pose the fingers.

One thing to remember when renaming your finger bones and groups is to keep the left and right naming conventions. This is so that you can use symmetry in posing your gloves. For instance in renaming the middle finger bones on the right hand you would use something like rGmid1, rGmid2, rGmid3. For the left it would be the same except using a small case l,    lGmid1, lGmid2, and lGmid3.   I am using the G just to stand for glove.  This will change the names enough that they will not try to conform to the pose of the figure, but will still follow the hand pose of the figure. Remember to give the finger geometry groups matching names to the finger bones.

Be sure that the hand bone of your gloves and the hand bone of the figure are exactly the same.

I wish I had realized you were building conforming robo hands, I would not have run you through all the other stuff. For some reason I thought they were part of a robot figure. Sorry.

Another reason that conforming the fingers of the robo hands to your figure is giving you problems is because the fingers of the robo hands are sized differently, so they cannot ever have the same centers of the fingers of your figure.

But the hand bone of your robo hands can have the same centers as your figure, and will conform just fine.

So what your saying is that because its a different size and missing digits, the names of all the bones and groups should NOT match the figure it will conform to?

I understand your saying that the new glove will try to match up with the other figure, but isnt it enough that I removed the bone for the finger it doesnt have?

btw, there are 2 differnt "gloves", the robo ones are working ok, I just need to adjust the mat spheres i think. The 2nd is the "tenticals". They are built... hand, mid1, mid2, mid3. the wrist area is exactly the same but i am seeing a deformation once conformed to the figure, both in the wrist area and the end finger.

I also have this same problem on the "feet" i'm working on.

Quote:
*Offset parameter appears in properties window when you open joint editor.
Moreover in cr2 editor you can set offset visible - set hidden = 0

*What will this do?

NO it is not OK.  IF the fingers of your gloves matched the fingers of you figures hand EXACTLY in EVERY way then it would be ok to conform the fingers of your gloves to the fingers of the figures hand. BUT they do not and never will match with the fingers of your figures hand, They are resized larger and shjifted to boot and in order to bend correctly they will have to have different centers for the finger joints. 

You go ahead and do as you wish but you will find that they will never conform as you wish. The only part of the gloves that you will be able to get to conform correctly will be the hand,

You will have to change the names of the finger parts so they will not try to conform, but keep the hand. I cant explain it any more clearly, but the Fingers of the robo hands will never conform to a different sized and positioned figure, and that goes for any conforming figure ever built. If you cannot have the centers for the bones in exactly the same place as the donor figure because of size differences, then you cannot conform them

You can conform the hand, that should work fine for you, I dont see the problem.

So then by simply changing the names of the bones (and matching parts) of the fingers this will avoid "trying" to conform, and simply try to follow the other fingers?

How do i find the true center of the new bones? or does it not matter because they are not the identical size?

Also, keep in mind for this case the original body part it will be "conforming" to will be hidden. It's just I wanted to be able to have the option of using hand poses if needed, but I guess thats not going to be the case.

At the top of the joint editor there is a little window with a dropdown list. Select a body part on your robo hands and go to the joint editor, you should see center printed in the little window, if not use the drop down to select center, then look at your robo hands, you will see a green six armed cross looking thing, Where all those 6 arms come together in the middle is the center of that bone for that body part. You can move this around untill it is centered to where you want you finger joints to bend. Each bone-joint has a center.

They should already be close if you adjusted the bones in the setup room.

So then for other products, ones that I use the original bone donor method for, when making clothing (pants, shirts, shoes), I should make all parameters the same. The mat spheres, bend, twist, side to side, everything should be identical?

Say i have a pair of pants. The overall width/length is different from the mesh, but using the same bones. All the joint editor infor should be the same to conform 100%? (just going from previous info if i understand correctly).

Sorry, again, ima-noob

You can change some things like mat spheres. But dont change the joint centers! At least not to the degree you are trying to do. A TINY little shift here and there and they will still work but you cant move them to accommodate longer arms or legs on you conforming figure for instance.

It is so very simple really, If you finger segments on your robo hands no longer match the finger segments on your original figure you cannot conform them.

If you have a pair of pants that are as you say  the knee and thigh joints of the pants is still in the same place as the figure. You cannot move the joints period get it? You cannot move them up higher or lower to fit longer or shorter leg segments.

This will have to be enough cause I'm through .

I get it, Thank you for all your insight!