RobynsVeil, what's really great about the corset above is the edge of the fabric. So much dynamic clothing has this sort of very thin, paper-gown look to it, which you have completely managed to avoid. It actually looks as though it has some weight and texture to it.

maybe she has used a displacement map for her texture?

Is the cape a single mesh?

Thank you Esther, and thank you to you too, Moriador, for your kind words. For the top and bottom of the corset, I actually added a narrow over-lapped edge of mesh, which seemed to sim okay. My challenge atm are edge-loops (selectively adding sort-of concentric topology)... how and where and biggest challenge, all in Blender, which doesn't support NGons. Yet.

Robyn, I'm jealous of you and Laurie and all the other talented folks here. eergh Jan

Quote - dont forget that you can also use dynamics for capes. i never liked conforming capes.

the cape looks great! 

i haven't tried the p8 cloth room yet.

That's nice of you to say Jan. Tbh, though, I'm very much starting out on the cloth-making journey. A lot of mystery, still, on making mesh that will either hold its shape (in the case of a corset) or drape nicely. I've decided that this is going to be the top bit of a dress - sort-of inspired by dance/medieval/not-sure-exactly what style it is... so, the top has to be relatively restrictive, with specific Dynamic Controls settings, and the skirt, almost the opposite. And the materials sort-of have to go. Embarking on a pretty wild adventure, here.

Big challenge is getting the subdivides to happen nicely in Blender. I needed a higher-density mesh around the bust, but substantially less in the tummy bit. The transition is, well, probably not the best - there are a few triangles here and there. I should probably take this next section of the discussion over to the Blender forum, since these issues are Blender-specific. Here is where mesh cutting (and BMesh - i.e., adding polygons) are still "pas tout a fait au point"... still needs a bit of work.

Believe me, tho, Jan, it's not really all that hard to get to this point:

Here is where the fun, starts, tho... this sims pretty fast, but I really am not too fond of those big tris under the bust:

What a wonderfully informative thread! Kudos to all those contributing.

I know zilch about dynamic clothing so haven't anything to add, but will hang around to learn.

"... I doubt many conforming dresses can do that".

What is that, the Terminator T1000 Bridesmaid impersonation ? I doubt many real dresses can cross that uncanny valley.

Quote - I have nothing to offer atm other than things you've probably already seen ;). Anyways...

The dress is in my ShareCG freebies for the free Angela figure if anyone wants to give it a whirl ;).

Laurie

That's a lovely dress and a great pose. Can you tell me where can you get the free Angela figure? She looks wonderful. I've searched, but I can only find Angela 2.

RobynsVeil, the extra effort in working on the trim definitely pays off. It makes a huge difference.

I like that red material!

RobynsVeil, I wouldn't worry about the tris under the bust. What you could do is just to add another horizontal line and make them a bit more even and less drawn out. 

I'm curious about the seams. You seem to get a pretty decent sense of thickness. Are all seams constrained or are some part of dynamic groups?  I've found that constrained groups over the bust can cause problems if the shape is altered. Either way what you have looks really nice.

Quote - RobynsVeil, I wouldn't worry about the tris under the bust. What you could do is just to add another horizontal line and make them a bit more even and less drawn out.  I'm curious about the seams. You seem to get a pretty decent sense of thickness. Are all seams constrained or are some part of dynamic groups?  I've found that constrained groups over the bust can cause problems if the shape is altered. Either way what you have looks really nice.

That is exactly what I found too, Grappo... I initially had made the top edge its own material and set it to be a contrained group, with horrid results. So, there are no constrained groups at all: the outfit stays up by sheer will-power, oh, and high friction numbers. Well, I sort-of think that's what's happening.

I'm totally still basically learning all this, so I'm open to anyone giving me ideas or guidance, but these values seem to work for this particular garment:

In collide against...

collision offset: .2,
collision depth: .18 (so, not a lot of wiggle room)

In Dynamic Controls...

fold resistance: 25,
sheer resistance: 120,
stretch resistance: 120,
cloth density: .0015 (not very realistic, I know, but this is Poser),
static friction: .5000,
dynamic friction: .4000

Not sure what gave me that edge mesh idea, and I'm not sure it's the best idea for simming, tbh. The top of the upper edge seems to curl away, although it looks heaps worse with a constrained group.

To achieve that effect of "constrained bosom", I set all the morphs to make her bosom look that way in frame 30, and during the sim, Katie sort-of just filled out and shaped the garment perfectly (for the most part, except for that top curl). This image and the last showed a much-cleaned up mesh, btw... it's not the ideal I'm looking for, but it's still heaps cleaner than the first go:

So, yes indeed, a long way to go with mesh design, but this is early days, isn't it? Whilst I'm tempted to add a few edge-loop areas like they do for conforming cloth to give it wrinkled sections, I suspect it's best to have high-mesh regions be uniform so that wrinkles will occur during a sim based on the figures pose rather than something "canned"... i.e., artificially set.

Oh, and thank you, Grappo!

There is another method too.. It's possible to add geometry that you later make invisible... Like some invisible parts that you constrain a bit further up on her torso that keeps it up. Can be useful to make things stay, for parts where constrained groups don't look right.

Hadn't thought of that... thank you! BTW, Grappo, happy to send you this if you want to have a play.

i we could make material groups invisible for rendering i could teach you some tricks for complex detailed dynamic clothing.

so lets hope that poser 9 will have this option.

Quote - i we could make material groups invisible for rendering i could teach you some tricks for complex detailed dynamic clothing.

so lets hope that poser 9 will have this option.

You can, and it's already been done in dynamic clothing.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2828441

@moriador:

The free Angea figure is here http://www.sharecg.com/v/51383/gallery/11/Poser/Angela

I use dynamic cloth for almost all my images, and I love it!.
In this image the skirt is obviously a dynamic cloth, but so are the boot / stockings. They are constrained only and to my surprise the calculation took less than 2 seconds per frame. I find they bend much better than conforming clothes, without any strange bulging.

Dynamic cloth suffer from one thing though, and that is no thickness.
One way to solve that is using displacement maps, like this one. The body of the cloth is dark grey, which will give it a few millimeters of displacement. The light grey will create a seam around the cloth. On the top and bottom, because of the black, the seam will go back to no displacement giving it an edge. The medium grey on the side will give a little dent in the seam where the front and back cloths join.

And yes, let's hope Poser 9 will bring some new features to the clothroom, it's getting a bit dusty in there.....

I use displacement maps too for thickness too. Very simple and very reliable. There are some hardcore modellers here though (LaurieA) who prefer modelling it, and do it quite well. 

I've been going to displacement maps too Grappo ;). Modeled seams don't work reliably in all cases. My latest dress has displacement maps only, exactly like AVANZ has described above. Yes, don't forget the black outline...lol - AVANZ has it exactly as it should look ;).

Laurie

They are really easy and quick to make too. :)

Thank you LaurieA, I was just about to ask how that works. Mine always distorted.

By painting by hand you also get more of an organic (read sloppy ;-) look.

Well, the wider modeled seams seemed to hold up better than really thin ones. Also, making them soft-decorated, especially around a hemline, could yield weird results since soft-decorated tends to stay somewhat stiff.

Laurie

but I really have to work out how to keep buttons on ~~~ rofl

Wow, thank you so much for those suggestions, all, and showing the technique as well... I'll have to  have a go!

"Loading your figure: you will want to pose her in either the default zeroed pose using the joint editor, or using whatever the cloth maker provided for zero-pose in frame 1. That's the slider thingie at the bottom of your workarea (typically). Check that your figure isn't translated anywhere from 0, both for body and for hip. Also, to start with, all morphs need to be set to zero, including custom morphs. You can do that easily with:
Menu: Edit -> restore -> Figure"

For a figure I've saved and loaded, it doesn't restore it to the original (in this case plain M4) state.

Every time I try dynamic cloth, I give up on it.  In this case I loaded a dynamic shorts (from PhilC) onto M4.  The shorts instantly conform to M4, and sit back on his hips so that his thighs are poking through.  There's no way to bend the shorts to fix the poke, and it has to be increased in size to about 1000 to not poke through - it's then bigger than M4.

Flibbits. You need to run a cloth simulation after you have posed M4. Does anyone have a link to a good tutorial?

Quote - Flibbits. You need to run a cloth simulation after you have posed M4. Does anyone have a link to a good tutorial?

I'm dedicating today to making a simple pdf with illustrations using the steps I take (outlined at the beginning of this thread)... people like images.

Great thread thanks for starting

take a gander at Philc's free cloth room presets python script found at

http://philc.net/freestuff_archive.php

If you create a group of settings you like in a certain long gown and think you might want to save them off and use in another long gown...instead of writing all the settings down...

Save the original with the settings you like off as a prop. Open the pp2 in a text editior and look all the way at near the very bottom and you will find the cloth room settings starting with:

stitchVertsGroupProperties
{

 U_Bend_Resistance    15.000000

etc

Duplicate one of PhilC's preset scripts and rename to whatever you want and use the settings from your saved off dress prop to edit the duplicate script and bingo you now can use your favorite settings on another piece of cloth very quickly vs keeping detailed notes. I have PhilC's scripts in a folder in my scripts menu folder. I can't remember if that is their default install location or not.

OK so I am lazy, forgetful and love to have tools do the remembering and do things quickly for me :m_smile:

Just spend a fine sunny June day in Bris-Vegas (a bit cold for us Aussies, actually :biggrin:) putting together a little thingie describing with pictures and circles what I use to get this weird, wonderful room to work:

Part One

If people feel this is worthwhile, I'll do part two. If not, I'll do part two. The people have a vote, this way.

ETA: oh, and anyone see huge errors, the kinds that cause catastrophes and worlds to collide and other calamities, or actually any glitches at all, please let me know - i'll fix it straight away!

ETA too: tagged for nudity not in the post but in what I've linked to...

He, he, he, I love the title.....

Well done!

For part two it might be worth mentioning that most (bought or free) dynamic clothes will have their optimal settings already embedded in the prop. So there is no need touching those settings at all. This is usually the bit that scares new users the most. All these dials and no clue what they do....

Oh, and by the way, if you think it's cold in Brisbane, come down to Melbourne. It feels like snow is in the air..... 

Quote - If people feel this is worthwhile, I'll do part two. If not, I'll do part two. The people have a vote, this way.

I'll give it a try tomorrow.  I love PDFs.  Especially ones about this subject.

Quote - For part two it might be worth mentioning that most (bought or free) dynamic clothes will have their optimal settings already embedded in the prop. So there is no need touching those settings at all. This is usually the bit that scares new users the most. All these dials and no clue what they do....

What SM really needs to do is the same they do for Render Settings. Allow you save the cloth settings. I have put this in as an enhancement request to SM twice already. :biggrin:

I have a lot of purchased items that don't have the settings embedded or to say another way they revert to the default settings.

Quote - He, he, he, I love the title..... Well done!

For part two it might be worth mentioning that most (bought or free) dynamic clothes will have their optimal settings already embedded in the prop. So there is no need touching those settings at all. This is usually the bit that scares new users the most. All these dials and no clue what they do....

Oh, and by the way, if you think it's cold in Brisbane, come down to Melbourne. It feels like snow is in the air..... 

Oh, I'm admittedly a bit of a frog now - used to like the cold in Calif, but now... brrrr. Oh, and we were in Melbourne last year, in October. The wind was unbelievable - thought it was going to blow the condo we were staying at in St Kilda to the other side of the street.

Thanks for your input - very good point. Will be sure to put it into Part Two...

Quote - > Quote - For part two it might be worth mentioning that most (bought or free) dynamic clothes will have their optimal settings already embedded in the prop. So there is no need touching those settings at all. This is usually the bit that scares new users the most. All these dials and no clue what they do....

What SM really needs to do is the same they do for Render Settings. Allow you save the cloth settings. I have put this in as an enhancement request to SM twice already. :biggrin:

I have a lot of purchased items that don't have the settings embedded or to say another way they revert to the default settings.

I might have this bass-ackwards or whatever, but it seems that if you save the cloth item as a smart prop, it seems to save settings along with the prop. Not sure which-all settings were saved, but it seemed that a lot of those in the 4. Dynamic Controls section were saved.

Quote - I might have this bass-ackwards or whatever, but it seems that if you save the cloth item as a smart prop, it seems to save settings along with the prop. Not sure which-all settings were saved, but it seemed that a lot of those in the 4. Dynamic Controls section were saved.

As far as I know, all cloth groups and dynamic controls are saved with the prop, and it doesn't have to be a smart prop. The only thing not being saved is cloth simulation settings (name, collision depth etc) and the cloth objects (what it collides with) 

This is really important since some dynamic cloth objects need very specific settings, not to mention different groups, decorated, constrained etc. All this is saved as far as I know.

This really has turned out to be an informative thread, although I have nothing to add at the moment except my praise, and I guess I might as well throw in a little gratitude as well. :)

Err, I might not have been completely right on the settings thing though. Poser 8 does save the settings with the prop, but it looks like older dynamic clothes do not have anything embedded in regards to settings.
Maybe it is only possible with Poser 8 or higher and since most dynamic clothes are, well quite dated, that could explain it.

What I would like to know is how many people actually use and buy dynamic clothes?

Quote - Err, I might not have been completely right on the settings thing though. Poser 8 does save the settings with the prop, but it looks like older dynamic clothes do not have anything embedded in regards to settings.
Maybe it is only possible with Poser 8 or higher and since most dynamic clothes are, well quite dated, that could explain it.

What I would like to know is how many people actually use and buy dynamic clothes?

<> so do I (want to know)! i certainly hope and intend that threads like this will change people's experience with this sometimes mystifying technology.

A wee update on the corset... I wanted to try to turn it into one of those going-dancing dresses I see (and envy the wearers!) on the young, but so far attaching a skirt (basically, a reasonably high-mesh circle) has turned the whole garment into an epic fail. Friction and whatever else won't keep the bloody thing up anymore - tugging won't help! - and of course contrained groups turns the thing into something from another planet - totally distorts the bosom and the sim fails at frame 14. I guess if there were some way to keep the bodice (the corset-y bit) simming the same way and the skirt simming as another material altogether, it might actually work, but I've a bit to learn about Dynamic grouping, i.e., setting all that up and whatever. I mean, would it be even possible to have two different types of materials in the same garment at the same time in a sim? Like:

Bodice: heavy satin... reasonably stiff, strong friction co-efficient, behaves like, well, above and
Skirt: gauzy, soft, floaty light taffeta or silk or whatever (yes, I take fashion risks with materials! :woot:) that won't drag the dress down during a sim

Or am I dreaming?

If you create the mesh in an external editor, apply one material to the bodice and another to the skirt. It is one mesh I assume??

In the Cloth Room, clothify the prop.

Click New Dynamic Group -->Name it Skirt
Click the group editor.
In the drop down menu choose Skirt (the dynamic group you just created) Click add material --> skirt (the one you created in the external editor)

From the drop down menu where you just created the new Dynamic group select _DEFAULT and apply the setting to the bodice as before.

Then select the Skirt DYNAMIC Group and set the settings as you wish to make it nice flowing. The cloth room, it's a miracle....

OOOOO thank YOU!, AvAnz! Just the sort of instructions I love: quick and to the point.

(Now, why are mine so wordy?)

I'll have go!! Cheers!

To clarify a bit more:

In Silo I create the mesh and the material zones.

Dark grey = constrained (So are the rings, as a separate object)
Blue = Dynamic group "stif" to keep the wrinkles as much as possible.
Light Grey = Dynamic group "transition" from sculpted to free flowing
White = _Default free flowing

In Poser I create 2 extra dynamic groups + the _Default group = 3 groups
Then I use the "add material" menu to tell Poser which vertices go in which group and change the settings for each group to my liking.

Very nice stuff Avanz!  Multiple dynamic groups can be a wonder. 

Robynsveil, don't forget you could also put some invisible fabric above the seams of your corset, and constrain the top of that part, leaving some fabric in between those constraints and the top of the corset, so that it stays up, but giving it a chance to naturally stretch and drape to the bosom. It may take some experimenting, but you can get really nice results from it.

I believe I heard somewhere that the cloth settings are saved in props from either Poser 6 or 7 and up, but I don't know for sure.

Thank you, Grappo... I haven't forgotten that sage advice, and I will definitely be doing something along those lines at some point. It's all going into my bag of tricks - this is a massively untapped area to explore, isn't it?

Still playing with those conforming items, too... there's got to be a way to sim some of the better-designed ones, such as the Wow dress. Or do you folks pretty much stay with stuff designed to be simmed, popping the conforming stuff (particularly stuff with a lot of modelled decorative bits) into the too-hard basket?

"Just spend a fine sunny June day in Bris-Vegas (a bit cold for us Aussies, actually ) putting together a little thingie describing with pictures and circles what I use to get this weird, wonderful room to work:"

Restore figure does not work when the figure is a saved figure, complete with morphs.  Restore figure does not restore such a loaded figure to the base M4.

For example:

Load M4

Apply morphs, spin dials

Save customized M4 in library

Open new scene

Load custom M4 figure

Restore - nothing happens.