Hello all,

I have a question regarding rendering IDL with the queue manager.

I had several occasions where using the D3D Firfly settings gave great results when rendering on my own computer but as soon as I apply them, save the scene and use the queue manager to render on a network computer it very much looks as if the settings are completely ignored. Strange enough: This does not happen when I use the "classic" interface to choose my render settings (I am talking about the render-settings dialog you reach over the little arrow at the preview window). If I choose the render settings here the results with the queue renderer and when rendering on my own computer are identical - except super-tiny shadow details that look a little bit different but not wrong at all - you can call it "different interpretations of the same thing".

Is anyone able to backup my impression - or am I doing something wrong?

I really can't help you but I'm interested too.   Another thing that has stumped me is why there is no GC option in D3D's script.   If I set GC on the default render settings interface and then go to D3D's render firefly to adjust the IDL settings I don't see GC enabled anywhere and yet I think it is calculated? 

...and while doing endless tests to find out about it on my own: If using the "simple" dialog gives the desired result and you use the D3D dialog anyway to try out some other settings - how do I get back to what I got with the standard settings? Somehow this seems not to be possible (or my eyes are tired meanwhile by too much looking on the small differences).

Well, one way would be to save your current settings as a preset before trying something else.

I have - but to me it looks that whatever I re-load in the standard dialog will be knocked out by D3D-script, even when I reload the settings. But as said: I may have made far too many renders and trys during the last days. My major problem is the queue renderer not working with the settings made with the D3D script.

Quote - I really can't help you but I'm interested too.   Another thing that has stumped me is why there is no GC option in D3D's script.   If I set GC on the default render settings interface and then go to D3D's render firefly to adjust the IDL settings I don't see GC enabled anywhere and yet I think it is calculated? 

 

There is a GC option in Pro2010 at the bottom of the D3D settings window...
Just underneathe the line with all the Pro output options.

I don't use the queue manager, so I can't help there.

Just remembered, that Dimension3d published a small update for the P8 / PP2010 script on his site.
I don't know,  if this update was ever included in any of the official service releases.
http://d3d.sesseler.de/index.php?software=poserpython&product=render_p8

That did the trick!   Thanks msg24_7!  And the funny thing is I had downloaded it but never installed it since I moved from P8 to PP2010 and thought that was only for P8 but it works in pro as well. 

Cool! Thanks for the hint  - as more as I thought the same as Calypso and decided to not install the update to PoserPro2010!!

Wow, that is really weird that wasn't drawn attention to. I don't even think I was aware of that update.

I am sure, many did miss this small update.
SM should have integretad this into one of their Service Releases.

Quote - Wow, that is really weird that wasn't drawn attention to. I don't even think I was aware of that update.

It was announced here when the update came out! I think it was even a sticky for a short time.

There were also some fixes listed for the script:

Quote - Line 819:
self.edit[10].SetValue(m[5])
should be:
self.edit[11].SetValue(m[5])

And

Line 901:
elif s == 24:
should be:
elif s == 23:

However The line numbers appear to be wrong. I found the first line to be changed at line 835 instead of 819 and the second line was 917 instead of 901.

That may be, but Renderosity isn't the provider of the original D3D script. This should have  been an update by Smith Micro or at the very least they ought to have drawn attention to it.

While I go through seasons of frequenting Rendo, I don't always (which is obviously why I missed the thread), and many Poser users never come here; it certainly shouldn't be the source of information for updates to stuff included with a Smith Micro app.

The script was not "Part Of Poser" made by Smith Micro. In other words, Smith Micro was not the original provider either! It was made by Dimension 3D. That's why you find it in the scripts menu under the heading for "Partners". As a partner, he did update it on his site and announcements were made.

Reread my post. The script WAS provided by Smith Micro. It was part of the PP2010 download package. I never said they created the script. But if it's part of the download package, they provided it.

Ferget it.

IMHO the big fault was to close the forums at Smith Micro as this was always the first stop when questions about Poser raised up and you had both, direct contact with the staff and direct contact with users at once. I think that Believable3D is right, at least a link or hint should be added to the site with updates making people aware of changes.

I mean: vendors here are required to add all the content to a product, we no longer offer things as bonus (what was made because file sizes where small back then) - this was done to make sure that people get full support for what they bought. The scripts came together with Poser, they where not downloaded as a free extra nor was there a choice when installing the main program to skip their installation. That's what I call native content. Most of all: If I am not completely wrong (if so someone may correct me please) all things beside the content of previous Poser versions (Sydney, James, P4 peple and so on) is core content when we talk about PoserPro 2010. The scripts (by PhilC, Dimension3d, Netherworks and so on) where nothing I could choose to install or not to install.

The rest of the readme just contains the paths and filenames. I do not post it because it's a very large document and most of all because I do not want to get in troubles because posting a complete readme.

The registration content wasn't all of the Bonus content. When Poser 8 was first advertised it was advertised as containing "Over $100 of Bonus Software & Content". The registration content was only valued at $29.95, so where do you suppose they hid the other $70 worth of bonus content if it wasn't the 3rd Party content?

I find the whole concept of complaining about something that is fixed to be quite ludicrous.

Well... this was the bonus content you've highlighted in your screenshot. Now I am curious too - may you point me to the complete bonus content?

At the moment SM doesn't advertise any bonus content, the product's sites just gives a rough overview what's included and so I would expect, that everything included would be supported by SM.

I am not complaining, I just think that it's bad advertising and most of all uses a lot of working power for nothing because people ask the support about things that could be mentioned either in the update-page or on the Content Paradie site.

Anyway: The update on the script did not solve the problem of the queue manager not working as it should but giving different results as rendering directly in Poser.

Quote - Anyway: The update on the script did not solve the problem of the queue manager not working as it should but giving different results as rendering directly in Poser.

Yes I tested it out of curiosity and noticed the same thing.   The quality of the render with queue manager is not what i have set in D3D's FFrender script.   I thought it may be me since I've hardly used queue manager and maybe I'm doing something wrong.   Need to go back and read the manual :)

Quote - ... 

Anyway: The update on the script did not solve the problem of the queue manager not working as it should but giving different results as rendering directly in Poser.

I just did some basic testing using a new scene file

1. adjust render settings using D3D Render Firefly script, send to Queue directly from script

2. adjust render settings using D3D Render Firefly script, hit "Apply", send to Queue from Poser Render menu

Comparing both temp pz3 files created by Poser, they do show all changes made using D3D script.

I'd suggest, you adjust render settings using D3D script, hit Apply, exit script, save pz3.
Then open pz3 using a text editor, do a search for renderDefaults and compare the values with your settings.
If they are identical to the settings you made using the script, the scene should render properly directly in Poser and using Queue manager.

Just remembered one obvious question, that wasn't asked before...

You are sending the file to a network machine...
Are your local versions of Poser and Queue manager identical to those on the network machine?

Yes, the queue manager is identic, Poser is as well installed on the network machine (but this is not required) both programs are up to date. And so far I did the same you did: Making my settings, hitting apply, saving the scene and sending it for the queue.

The network computer even has more power (processor, ram, video card) then mine has, so that should not be the reason for washed out renders and bad shadows.

I will look and see if the settings are identical from a saved scene when I create my next one tonight.

Quote - Anyway: The update on the script did not solve the problem of the queue manager not working as it should but giving different results as rendering directly in Poser.

The Queue Manager is working exactly as it should. It renders using settings given to it from Poser. D3D's script doesn't use Poser settings, it directly accesses Firefly (Also not written by Smith Micro) and feeds it settings that Firefly can use that Poser itself isn't currently capable of using. This is why Python Scripts are called Plugins that ADD functionality to Poser. The settings used by D3D's scripts are also not written to your PZ3 files because they are settings that Poser does not recognise natively.

Quote - Queue Manager is working exactly as it should. It renders using settings given to it from Poser. D3D's script doesn't use Poser settings, it directly accesses Firefly (Also not written by Smith Micro) and feeds it settings that Firefly can use that Poser itself isn't currently capable of using. This is why Python Scripts are called Plugins that ADD functionality to Poser. The settings used by D3D's scripts are also not written to your PZ3 files because they are settings that Poser does not recognise natively.

Actually, D3D settings are written to the pz3 file.

Following is from a pz3 including values changed by D3D's script...

renderDefaults
 {
 Kd 1.000000
 Ks 0.700000
 Ns 50.000000
 antialiasing 0
 textureStrength 1.000000
 bumpStrength 1.000000
 useTexture 1
 useBump 1
 castShadows 1
 renderOver bgShader
 newWinWidth 490
 newWinHeight 500
 newWinDPI 72
 autoScaleToView 2
 resScale 0
 reuseShadowMaps 0
 useRenderer p5
 settings
  {
  auto 1
  autoValue 3
  shadowRenderShadingRate 16
  maxRayDepth 2
  filterSize 2
  filterType 2
  pixelSamples 3
  bucketSize 32
  motionSamples 1
  allowRayTracing 1
  minShadingRate 1.000000
  maxTextureRes 1024
  hairShadingRate 8.000000
  doShadows 1
  smoothPolys 1
  backfaceCull 0
  allowDisplacement 1
  drawToonOutline 0
  toonOutlineStyle 3
  shadowOnlyRender 0
  giOnlyRender 0
  useP5renderer 1
  motionBlur 0
  useDOF 0
  useSumAreaTables 0
  minDisplacementBounds 0.000000
  useTextureCache 1
  zipTextureCache 0
  rayAccelerator 0
  occlusionCulling 1
  maxError 0.500000
  maxICSampleSize 10.000000
 ** giIntensity 6.550000**
**  giNumSamples 200**
**  giBounces 7**
  giMaxError 0.400000
  useGI 1
  hdriOutput 0
  gamma 2.200000
  useGamma 1
  toneMapper 0
  toneGain 1.000000
  toneExposure 1.600000
  passNormal 0
  passToonID 0
  passZDepth 0
  passPoint 0
  passTextureCoordinates 0
  passCustom1 0
  passCustom2 0
  passCustom3 0
  }

The values I've changed to bold have been changed by D3D's script.
Now the question remaining is: does Poser / Firefly read those values from the pz3.

Just saw this post by IsaoShi...
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2774454

Basically, it looks like a similar problem... different results when rendered using Queue Manager...
So the difference may not be related to the D3D script at all.

And, as shown in the comparison far above: Even when I use the standard render settings dialogue I get differences, even errors. Not always, but sometimes.

Meanwhile I checked the pz3's and I am (almost - it's a whole lot of code...) that the settings created with the Firefly script are saved with everything else.

I would expect the settings to be saved, as it sets the Poser settings; you can simply apply the Script's settings to Poser and render later by clicking Apply rather than Render.

Good to know about the update...

The problem is, at the moment, that the errors I get are so non-linear: Sometimes there are artifacts, sometimes the texture is blurry and the newest glitch is that IDL is not recognized and so there's no shadow (I used an additional light without shadow). So strange... my gallery is full of renders made with the queue renderer but now where I use IDL and the D3Dscript it doesn't work anymore.

Just a thought; did you install the updated Queue Manager from SR1?

Yes, I did, on both machines. :unsure:

What's the version number of the updated Queue Manager?  Mine is 2.0.0.11916

Quote - > Quote - Wow, that is really weird that wasn't drawn attention to. I don't even think I was aware of that update.

It was announced here when the update came out! I think it was even a sticky for a short time.

 

There were also some fixes listed for the script:

Quote - Line 819:
self.edit[10].SetValue(m[5])
should be:
self.edit[11].SetValue(m[5])

And

Line 901:
elif s == 24:
should be:
elif s == 23:

However The line numbers appear to be wrong. I found the first line to be changed at line 835 instead of 819 and the second line was 917 instead of 901.

Hello,

just downloaded the script. The lines have moved further. On my (NoteTab's)  counting, it's lines 872 and 966.

Best regards,

   Michael

Mine is 2.0.0.11916 too.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Wow, that is really weird that wasn't drawn attention to. I don't even think I was aware of that update.

It was announced here when the update came out! I think it was even a sticky for a short time.

 

There were also some fixes listed for the script:

Quote - Line 819:
self.edit[10].SetValue(m[5])
should be:
self.edit[11].SetValue(m[5])

And

Line 901:
elif s == 24:
should be:
elif s == 23:

However The line numbers appear to be wrong. I found the first line to be changed at line 835 instead of 819 and the second line was 917 instead of 901.

Hello,

just downloaded the script. The lines have moved further. On my (NoteTab's)  counting, it's lines 872 and 966.

 

Best regards,

   Michael

 

I would assume that since the script has been available for so long at some point D3D made these corrections and updated the download?  Or do we still have to edit it?