Hasn't anyone done an independent review of the new Posers? It's been 3 weeks since release, and I assume the industry press has had their hands on review copies for longer than that. I did a Google search for "Poser Pro 2012 review" and just got links to Smith Micro and other sites that printed the press release upon launch. No reviews.

If anyone knows of any good reviews of the new Posers, please link here!

http://www.penultimateharn.com/blog/?p=72

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I have a detail review that will be out this weekend.

Quote - http://www.penultimateharn.com/blog/?p=72

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I'm still looking at the 2 images posted to really determine the difference.... my eyes must be getting really old. It's not really a convincing (mini) review, based on the findings I wouldn't be rushing out to get the new Poser version at all. While the review mentions the wow factor of this new version, after looking at the images the wow factor wears off quickly and left me wondering if I'm really missing something. I'm sure I am.

 I'm still wondering why there aren't any art-industry related reviews as well. with previous versions we're even seen magazines jump in an review right after release..... now there's nothing.

I'm still looking at the 2 images posted to really determine the difference.... my eyes must be getting really old. It's not really a convincing (mini) review, based on the findings I wouldn't be rushing out to get the new Poser version at all."

I agree completely!!
There is only a very light & negligible difference at the very top edge of the ear.
But the NON SSS render is hardly "lifeless" by comparison,as the reviewer claims.
Frankly it is  as if SSS and to a certain degree Weight mapping in poser  is having some sort of
Placebo effect on some people.

Just knowing that it is "there" has people convinced that the render is automatically "better"

" I'm still wondering why there aren't any art-industry related reviews as well. with previous versions we're even seen magazines jump in an review right after release..... now there's nothing."

Well the release is still fairly new and 3D world says they have a full review up coming.

But to be brutally honest all of these features are only "new" to long time exclusive poser users and there is NOTHING innovative & Exciting about them from the perspective of someone familiar other Character programs.

As a comparison: if there were a 3D modeling program that was around since the late 1990's
that recently got N-gon support that Might be big news to long time users who have wanted it for years but to reviewers outside of their communities

....Ho hum.

Cheers

I, too, found the two images very close, but I admit I do not have the eye of a connoisseur. I also didn't find the "review" (just a very brief blog comment about SSS) extremely helpful. But that's all there is right now! Hopefully the 3D media is taking a long, comprehensive look at it.

Specifically I want to know if the new versions make it worthwhile to keep SSS, IDL, hardware shading, hardware shadows in preview, etc, turned on. If the results are worth the increased overhead and rendering time.

For example, I found the shadows in preview to bog down Poser's responsiveness once you get beyond a very simple scene, and that hardware shading can produce some odd-looking results in preview even while it lets you see some node-based things previously only visible upon rendering. I want to read how a real pro optimizes such  things, or do they just turn them off in the interest of facility. 

Also I'd like to see a list of fixes and tweaks that were made in the service releases for P8/ PP2010 but were gone again in the initial release of P9 / PP2012. It's onerous to search through numerous threads here and at RDNA (some of them with hundreds of replies) to find such info. Onerous for Smith Micro, too. They may not plow through all those threads, but I bet they read reviews of their product.

"Specifically I want to know if the new versions make it worthwhile to keep SSS, IDL, hardware shading, hardware shadows in preview, etc, turned on. If the results are worth the increased overhead and rendering time."

Honestly for such detailed answers you may be better off asking direct questions over at the RDNA forum

I doubt any third party reviewer will go that deep into the program.

Cheers

"I doubt any third party reviewer will go that deep into the program."

ha ha, this is the biggest improvement in Poser ever:

Real-time OpenGL Scene Preview

See the light (literaly) before renderirng!

Subsurface Scattering

Beautiful translucent material!

Constraint Channels and Constraint Objects

"Parenting" on and off during animation!

Weight Map Rigging and Vertex Weight Map Auto Transfer

Think of it. No more grouping and frustration. (unless you want to support earlier Poser versions that is..) The Weight Map Rigging system function not only with the new figures but also with all the old including V4/m4 (No more fiddeling with AutoGroup Editor, OBJ2CR205, Quickconforn etc etc). High-end tools like Maya is leaved behind in the dust. Only this feature is worth more than all the other together and makes it incredible easy to rig. Expect a flood of new clothing from the content providers

Rendering Performance Improvements´

Expanded Context Menus

Full Scene Category in Library

Multi-select Drag and Drop

Morphing Tool Tablet Support

Light Emitting Objects

Frame Selected Object

Orbit Selected Object Mode

Full 64-bit Mac/Win

Faster Dynamic Hair Pre-render

Texture Caching

Python 2.7 Support

Improved COLLADA

Mac OS X 10.7 Lion Support

High Dynamic Range Image (HDRI) Export

Gamma Correction/Linear Rendering

You must be kidding. For the first time Poser is up on the line with the high-end tools. I challenge you to make a hairrender better with Cinema 4D/vray or any other program or render software.

It is a paradigm shift and a new era has begun.

Quote - You must be kidding. For the first time Poser is up on the line with the high-end tools. I challenge you to make a hairrender better with Cinema 4D/vray or any other program or render software.

It is a paradigm shift and a new era has begun.

Not even close

Quote - "I doubt any third party reviewer will go that deep into the program."

ha ha, this is the biggest improvement in Poser ever:

Real-time OpenGL Scene Preview

See the light (literaly) before renderirng!

Subsurface Scattering

Beautiful translucent material!

Constraint Channels and Constraint Objects

"Parenting" on and off during animation!

Weight Map Rigging and Vertex Weight Map Auto Transfer

Think of it. No more grouping and frustration. (unless you want to support earlier Poser versions that is..) The Weight Map Rigging system function not only with the new figures but also with all the old including V4/m4 (No more fiddeling with AutoGroup Editor, OBJ2CR205, Quickconforn etc etc). High-end tools like Maya is leaved behind in the dust. Only this feature is worth more than all the other together and makes it incredible easy to rig. Expect a flood of new clothing from the content providers

Rendering Performance Improvements´

Expanded Context Menus

Full Scene Category in Library

Multi-select Drag and Drop

Morphing Tool Tablet Support

Light Emitting Objects

Frame Selected Object

Orbit Selected Object Mode

Full 64-bit Mac/Win

Faster Dynamic Hair Pre-render

Texture Caching

Python 2.7 Support

Improved COLLADA

Mac OS X 10.7 Lion Support

High Dynamic Range Image (HDRI) Export

Gamma Correction/Linear Rendering

You must be kidding. For the first time Poser is up on the line with the high-end tools. I challenge you to make a hairrender better with Cinema 4D/vray or any other program or render software.

It is a paradigm shift and a new era has begun.

But how much to the high end programs cost? Most people couldn't even afford to look at them. At least the low end people have improvements.

I wouldn't go so far as to call that poster a troll, but I'm looking for a bit more than a hallelujah and SM's list of improvements. There are very nice hallelujah threads already. This one is intended for links to professional reviews, to help people who are still deciding whether to buy -- or are seeking unbiased views from someone other than a paying customer who really wants to feel it is wonderful. Significant excerpts from such reviews, when they are written, would be welcome, too.

3D world would probably be your best bet.  I believe they will have a review in a month or so

From 3Dworldmag .com:
"You wait months for a new advanced edition to your favourite figure-design software, then four come along at once.
Hard on the heels of the release of DAZ Studio 4 Advanced and Pro, Smith Micro is shipping Poser 9 and Poser Pro 2012.
New features in both editions include support for vertex weight maps, animation constraints (pictured above), subsurface scattering and an updated OpenGL display.
In addition Poser Pro 2012 adds a set of weight map creation tools, which one testimonial on the product page describes as “better than 3ds Max”.
(Autodesk fans, direct your feedback to Smith Micro, not us.)
Poser 9 is currently available at a release discount of $199.99, while Poser Pro 2012 costs $399.99. Look out for reviews in upcoming issues of 3D World."

I guess you can keep an eye out for their full review in an upcoming issue.

Cheers

I am not trying to make an review only to combat pessimism. But I can not understand why that fact that it is now is incredible easy to make cloth, that that is not appreciated. that that is not enough. IMO that single thing it worth the entire cost: But what do I know, I am just a stupid bloke.

But at least now I can start to make cloth the big time way. I always wanted to, but the old technique was not good enough. Now with Marvelous Designer and Poser 2012 in place all is set to go. I'll don't talk but do. And the rest of you can do what you want -no concern of mine.

Quote - I'm still looking at the 2 images posted to really determine the difference.... my eyes must be getting really old. It's not really a convincing (mini) review, based on the findings I wouldn't be rushing out to get the new Poser version at all."

I agree completely!!
There is only a very light & negligible difference at the very top edge of the ear.
But the NON SSS render is hardly "lifeless" by comparison,as the reviewer claims.
Frankly it is  as if SSS and to a certain degree Weight mapping in poser  is having some sort of
Placebo effect on some people.

Just knowing that it is "there" has people convinced that the render is automatically "better"

I haven't played with the weight mapping so I cannot comment on that but, depending on the subject matter Sub Surface Scattering can have a major effect on the render.  I do agree the short review does not do this justice which surprises me, particularly as it states that the BB set up was used.

Both on close up and full body nudes the use of SSS does move the render much closer to reality, if this is your aim.  However, with close ups it is also possible to create some great looking eyes and for the first time in Poser I have V4 smiling as the teeth now look much more natural.

I am fairly sure that this is not just a placebo effect as I was not completely happy with my first attempts with SSS but with using the shaders that BB developed, and others on the forums I have managed to get results I am really happy with but it has taken a couple of weeks of tweaking to get there.  

I really do think Poser 2012 is great but I would have been happy with my purchase if SSS had been the only improvement but that could just be is suits the renders I am looking to create.