I just noticed that when I add a texture to the ground plane in P9 (SR3) that the texture is no longer visible in the preview, it looks black. But, if I put my mouse cursor over the window the texture shows. It never did that before SR3, is anyone else having this problem? It renders fine, but I like to see the textures :)  Also what are the better settings for rendering with this update, as my renders are taking a lot longer now thatn before the update. I have tried rendering with IC off and with it on but the renders are taking a lot longer. Thanks for any advice.

What is meant by "a lot" longer?

A couple other people have brought this up and been similarly vague.

I've been running SR3 (beta) for weeks and when I switched I did not notice a significant change in render speed. Maybe there was some, but not enough for me to say it takes "a lot" longer.

As for you display weirdness - check your display driver.

I just rendered my stock thumbnail scene in both SR2 and SR3.

SR2 = 32 seconds

SR3 = 33 seconds

Not "a lot" slower.

It seems slow when rendering with SS and IL with IC off, but it's hard to prove since SR2 is gone now. By "slow", I mean what took seconds before is now taking about two minutes. Of course, I could be wrong. Is there an easy way to roll back to SR2 to test things? I don't want to do a complete uninstall.

You don't uninstall. You install the original Poser, then the SR you want. Leave your content and settings as they are. Do the minimal install - just the software. During beta we did this every couple days. It's no big deal.

Now I have both, so I can switch.

Quote - It seems slow when rendering with SS and IL with IC off, but it's hard to prove since SR2 is gone now.

With IC off? Be more specific. Do you mean with IC set to 100 in the D3D render settings dialog? Because that is how IC is off before SR3. And that is much faster.

We keep running into this massive communication failure.

IC off is not IC = 0. That is IC as on as it can get. IC means "increase my speed as long as you stay as correct as the IC value."

When IC = 0, that means zero correctness is required and it goes the fastest.

When IC = 100, that means 100% correctness is required and IC turns off. In that case you do not see the IDL precalc because IC is off.

I did an SSS+IDL test - used a waxy material.

SR2 = 37.5 seconds

SR3 = 40 seconds

By off, I mean the IC check box is unchecked. I'm in the Firefly render settings. I don't know what "D3D" stands for. The slider behind the check box was set to 32.

I'll test SR2 tommorow to determine if there is actually a difference in render times on my system.

The render flies when the IC check box is checked and the slider is set to 100. If the slider is what turns off IC, why include a check box? This is confusing.

There is a checkbox now - there was not before.

You said it runs slower now than it did before, with IC off. I assumed you meant comparing IC off before and after SR3.

I now think you're comparing IC on with IC off, and you think that is the fault of SR3. When you turn off IC, you are by definition going to be slower. It does not use the cache then. The cache is for speed. Turning it off means you're asking it to go slower, and possibly do a better image.

It's not SR3 that is slower. It is rendering without the cache that is slower than rendering with the cache.

If you had turned off the cache in SR2, it was even MORE slow.

I thought you (and others) were comparing apples to apples. I thought you were saying that SR3 - with all settings the same - is slower than SR2 by a lot.

Now I learn you're changing the settings, by turning off IC. That's apples and oranges.

In SR2 it was rather difficult to turn off IC. You had to do by setting the value to 100, and you could only do that if you used the non-standard render settings dialog.

The D3D dialog is a Python script found in

Scripts/Partners/Dimension 3D/Render Firefly

That has been there since Poser 8 and gives access to more render settings than the standard dialog does.

Since you didn't know about it, then we can assume you never used it.

If you never used it, then you were always rendering with IC on in the past.

Therefore, it makes no sense for you to say that it is slower to render with IC off after getting SR3. You had no way to turn it off before SR3. Turn it back on and then compare your speeds to SR2.

You said it runs slower now than it did before, with IC off. I assumed you meant comparing IC off before and after SR3.

• This was correct.

I now think you're comparing IC on with IC off, and you think that is the fault of SR3.

This is possibly correct, though not intentional. I will check in SR2 tomorrow.

Is IC off or on in SR3 when the box is checked and it is set to 100?

Quote - The render flies when the IC check box is checked and the slider is set to 100. If the slider is what turns off IC, why include a check box? This is confusing.

The slider in Poser's render settings does not turn off irradiance caching for indirect light. There is some confusion because the slider in D3D's render settings, a third party script, does turn it off at 100.

Quote - You said it runs slower now than it did before, with IC off. I assumed you meant comparing IC off before and after SR3.

• This was correct.

No it wasn't. You have never in your life rendered with IDL on and IC off before now.

The D3D dialog is a Python script found in

Scripts/Partners/Dimension 3D/Render Firefly
That has been there since Poser 8 and gives access to more render settings than the standard dialog does.

Since you didn't know about it, then we can assume you never used it.
If you never used it, then you were always rendering with IC on in the past.

That makes sense. There's no point in my testing. Thanks for taking the time to save me the time.

Stewer - it's becoming more and more clear to me that Poser should not say anything technical, ever.

The switches should not say what they are. They should say what they do.

This new switch should be a radio button -

[ ] Fast global illumination with errors

[ ] Really slow, but accurate global illumination

This was correct.

"

No it wasn't. You have never in your life rendered with IDL on and IC off before now.

Actually, it was what I meant, even though I was mistaken. lol. 

My real mistake was chiming in without checking things out first. I have only recently begun rendering in Poser in a major way. In the past I mainly used Poser to set things up for export to Vue. I have rendered with settings at the highest levels in SR2 and it was quicker than SR3 with IC off. It was stupid to assume that I had turned off IC in SR2, but you know that already and further elaborating why a stupidity happened won't make it any brighter.

I am doing the same scene with IC unchecked, and no ss on and I am already at 15 minutes at it still isn't finished rendering

32 minutes and still rendering!

The render with IC unchecked and ss off is still rendering and it over an hour and 10 minutes and still has a ways to go. I am going to stop that render, and tomorrow reinstall poser with sr2 and see what happens with the same scene.

apparently unticking the IC box will increase your rendertime dramatically , as it will render at a very high quality . tick the IC box and try it at 50 %

"The switches should not say what they are. They should say what they do.
This new switch should be a radio button -
[ ] Fast global illumination with errors
[ ] Really slow, but accurate global illumination"

LOL - I hope you're being serious. This is pretty much what I was getting at in the material room thread. Have a preference for technical or simple descriptions and display the alternate in a tooltip.

Arch.....
YOU did not HAVE that checkbox in SR2 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

READ what BB says, what I said, what Stewer says.

YOU DID not HAVE that checkbox in SR2 !!!!!!!!!!!

And setting IC at ZERO is NOT the same as unchecking the checkbox.

UNCHECKING the checkbpx starts a completely different render procedure.........

I told that before.
BB told that before.
Stewer told that before.

With or without the checkbox, THAT IS NEW in SR3, a completely different render procedure is used.

For normal renders the checkbox should stay ON !!!!!!!! => And U can continue to play with the IC slider as before.

For TOP of THE BILL quality , you can remove the check => At the cost of quite longer render times.

Well, I just learned a whole bunch.

Quote - The switches should not say what they are. They should say what they do. This new switch should be a radio button -

[ ] Fast global illumination with errors

[ ] Really slow, but accurate global illumination

 

Actually, I think thats a brilliant observation. The majority of the pubilc isn't tech savvy, and the majority of uses don't even participate in forum discussions. Making things clearer as to what they actually do does make more sense to me.

Maybe thats a good suggestion for the next patch?

Quote - The render with IC unchecked and ss off is still rendering and it over an hour and 10 minutes and still has a ways to go. I am going to stop that render, and tomorrow reinstall poser with sr2 and see what happens with the same scene.

I totally feel like you have paid ZERO attention to what has been said in this thread.

and 'light emitter' desciption.

it ultra helps when hovering mouse over sliders gives tool tips.
like which setting helps geometry jaggies

Quote - IDL no IC 7 minutes

it looks more like vray results.
so, this true global illumination?

does this new option cure some of the shmootz?
hoping so

i'm updating from vanilla pp12 to sr3.
i'm guessing it will write over my poser.xrc and i'll lose my custom menu schortcuts

BB I was paying attention,  I have always rendered with IC on, I have never tried to render with D3D render settings so I have never set the IC to 100 nor to 0. My statement that my renders are slower are based on my render settings I posted on page 1 of this thread. With sr3 and a basic scene, 17 minutes seems like a long time for a render with one figure. 

The next statement was me trying to see what happened when I unchecked the IC and not use ss, I knew that you said that would take a lot longer to render, I just wanted to see how long. I was going to reinstall poser and put the sr2.1 back and render the scene again to compare, but now my, poser is screwed up and I had to uninstall and do a complete reinstall of everything. So I just put the sr3 back, and will work with it. Time isn't a problem, it just was me being curious if the renders were taking longer. 

On another note, the texture problem is there, which disappeared when I reinstalled sr2, but as soon as I reinstalled sr3 the ground texture disappears and only shows when I put my cursor over it. So I don't think it is a display problem it is an sr3 problem. 

Have you tried scaling the thing up (100 times or more). Do these stripes still appear?

Have you tried scaling the thing up (100 times or more). Do these stripes still appear?

• I just tried that. The stripes fade as the building gets larger. The downside is trying to maneuver in Poser with something that large. (100,000 scale)

Quote - Have you tried scaling the thing up (100 times or more). Do these stripes still appear?

*I just tried that. The stripes fade as the building gets larger. The downside is trying to maneuver in Poser with something that large. (100,000 scale)

It has something to do with absolute values and relative values. Poser scale is pretty small and sometimes self shadowing (shadow bias) comes in the way when distances are too small. Shadow bias is an absolute value (measurement) like displacement and bump map values. By increasing the scale those absolute values do not interfere anymore with the relative values of the scaling (distances in the object).

Sometime you have this problem with eyelashess in a figure where the distances are so small that the shadow bias needs to be small (to see the shadow), but that interferes with the selfshadowing of the model causing artifacts. By scaling the entire model up you bypass that problem

I forgot - one trick for the navigation is simple.

Set up the entire scene as normal. When you are finished, create a grouping object. Then parent everything to the grouping. Then scale the grouping object up.
I think you can even parent lights and cameras if I remember correctly.

If you want to edit, just scaling it down again to 100% and continue as normal

I forgot - one trick for the navigation is simple.

Set up the entire scene as normal. When you are finished, create a grouping object. Then parent everything to the grouping. Then scale the grouping object up.
I think you can even parent lights and cameras if I remember correctly.

If the cameras and lights scale too, that would be workable. It would be great if the renderer could do a "virtual rescaling" when needed to get around issues like this.

Quote - I forgot - one trick for the navigation is simple.

Set up the entire scene as normal. When you are finished, create a grouping object. Then parent everything to the grouping. Then scale the grouping object up.
I think you can even parent lights and cameras if I remember correctly.

If the cameras and lights scale too, that would be workable. It would be great if the renderer could do a "virtual rescaling" when needed to get around issues like this.

Very few people have reported or even noticed this problem. So it is not considered a high priority.

I just tried it again and cameras and lights can be parented too and scale with the grouping.  Be aware to add everything (that includes things like figure hair and clothing)

There is one disadvantage: As I said, bump and displacement values are absolute, so they don't scale. You have to change those manually

I think a python script to parent all to a grouping and adapt the bump and displacement values would be a nice thing

 Edit: By the way - this is not something I discovered, but was in a thread at RDNA 6 or 7 years ago

Poser 7 or 8 (can't remember which) introduced internal scaling-during-render and since then I have found scaling a scene solves pretty much none of the problems we have.

The lines on the stairs - isn't that just moire? (I can't write an e with accent - don't know how.)

pokeydots,

You said " I used ezskin on him". Did you happen to choose the real reflection option for the skin?

Reflections had to be corrected due to complaints about reflections of reflections losing the blur. SR3 introduces this as a fix, and this is extra work it was not doing before.

EZSkin sets up blurred reflections. You have several bounces. Which means that Poser SR3 will be dealing with something SR2 did not do correctly.

Perhaps this is why you get a slowdown, assuming all settings really are the same?

What happens if you set the reflection bounces to 1?

There is one disadvantage: As I said, bump and displacement values are absolute, so they don't scale. You have to change those manually.

Vue has a useful material option. You can set the texture to World or Object. If it's set to Object, things like displacement maps scale with the object. *

Yeah. Looks like moiré to me too.

e with acute accent
   é  ALT + 130    É  ALT + 144

e with grave accent
   è  ALT + 138    È  ALT + 0200

 Use number pad, not keyboard.

Thanks moriador.

*It's moire than I can tolerate. Is there a render setting in Poser that might reduce this?

I hope people are clicking on the images for the clear examples. The thumbnails have all kinds of moiré.

Quote - The lines on the stairs - isn't that just moire?

*It's moire than I can tolerate. Is there a render setting in Poser that might reduce this?

I hope people are clicking on the images for the clear examples. The thumbnails have all kinds of moiré.

It looks like simpe aliasing to me. Try a higher number of pixel samples, and either gauss/2 or sinc/4 for post filter and filter size.

It looks like simpe aliasing to me. Try a higher number of pixel samples, and either gauss/2 or sinc/4 for post filter and filter size.

*Thanks stewer. That completely solved the issue.