Hi all, this is my first post and I am very new to this group so I am sorry if some of my questions relate to topics that are solved, have been discussed at length etc. I am a psychologist at a Canadian university working on human emotional expressions. Some European colleagues and I want to try to create sets of facial expressions using Poser to study the expression of emotions in a way that we cannot with human models (they simply do not have the control). Of course there has been quite a bit of research of facial expressions and thus we know already quite a bit. For example that many expressions are asymmetrical - also in the lower face. This of course cannot be done with Poser out of the box - is there any way to have independent controls for the left and right smile, frown, etc? (I know that the eyes and brows can be moved indepedently). Moreover, there are movements that humans use, but that Poser does not allow. For examples in disgust or contempt we raise the uper lip in a very characteristic way, but this cannot be done with the figures in Poser that I am familiar with (I am still using Poser3 but have ordered Poser4). Can anyone tell me how complicated it is to implement such a movement or whether it has already been done? Of course the type of research we do should lead to a larger set of emotional facial expressions for Poser that could be useful for anyone using Poser to create facial poses/animations. At this point any pointer towards methods that are already in Poser, external tools, books, companies, etc. are welcome. Nice site by the way! Arvid

There are vast morphs available for the poser 3 faces, the female mostly, including left/right mouth settings. If you aquire poser 4, you can create new morph targets of your own, in the program itself. Otherwise you will have to purchase and familiarize yourself with a 3D modeling program, which you can use to modify the head geometry of the figure, and apply as a morph target. You may want to download the "advanced techniques manual" from metacreations.com, and decide if you are ready for that kind of work or not. Beware of the limitations of the Poser faces. The geometry does not support the dynamic behavior of facial muscles, such as providing more complex meshwork for areas which need more flexability. If you intend to demonstate the full range of subtlety in the human face, you are in for a lot of work.

Thanks Anson, but just to be sure I understand - "morph targets" that you are referring to ways of changing the head geometry, such as widening the face on one side, but it does not imply differences in the movement, such as pulling up one corner of the mouth while the other remains neutral (with symmetrical "skeletal" head geometry remaining intact) ?? Best, Arvid

Arvid, All Facial Expressions in 3D Are created using Morph Targets, regardless of the type of Model it is (Mesh or Spline). Morph Targetting allows, of course, for changes in the model's appearance, but in Poser, we use this in concert with the Joints for the purpose of animating the figures and making them look "Alive". Think of it as deforming the Skin of an actual figure... you have no join there to control it, simply muscle action under the skin's surface. Since Poser does not actually Have Muscle Action under the surface, we must simulate this by creating a Mesh Deformer. In the next five years, you'll see this change, as models do exist on the very very high end with Accurate Bone and Muscle Structures. This would be a very significant investment on the Part of any university, in the hundreds of thousands of dollars as it stands now. Only the most skilled proffessional could creat such a model. I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to do, however, you're probably best served by continuing to put the word out on your project. The Poser Forum team will be at your disposal should you need any assistance. Ian Grey PFO Director

heya; if the mesh isnt detailed enough, you could, theoretically, open the obj file in your modeller, and subdivide it until it is as dense as you want. of course, after you do that, none of the other morphs for the standard figures will work with it. you should go to traveler's morphworld site and see what he's done already. (plus check the morphs on other sites like the fun stuff here, props guild, poserworld, etc.) i would caution against pinning too many hopes on the p4 magnets to do much with subtle muscle effects. i dunno, i confess i'm not so hot with magnets, so i think they're over-rated. have you done stuff like that with them, newc? i'd like to see it. and a tutorial on it ;)

heya; low flight.... it sounds like that thing they did where they mapped out the proportions of 'the perfect face.' which was some kinda composite of all the most 'beautiful' people. male and female, it turned out to be the same 'template.' (i wonder if that's available to view on the web....) actually, if they used 2d faces, they may have simply used a 2d morph program. you know, that turns ladies into tigers and whatnot. (yeah, kai's power goo! ;D )

The man to see is a man known as Travaler, he is the god of morph targets, and I think if you can send him imiges or examples of what you are looking for he would be more than happy to help. I'm not sure if he charges for larger projects like facial expresion sets, but... he has helped me out many times in the past. -Gabe-

By the way, travaler is a member of this forum, so if you look through the members section you will find his sight. -Gabe-

Arvid, It is possible to do the kind of morphs that you are talking about. It is a matter of making 2 morphs, one for each side. If yo get in there and hide the teeth and inner mouth structure before you start modeling, you can move just the lips or facial skin as you say. Email me at nimbus@telenet.net if you want to. It sounds like an interesting project. -Traveler http://www.darksouls.com/traveler/index.html

Here he is now

Thanks to all for their replies here or via email. I truly appreciate your help. If you have any further ideas regarding people, tutorials, internet-based resources, books, etc. that might be relevant please let me know. For our project the next step is to try to find out exactly which known emotional facial expressions can be created to compile a "wish list" of not-implemented movements and then see how to continue from there. I will try in parallel to get a better feel for morph targets and the limitations of Poser in general. Of course I will let you know of our progress as we go along. Best, Arvid