I've been Posing for a little over a month now. I have no prior experience with either Poser or DAZ, or anything similar, Gimp is about the extent of my graphics knowledge. I use a Mac for everything, I don't have a Windows system, and I'm using Poser 10, and the figure is Dawn.

It seems like there is so much potential locked up in this software but I just can't access it. I am currently trying to do an ebook cover (for one of my own) and I want to have a shot of my heroine on the cover, from just below her breasts. So obviously part of her top will show. I can get the bare naked Dawn just how I want her, but here is where I run into a problem. When I put clothes on her in the default pose she looks fine, and when I pose her the clothes move with her, but sometimes not enough, and sometimes too much. I can't get her clothes to fit snuggly on her body, they're either floating an inch above her skin, or are embedded an inch or so below it. I have played around with everything I can think of, but nothing seems to work, or at least not how I think it should. I've tried the controls for pulling, pushing, morphing, etc but nothing seems to do what I want. And to make it worse it seems like I can't use the morph tool on her clothes, Poser wants to do the underlying Dawn instead.

Can anyone offer any advice? What can I use to manipulate her clothes? How do I select them without having Poser select some underlying anatomy instead? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks...
Knickers

Poser can be a bit frustrating with this. Can you post pictures of what you are getting? BTW, to select clothing the easiest way I have found is to use the tab at the top left of the preview window and select the item from there, OR use the heirarchy window (if the heierarchy window isn't open, you can activate it using the window tab in the main toolbar. Select the item from that list and it should become the active character. Once selected, hold the shift key when using the morph tool to lock the tool to the selected character (or start the morph on a visible part of the clothing). Believe it or not, the morph tool used to be a LOT worse than you are experiencing.

Another option is to cheat... you have a very specific view in mind for the final render, which requires a very small part of the clothing to be in view. So focus on that. A cheat might be to pose the naked Dawn, save the pose to your Pose folder, import the top and PARENT it to Dawn's hip (not conform, don't drag and drop), then apply the pose yoy saved for Dawn. It should change the top to a matching pose, but all the parameter dials for scale etc will remain separate to Dawn's. You can even push the whole thing back along the X/Z axes to sit as snug as you like (it'll be sticking out the back, but that isn't in the shot, is it?).

Just some random thoughts. Again, post pics if you can. There are some real whizzes on here with Dawn in particular that I am sure will be able to help.

I have played around with Poser some more, as well as watching some of the tutorials, and I am actually starting to make some headway. The morph tool does work, and remarkedly well if I very carefully adjust the radius and strength, and then take my time. There are just so many controls to learn. The tip about the shift key is going to be worth its weight in gold.

This is as far as I've gotten, the best I've done so far:

I know it's not great, but it's so much better than a few days ago. The background was shot from a hotel window, I think a street level shot would be better, but it is getting there.

Thanks...

Knickers

What I was getting was the straps on her dress floating an inch or so above her shoulders while in the back they were under her skin. I know that last bit doesn't matter since it was out of the frame, but it would be nice knowing how to fix it.There were many other places where Dawn or the dress was poking through, but they too were out of the frame. I watched a tutorial by Fugazi1968 and it was what rang all the right bells, I think I have made a break-through. If I can just remember the shift key...

Knickers

Cool, I hope you enjoy playing with the program. It took me years of casual fiddling to get results I felt I had control over, and there are whole segments I still don't go near. I come on here occasionally to ask questions, and was only looking at your post because I was watching answers to a question I had asked!

Looks like you've got the model where you want it (and if you intend doing any image sequences, you definitely need to know how to make the clothes fit)... on to the joys of lighting!

For mine, I think the background picture is fine.

I believe the dress is a dynamic cloth prop I created for use in the Poser Cloth room. Are you using the Cloth room?

Quote - I believe the dress is a dynamic cloth prop I created for use in the Poser Cloth room. Are you using the Cloth room?

Yes, it is the Babydoll 2 from your Christmas package. I changed the color and since I was not doing a full-body shot it didn't matter that it was rather short :blushing:

I did perform a brief foray into the cloth room but at that point I was in a confused state and not sure what I was doing. I will try it again today. Overall I am very pleased with the clothing package that you put together. Do you have any others? I'd like to see the Babydoll turned into a real dress...

Anyway, thanks for your efforts
Knickers

OK cool.

The Cloth Room is your friend, trust me on this. Well worth learning how to use it.

http://www.philc.net/index.php

Left hand menu, click Tutorials > Cloth Room.

Then try a Google search on "Poser Cloth Room tutorial". When I do that the first dozen links all look good.

I've another Dawn outfit in my freestuff archive.
http://www.philc.net/freestuff_archive.php

May not be quite what you are after though.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Phil, I have downloaded a few of your other freebies. I noticed that your Ancient Olde Archive page is not working, you did say that it's hosted on a work computer so maybe the boss is looking over its shoulder...

The Cloth Room is on my agenda for today, I will check out your tutorial, and others if I feel it's needed.

Thanks for everything...
Knickers

I've been continuing my education this morning. I steup a new Dawn figure, gave her Jessi's hair, and PhilC's lovely little tight dress. The dress was setup for Alyson so I got some more practice with the morph tool, it really works. I'm very pleased with the result, which is here:

Very nice dress PhilC. Can the dress be saved once I have it fitted to the default Dawn pose?

Knickers

Wow, you must have been REALLY frustrated with this; from your first post I would never have guessed you were using dynamic cloth. It sounded like you were using conforming clothing... made my suggestions mostly wrong, and I never thought to ask...ooops. Also shows I don't use Dawn... from memory most of the clothing for her is dynamic.

Quote - Wow, you must have been REALLY frustrated with this; from your first post I would never have guessed you were using dynamic cloth. It sounded like you were using conforming clothing... made my suggestions mostly wrong, and I never thought to ask...ooops. Also shows I don't use Dawn... from memory most of the clothing for her is dynamic.

That's ok Piersyf, the Shift tip makes it all worth it. I don't want to seem stupid, but what's the difference between conforming clothing and dynamic clothing? I assume if clothing is distributed as being dynamic that's what it means, but what does it mean to someone who knows nothing? Does the morph tool only work withdynamic clothing? Is the anything comparable for conforming clothing, or is it not supposed to have this problem?

Every answered question yields a dozen more unanswered questions...

Knickers

When I get reincarnated I want to come back as that last image I posted...

Knickers

Dynamic clothing is a prop, a mesh that has no 'identity' of its own (so isn't in the 'character' folder). It gets its shape from draping over your figure.You can mostly fit dynamic clothing to any character.

Conforming clothing is a mesh designed to match the figure. It has the same 'identity' as the figure it is made for. As an example, if you were to load say a Victoria 4 figure and pose her, if you then load a conforming clothing item (drag and drop onto the figure) the clothing will automatically adopt the same pose as the parent figure (V4).

Further, in the bottom fields of the clothing item's property tab you can tick to follow morph targets and scale. If you then morph and/or alter V4's scale, the clothing will automatically follow. No cloth room required. Only requirement is that the clothing item must already have those morph options available to it. That can be fixed quite easily now, but possibly a bit past what this explanation is about...

Dynamic clothing usually gives much more realistic draping than conforming clothing does, but it takes time. For many poses conforming is just fine, easier and quicker. It's really a matter of need; which is better for the image you want to do.

Oh, and there are hybrid conforming/dynamic clothes, usually dresses with conforming top and dynamic skirt. Close fitting bodice, flowing skirt, easy fitting. Best of both worlds.

Huge amount to cover with this one... like everything else with 3D software.

Forgot to mention the morph tool... you can morph ANY mesh... put dents in a wall if you like. As to fitting dynamic clothing to Dawn, getting practice with the morph tool is very useful, but there is another way...

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/videopro/index.php?View=Y&video_id=445

Quote - Dynamic clothing is a prop, a mesh that has no 'identity' of its own (so isn't in the 'character' folder). It gets its shape from draping over your figure.You can mostly fit dynamic clothing to any character.

Conforming clothing is a mesh designed to match the figure. It has the same 'identity' as the figure it is made for. As an example, if you were to load say a Victoria 4 figure and pose her, if you then load a conforming clothing item (drag and drop onto the figure) the clothing will automaticallyadopt the same pose as the parent figure (V4).

So that's why some clothes appear in the people directory! Conforming  are in the people directory, and the rest (mostly) are in props.

Quote - Further, in the bottom fields of the clothing item's property tab you can tick to follow morph targets and scale. If you then morph and/or alter V4's scale, the clothing will automatically follow. No cloth room required. Only requirement is that the clothing item must already have those morph options available to it. That can be fixed quite easily now, but possibly a bit past what this explanation is about...

Dynamic clothing usually gives much more realistic draping than conforming clothing does, but it takes time. For many poses conforming is just fine, easier and quicker. It's really a matter of need; which is better for the image you want to do.

Just how does one do the draping? When I try and do it, it looks like Dawn slept in it...

Quote - Oh, and there are hybrid conforming/dynamic clothes, usually dresses with conforming top and dynamic skirt. Close fitting bodice, flowing skirt, easy fitting. Best of both worlds.

Now that sounds useful!

Quote - Huge amount to cover with this one... like everything else with 3D software.

Thanks piersyf!
Knickers

Quote - Forgot to mention the morph tool... you can morph ANY mesh... put dents in a wall if you like. As to fitting dynamic clothing to Dawn, getting practice with the morph tool is very useful, but there is another way...

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/videopro/index.php?View=Y&video_id=445

 

I found that video a few days ago, but watched it again. Fugazi1968 shows how to save the dress after altering it, that was one of my questions. But what is he talking abvout when he mentions the simulation and 30 frames? Is he making a video of her morphing?

Knickers

No, not a video. Dynamic cloth is a literal description; it reacts with its environment, and that can only happen if there is a time function. I don't do animations at all, but use the cloth room quite a bit.

As to how to do draping in the cloth room, I could tell you... but why reinvent the wheel? Much better video tutorial right here...

http://poser.smithmicro.com/tutorials/advanced/clothroom101.html

Also should mention that 'character' is aparently a legacy tag, and doesn't mean 'people'. You can have buildings, vehicles, plants, all sorts of things in the character folder. I'm not entirely sure of the criteria; clothes have 'bones' for rigging, but buildings don't, and cars don't have to... and they both refer to .obj geometry... maybe someone else can answer that one for you...

Quote - No, not a video. Dynamic cloth is a literal description; it reacts with its environment, and that can only happen if there is a time function. I don't do animations at all, but use the cloth room quite a bit.

As to how to do draping in the cloth room, I could tell you... but why reinvent the wheel? Much better video tutorial right here...

http://poser.smithmicro.com/tutorials/advanced/clothroom101.html

I just watched the video, and the cloth room looks really useful, I will try it out. Will it work with any piece of clothing? Even if it wasn't designed for the figure? And the way it handles the draping, that I have to try out.

Knickers

There are geometry limits, so no, it doesn't work on all clothing. All dynamic clothing, yes, but not all conforming. Look for threads on using conforming clothing in the cloth room... it isn't a short answer!

I tried a sample Dawn with the Alyson dynamic dress, and it worked fairly well (after almost a dozen attempts), here are a couple of pics:

The draping turned out fairly nice, and I could probably play with it and get it better, and then I got this:

As you can see it had this little weirdity at the thin straps. The cloth room didn't get them above her skin so I tried to do it with the morph tool. It looks like it's turned inside out. I think the problem was that it was too deep inside Dawns shoulder and I had to work it too much to get it out. Since it was so thin, the angle I was using the morph tool affected the surface it was trying to pull it toward, as well as pulling on it unevenly. The net result is that it turned inside out, and then it no longer works as intended.

Overall, I'm pleased with the way it works, and I think I can get around the problem with the straps.

Knickers