Hi Bryce Fans

I think we need to prove to people that Bryce is worth making still because I have to tell you I am worried it may not survive for a Start Bryce 7 is a fair age now we need a new Bryce version (preferably one that supports new operating Systems especially for the mac as most operating systems after Lion don't work). There is a hell of a lot of things this program does that others do not it is a brilliant scenary program but I think its fair to say most of us use it for more complicated things. To me it is the easiest program to learn and the most fun if Bryce stops getting made it would be a terrible waste. Maybe I am being melodramatic but I think at the moment we need to convince Daz that it is Still worth getting made.

Karl

This is discussed on and off in the DAZ Forum. Here are some examples:

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/43914/

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/31075/

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/42537/

Unfortunately we are totally in the hands of those who hold the reigns at DAZ. I am certian that they have received considerable feedback over the years but I guess the potential profits are just not compelling enough. They will make their decisions based on the advice of accountants, not on the desires of artists and dabblers... 

Yup. malenySteve hits the nail square on the head there. It's all about money...most software is though to be perfectly honest. What's needed is a score of new enthusiastic users buying the program...hell half of the users got it free or nearly so.

It was a miracle we got B7. I can't see a sudden wave of new users charging over the hill to save it.

Quote - It was a miracle we got B7. I can't see a sudden wave of new users charging over the hill to save it.

Kinda what I was implying...guess we just have dance with the partner we got eh.

Wouldn't it be nice if they did give one more shot to at least fix the obvious niggly minor bugs in the existing software such as importing images, without the big overhead of a complete re-write  on a modern futureproof development framework.  I have got Bryce 7 to work on Mac Mavericks, using VM Ware Fusion and emulated Snow Leopard Server, so there is a viable work around.  What I really like about Bryce is the user interface and the render engine, particularly water and reflections. And the older code runs very fast now on the latest processors, my render times are what I could only dream of back in 2005...

I think Bryce's stagnation is why I mainly use it as a modeler...I find the new Terragen which has .obj import functionality, to be the best possible replacement that's going to keep developing for Landscape stuff and a killer render engine. Plus it comes with a Free version that is quite functional, limited in some aspects but 1280x900 renders max is O K and the AA limit of 4 Detail at .6 seem more than adequate for nice detaild.

Thank you all for your answers

True all things you have put are correct  There is one thing they could do though maybe say I Could Donate some of my work so they get the money they need to ensure this program has a future.(I can't aways promise obj and 3ds files for complex designs unless they come in parts) But I would be willing to give as much of my work as I can to ensure the survival of Bryce.

Cheers

Karl

Ps Weapons are easily do able and you could get .obj files they could use for Daz Studio and other programs

I think the death bell has already tolled.  Why would a new user want Bryce?  With some google research, anyone first entering the CG world would recognize the rendering gap has closed and yes Terragen would be a cost effective front runner.  It would take more than the easy to learn interface to sway me if I were a first time buyer.  

If making a product free, or nearly so, didn't flood the world with Brycers, what else is there that could attract a "wave of new users".  If a savy buyer were to investigate they would find the newest releases were buggy and for every new feature added an older feature was lost to bugs and crashes.   Just search this forum for that information.  

I love my Bryce but I also understand it has died a painful death and ressurection spells don't seem to work.  Sorry if that is not your opinion but I have shed my last tear over this.

Quote - I think the death bell has already tolled.  Why would a new user want Bryce?

 

Why wouldn't they its easy to learn you limit is only your imagination and its a joy to work with and trust no other model programs in my opinion are worth bothering with because I personally think Bryce is perfect. I know what you mean though some people lose interest to quickly with it but its good that people like yourself have used it well and still try to keep Bryce alive. Don't give up though something will find a way "even if I have to learn Computer Programming and get Bryce off daz I will do whatever I can and I don't want to believe it will ever be over I have learnt to much to lose it now.

Regards

Karl

For me there are a few reasons I am still a Bryce user.  I have an enormous investment in Bryce content, some can be ported to other rendering software, most would be lost if I ceased to use Bryce. I no longer have the time to learn another app as I am now an occasional Bryce dabbler rather than a regular user. I paid for and have the Bryce 7 Pro software, and have concocted a way to continue to use the app even though it will not run on current Mac operating systems.

That said, if somebody told me another app was there that could use most of my Bryce content, that was reasonably easy to migrate to in terms of learning to use it, and would run bug free on current operating systems, and be affordable (say under $300) then I might be tempted...

I think it would be a big mistake to get rid of Bryce because other apps like Blender are so blooming difficult you need a degree in mathmatics just to use it Bryce is fairly easy and to be honest I don't like Daz Studio because all it is is naked models already made and it only does people(I know it does animals also.) Hexagon looks good but it seems very hard to use.

Karl

Bryce 8 Pro Studio is nearing completion but she's a totally different beast to the Bryce you currently use.  A massive amount has been rewritten in order to bring everything up to date and to make future updates even quicker.  Can't tell you too much, but I can tell you about certain aspects of it, how she behaves and how she looks now (gorgeous springs to mind).

Visually, the off-white coloured Bryce you know, has gone for good.  She's now running full-screen and has a dark leather texture that is deep burgundy-red coloured (like a fine wine).  The trackball and all the navigation controls around it have been replaced by a large brushed-aluminium disc with precision-cut grooves in it that acts as both a navigation and a trackball tool depending on where you touch it.  It's even nicer to use than the original, seriously.

So we have a deep-red/burgundy leather interface with brushed metal buttons, but what I haven't told you yet is that the metal is tinted gold, she looks really sexy and luxurious now (imagine what gold on burgundy looks like and you'll get the idea).

The Nano preview that occupied the top left of the screen has been removed completely.  The reason is that it's no longer required as Bryce now uses a GPU accelerated renderer directly in the viewport.  And yes, that means there's no longer a render button either because the render is automatic and almost instant (like using Octane but four times quicker thanks to open CL).  There's no need to worry about Video Ram either because she doesn't use the Video RAM of the card at all.

Sadly, due to some weird technical thing, she can still only access a limited amount of system RAM for your scenes, but as the limit is now 10TB (Ten Terrabyte), that ought to keep the Brycers happy for the next twenty years.

The large navigator and a brand new timeline are visible in every Room, it never changes.  Doesn't matter whether you're in the Main Room or the Material Room, the navigator and timeline are always there ready to animate absolutely every control there's a button for in Bryce (and more besides).

Genesis is supported, and this brings us to Bryce's new Animation Room where you are able to design walks, and do mix and match blending of any figure movement you can imagine.  My personal favourite is the new Animation Matrix feature that lets you instantly route one thing to another.  For example, you can load an audio file in WAV format and have the beat control any animation parameter you want.

I've been having a great time attaching the beat of a Trance track (the source) to the Y-Scaling of a Cube (the destination).  You adjust the sensitivity control and you have a cube that dances to the beat because the Y-Scale changes with the beat.  That's just an example of what you can do, but really the possibilities are only limited by your imagination.  You have 10 Source-Destination slots to fill with any sources or destinations you wish so you can automate up to ten in a Matrix at once, you can even set multiple sources to a single destination if you want.

Speaking of cubes, Bryce also has a much more capable Primitives system.  You can do what you always could do in Bryce modeling, but now, every primitive that has a streight edge (Cubes, Pyramids etc), all have a brand new "Rounding" option that allows you to select the edges and Bryce will round the edges for you, you can even adjust the amount of divisions in the rounding.  Other Primitive features include deformers.  You can now Bend, Shear, Taper and Twist primitives, and because they're Bryce Primitives, they always look smooth no matter how far you push the deformations.  There's also some interesting new "Snapping" options in the viewport for working with Primitives.

When you add together the rounding , deformers, and the snapping I'm sure you'll get the idea of how capable Bryce is for putting models together.  I'm really pleased to see these features because people put epic effort into modeling in Bryce, like it's a cult.

The price, as you would expect after such a large and lengthy amount of development, is set at around $250 (it could change), but seriously, read back what you're getting and you just know you'll never look at another 3D program for another 20 years.  She's worth every penny.  The stability is incredible, didn't even get crashes in the Alpha nevermind the Beta, everything just works, she's lightning fast as well.

So yes, Bryce is back and she will steal your heart.
Then of course I woke up and realised it was all a bloody dream!

What?   Don't fool this old man.  It isn't nice to fool old Bryce lovers.  Do I really see long evenings and sleepless nights staring at a computer screen in my future again?  Is this for real?

Of course it's not for real, like I said, it was all a dream
I think we all suffer from them, I know I do!

Theres no way they could do that 10 TB to just install it you would need a Pedabyte hard drive in you computer (and they don't exist to the public at the moment.) Bryce 8 Studio Pro sounds good shame its only fiction. However I have a plan that hopefully will rise Bryce from the ashes like a phoenix reborn I am going to learn how to make 3d programs and it may take me years I may die before I even near completion(Daz may not agree another possibility.) but I would rather try to do something other than wait for Death. If Charles Babbage could make a Steam Powered Computer before Queen Victoria was on the throne then I am sure with enough hard work and some persuading daz I am gonna try for this maybe the program can have an extra life. However If I could convince them and it did work I wouldn't name it Bryce 8 I would name it Bryce Reborn. and the differences would be these.

1. You don't have to compress or have all you objects postive or negative to make .obj and other files they would simply need to be grouped.

2. I would make it so it could cope with more difficult scenes and I would also ensure you could import jpg images and make them the background.

3. I would try and make it less buggy no one crashing if you import images on mac.

4. I would try to make it have appeal for other modellers as well so it would have all the stuff were used to but with some other elements to keep others interested.

Lets Hope I don't die trying I will be using a Raspberry pi to do it and I will need to learn Java and opengl. I can't make promises but what I will try to do is do my best.

Karl

Willie wakes up from dream. He now is grumpy at Pumeco.

@Karl
Be sure to let me know when you get it running on the Raspberry Pi, that would be neat!

@Skiwillgee
Not half as grumpy as I am at DAZ for not making the dream a reality.  They're much too busy playing around with digital dolls to bother with legendary 3D products such as Bryce.  Bryce is the biggest potential money-spinner on their catalogue, but unless some wise-ass at DAZ realises why that is, it's the design and sale of digital dolls from now on I reckon.

Bummer.

Hi pumeco

of Course I will I hope I can make a new version of bryce as quick as possible. Do you reckon you could be one of the Beta testers when it comes out. I am going to tell daz I am going to try and make a new bryce and let them say if its ok and if they do I am going to do and hopefully they will like it I will let you know once it is ready.

Cheers

Karl

Attached Link: U&I Software Gallery

**
@Karl**
Sounds awesome and ambitious, and yes I'd beta-test, but I don't think you're gonna learn to program everything you need to compete with Bryce in just a few years.  Unless you're a natural at programming and have a genuine passion for hardware like the Pi, I think you might be disappointed.

That said, it would be amazing to have something like Bryce built from the ground up to run on a Raspberry Pi (and it's future replacements).

@MalenySteve
Looks interesting but I wouldn't use an Apple product with a gun to my head, those programs are all Mac so they're pretty much useless to the majority of us.  At the very least, they need to work on Windows too, and better still, GNU/Linux.

Hi Pumeco

Yeah its going to be a tall order it will take a lot of time to complete but hopefully I can do it when I first Started using Bryce there was only one bryce artist I knew his name Was Bambam131 and he was a great inspiration to me and he shared the same phobia I do the eventual demise of Bryce and at the moment it looks grim but I think with the teachings of some friends I know I am sure I can bring out a new version of Bryce in a few years to come it will be a much bigger program as I want to convince Daz Bryce doesn't have to die it can be used for Landscapes and other modellers too if there is another program from withing. I will be sure to post the progress once I am happy with it.

Hi Manely Steve

Thank you for the info I knew someone once who used to work with Artmatic Voyager and it is a very impressive program I didn't know that one of its creators also created Bryce.

Many Thanks

Karl

Pumeco, two words. Seek. Help.   

If I can do this Bryster Could you also be one of the Beta Testers?

Ensure, is the word, not insure.

I, like many here, started on bryce and have fond memories. However, things have moved on and bryce hasn't. Pleanty of other options for rendering, as Bobby sais, Terragen for external and octane forinternal scenes.

Things move on.

Quote - Pumeco, two words. Seek. Help.   

Already tried, Brystie, I visited a special place on a planet many light years from here.
They attached a mind probe to my head but it sent their machine crazy!

Bryce 7 still needs some more surgery and band-aids to take it from (as I see it), its current 90% to 100%, imho.

Bryce 8? No more bandaids, this would have to be a full new build from the ground up. Keep the Brycian soul but with modern day code.

Right now? Other than a little more dynamic Bryce 7, I've always dreamed of DAZ creating an SDK For the current Bryce that would allow anyone (willing to learn how to use the SDK) to make their own plugins for Bryce. Whataver you could imagine you want Bryce to do, could (in theory) be made as an add-on/plugin. THAT would/could give Bryce a more viable future than only looking a the steep uphill battle that would be creating a Bryce 8.

Again, all this is theory (in my mad brain) and as I am not a programmer, I could be completely wrong. :o|

AS

Quote - Ensure, is the word, not insure.

I, like many here, started on bryce and have fond memories. However, things have moved on and bryce hasn't. Pleanty of other options for rendering, as Bobby sais, Terragen for external and octane forinternal scenes.

Things move on.

Yeah but personally I think Terragen sucks Bryce is easier to use in my opinion and you can do more with it. Plus What is the first name in Landscapew Bryce is just because people think Bryce hasn't moved on doesn't mean it isn't going to so technically in my opinion it is worth continuing with I personally don't ike other programs because I think they are harder to learn and don't always have great results but that is just my opinion.

**Hi AgentSmith **

My Best Friend from work named his dog after Agent Smith Do you make matrix images in bryce as well. I think I have seen your work it is very good I don't know how you made ths slime on one of you meta ball aliens. I really like your work its good to meet you officially.

Karl

What is a rasberry pie - assuming it's not food?

Quote - What is a rasberry pie - assuming it's not food?

It's a complete single-board computer about the size of a card, costs around £25 brand new, and is open so you make of it whatever you want. It was originally designed for messing around with but people even use it as their main computer now.  Tiny but powerful enough to run FullHD video no problem, so people often make media computers out of them.  They're ideal for that because they're completely silent, no annoying fans etc.

It runs GNU/Linux or pretty much anything the enthusiasts want to run on it, and you can buy addons that connect to it, like touchscreens, motors and god knows what else.  You could turn it into a robot if you wanted.

Pointless me telling you, there's just too much stuff out there, but search "Raspberry Pi" on YouTube cause there's literally millions of videos on there.  I'm surprised you don't know about it, Brystie!

Click to see the latest model that just got released, a snip at 25 quid!

@ TheBryster; Rasberry Pie - It's a tiny computer, literally. My Wide is dying to get/make one (she's learning how to code and wants one to play on)

@karl.garnham1; You would think I would have done a Matrix render but I never have, lol, didn't occur to me.

@karl.garnham1;; "slime on one of you meta ball aliens"....hmm, not exactly sure which render you're talking about, I can't remember making an alien out of metaballs?

AS

Attached Link: http://www.raspberrypi.org

A Credit Card Sized Computer thats really good for Programming as there isn't really anything you can mess up on it. its a really good tool you can use it to go on the net and to do programming here is a link to their website Link

I might be going for the Banana Pi instead as its a little more powerful but its basically the same thing and it is only £30 quite good for a small computer you would need an HDMI Cable though and a monitor and a SD Card.

Karl

Hi Agent Smith

it was the marbled Star Fish I meant it looks wet and slimy so I thought at first it was an alien as they can be quite similar.

Ah yeah, that one. It's really the mesh and the texture together that truly made that look "slimy".

I think I purchased the mesh/model from the Renderosity Marketplace? (I'll have to check on that) But, it had a ton of these little raised bumps all over it that caught the bright white reflections awesomely in all it's tiny little crevices and that part of the equation was huge in making it appear as if it was wet or slimy.

Then the texture itself gave the mesh a more detailed, overall bump, which was great as the mesh itself was quite smooth/polished, so that equated to further detail into the reflections and specularity. And, then the textures main "Diffuse" texture looks kinda organic/gross looking so, that in itself is a trick for the viewers eye to think of wet gooey things (like certain starfish).

But, as far as settings go, if I want something REALLY reflective, I up the Reflectivity to 100 and then also the Metallicity to 100 (so, it won't just look like mirror/chrome). I bring up the specularity real strong and to a small fine point and then set that to 100. After that, I just render, look at it, start bringing those values down from their 100 settings....render, look at it...repeat, repeat, repeat, lol...until it looks kinda normal/real life.

AS

The mesh/model was a free download at the time and the link is now dead but I found another/new place to grab it;

http://www.3dvia.com/content/D1F5F5C7D9EBFDCF/

This was back when I was into "Math Meshes". I was making some at the time with a program called "TopMod". Here's me blathering about it (6 freaking years ago, lol);

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2750585

AS

Thanks AgentSmith

Sounds like a good texture but it would be worthless without a modeller like you to use it with. I have tried making organic life forms but the only ones I have ever been 100% pleased with are my insects they have a lot of different elements to them. Thanks for the link I will have a look at that it could be useful for making them as well.

Karl

If DAZ is through with Bryce, why not release it into the wild and let the user base take over development work? I'm sure there are more than a few users with programming experience who could work out the existing bugs and add a few features to keep her going for a few more years. As for me, I'll stop using Bryce when they pry it from my cold, dead hands. ;-)

Great Comment Atomic_Anvil

I totally Agree although if I can develope Bryce Reborn I will ask if they still want to put it on their on the condition that it is given as a freebie and maybe sell some online tutorials for new comers. I am going to start learning python first as its very powerful and easy to learn then I will progress to Java and Open gl.

DAZ essentially did release Bryce into the wild, as the program was free from DAZ for quite some time. But, release the code? Lol, nah, (I don't believe) that'll ever happen, DAZ paid decent enough money for Bryce from Corel. And, Bryce helps round out their free/cheap collection of software all of which (Especially Studio) helps sell their most profitable section, the meshes.

But, as I mentioned, my version of "releasing Bryce into the wild" would be having an SDK in which for users to create plugins. Any company would do that way before they would just post the program code. (I would think).

AS

Yes, those were basically my thoughts as well. But when it comes to the point where it's no longer making them any money, why not let the users have a go, whether it be a code refresh or plug-ins. IMO, it would be better to breathe new life into it (and possibly ignite new interest in Bryce) than just letting it languish. Unless they're just trying to force users into other, more expensive replacements.

Quote - DAZ essentially did release Bryce into the wild, as the program was free from DAZ for quite some time. But, release the code? Lol, nah, (I don't believe) that'll ever happen, DAZ paid decent enough money for Bryce from Corel. And, Bryce helps round out their free/cheap collection of software all of which (Especially Studio) helps sell their most profitable section, the meshes.

But, as I mentioned, my version of "releasing Bryce into the wild" would be having an SDK in which for users to create plugins. Any company would do that way before they would just post the program code. (I would think).

AS

There are some valid points being made here and there in this thread that are not being fully connected by many of us readers.

Why no Bryce SDK?
Firstly, as simplistic as everyone says Bryce is, it has some special talents that no other application has. Someone already mentioned about Artmatic and Eric Wenger. What is not being connected by readers of the thread so far is that the procedural generators in Bryce's Material Lab and Terrain Lab are protected by copyright laws and are being used in Artmatic as well as some other applications. Even though Daz owns the Bryce software, they do not have the legal right to mess with certain areas such as procedurals, mapping modes, and some of the other Bryce specific abilities we are all so accustomed to using. Ever wondered why there is no World Cubic mappimg in some high end applications, no Object cubic or sinusoidal, its because these guys still own the rights. Most other applications use UV mapping so all these seemingly essential modes in Bryce are useless in most other applications.

So yeah, Daz owns Bryce....just not every line of code within it. Or a better way to state it, Daz is allowed to distribute Bryce, but not to give away its individual parts because some of those parts are still intellectual property protected by the original creators.

Artmatic and Mojoworld are at least two popular applications I can think of that were developed in some way by either Kai Krausse, Ken Muskgrave, or Eric Wenger after the days of Bryce and are part of the reason why a Bryce sdk still cannot be released. This is also the reason Bryce cannot be made Open Source like Blender.

Two of the most popular ideas offered by the userbase both shot to hell...

It isn't that Daz is stupid, it is literally that their hands are tied legally. 

Sad situation, no?

What about a Bryce 8 developed by Daz 3d then?  Here's why it so far it hasn't happened:

No one has managed to convince Daz3d that Bryce can do useful things that other applications cannot. Show me a look you can achieve in Bryce that cannot be achieved in Vue, Terragen, Carrara or Blender and then maybe we'll be onto something. While Bryce competes just fine in hobbyist markets it has no footing at all with professionals, and professionals are the ones who are dedicated purchasers of software to fund development. Poor people like myself who got into Bryce for it's low cost are not the people who keep the world spinning, you need the big spenders for that, at least for a lot of it. You can see the same thing happening with Carrara development. it too has officially stalled, but I still think we will see a Carrara 9 or 10 before we will see a Bryce 8 or 9.

Bryce has not grown with its user base, it became a tool for introductions to cg only as a stepping stone to other applications. I think lots of 3d software owe their large userbases to Bryce because it was Bryce that got them into cg in the first place. But once they "outgrew" (you can never outgrow Bryce) the obvious tools in Bryce they moved on to other applications which can do things more easily by being 64 bit, faster rendering, better instancing tools, better lighting tools etc.

What next to develop with Bryce?
For example, the rendering engine. While there are lots of improvements that could be made to the engine why would anyone bother? In this modern day of unbiased lightening fast rendering who cares about a new engine if it remains biased and slow as heck? The only other render engine I'd like to see added to Bryce is an unbiased one for Bryce, anything else is still going to leave Bryce behind its competitors. Not that the only engine should be the unbiased one, I actually think we should have two, the current and a new unbiased one. Either that, or they need to develop a plug-in or bridge that gets models into unbiased Octane or Lux, though I strongly prefer Octane. But spending time on this current biased and glacially slow engine is a huge waste of time considering the rendering climate today.

Bryce needs to be made 64 bit first and foremost, but that requires a ground up rewrite, and for that amount of diligence one could develop an entirely new application for which they did indeed own every single line of code...a lot like they did with Daz Studio.

Software development becomes stagnant and "me, too" featured. So companies are looking for ways to rent their apps out like Adobe and Microsoft, or hope a bigger app firm buys them out (see modo, GeoControl, Caligari, etc). If you like Bryce, just keep using it.

im just curious, sorry for coming to the party late... is there something "new" out there now that are causing people to switch off that would give need to worry? ive been out the loop for a while now. its still the same stuff out there right?

I think the death bell has already tolled.  Why would a new user want Bryce?  With some google research, anyone first entering the CG world would recognize the rendering gap has closed and yes Terragen would be a cost effective front runner.  It would take more than the easy to learn interface to sway me if I were a first time buyer.  

If making a product free, or nearly so, didn't flood the world with Brycers, what else is there that could attract a "wave of new users".  If a savy buyer were to investigate they would find the newest releases were buggy and for every new feature added an older feature was lost to bugs and crashes.   Just search this forum for that information.  

I love my Bryce but I also understand it has died a painful death and ressurection spells don't seem to work.  Sorry if that is not your opinion but I have shed my last tear over this.

The reason I think a new user would want Bryce is because of the ease of learning it compared to other software out there, with the ability to get some really great results (e.g. water, lighting). If I was new to 3D I would be intimidated by Poser, Blender and other apps which have interfaces it takes ages to work your way round finding things, and working out how to do stuff. In addition it can import props from DAZ Studio (very handy).

What I do think has not helped Bryce is that it is marketed as a landscaper generator, but it can be used for so much more. I will be really very very sad if Bryce in no longer developed - I use it for all my artwork and don't like other applications to use for this because of it's ease of use. I know how to use DAZ Studio, but I like the the 'look' I can get with Bryce much better.  

I don't think it needs that much to improve from where it is - stability of some features is the main thing I think. 

Test post.