I've read in a few discussions here about people making Genesis2 a native poser figure (aka no dson required).

How can this be done?

Does a tutorial or thread exist explaining how to do this?

Also, is it worth doing? Will any of G2's dson clothing have to be fixed as well? What features of G2 will break by doing this?

Thanks for any help!  

If it is any way how Genesis is exported before DSON, then this video will explain the process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDYEvSb7jQs

But it will involve using DAZStudio and the CR2 Exporter feature.  Otherwise, Dimension3D created a script to import duf and dsa files without the DSON Importer.

http://d3d.sesseler.de/index.php?software=poserpython&product=dson_loader

 Thanks for the links! I'll check this all out for a weekend project... more DS tinkering...blehhh :P

Hi there

Really depends,I usually export her as OBJ or use as above Dimension3D DSON Importer which is better than DSON,but if you want to apply any pose or like that,then I would install at least DSON

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

...Otherwise, Dimension3D created a script to import duf and dsa files without the DSON Importer. http://d3d.sesseler.de/index.php?software=poserpython&product=dson_loader

This script requies the DSON Importer.  It is a utility for loading DSON files that lack Poser Companion files...

 I've read in a few discussions here about people making Genesis2 a native poser figure (aka no dson required).

How can this be done?

Does a tutorial or thread exist explaining how to do this?

Also, is it worth doing? Will any of G2's dson clothing have to be fixed as well? What features of G2 will break by doing this?

 

Thanks for any help!  

Is it worth it?  Short answer - The underwear answer:  It Depends. If you run a cost-benefit analysis, the answer is no.  Quick, how many male characters were made for ALL of the male genesis 2 figures: 53 at DAZ, less than a dozen or so outside of DAZ.  And god forbid you should want anything other than a early 20's, generic Caucasian.

I use it for Dariofish's Aliens for genesis.  Other than this, genesis 1 or 2 don't bring that much to the table.  They don't bend any better than a weight mapped V4, and some of the meshes have serious issues.  As an example, not a single Josie 6 skin has the eyebrows aligned properly with the eye socket.  It is an easy fix with Photoshop Elements, but I shouldn't have to be doing that.  Don't get me started on the whole Every figure has a different UV, because - well, no one as explained WHY that bs was necessary, other than making sure it costs you more money and gives you less flexibility with the content you have paid for.

The handful of vendors building content for genesis 2 on a regular basis just make the same characters, over and over (just like most of the Poser vendors) - and the clothing for the genesis 2 figure aren't as good as what was made for V3/M3 a decade ago.  OTOH, a number of those products ARE the same .obj from a decade ago.  This is not always a bad thing - shoes are problematic, and just using the same .obj over and over isn't necessarily a bad thing.

If you go all in, you will end up spending at least as much on genesis 2 fix products as a Poser Pro upgrade - and at the end of the day, you will have less content than what was built for the SM G2 figures (Sydney & Simon), which I find hilarious after listening to years how they have "no content".

I am building a set of tutorials - it is slow going because:

1. DAZ doesn't understand how documentation is a sales multiplier, and

2. The vendors scatter files all over hell's half acre (Its part of the whole creative process, don't cha' know.  God forbid the customer actually be able to find anything.)

3.  There are also multiple ways to do it depending on how willing you are to install DS, and how much stuff you want to do. 

4.  As a user, you really have to think about what you are doing before you do it.  Which turns off the Load, Conform, Make Art brigade.  There are no 1-click solutions.

To get the best results, I recommend you spend some money for Netherworks' Creator's Toybox, which is very useful for cleaning up the .cr2 after you get it into Poser.

It isn't all bad, there are some things that are quite useful, but overall, don't expect a replacement for V4 - V4WM is a much, much more cost effective solution.

If you really want to use Genesis /Genesis 2 content in Poser, you are much better off using the DSON Importer for Poser. That is what it is for, after all. 

If you really want to use Genesis /Genesis 2 content in Poser, you are much better off using the DSON Importer for Poser. That is what it is for, after all. 

You are missing the scope of the exercise. Doing things the canonical way is for wimps and slaves of the evil corporations; even worse, you end up with a success. Doing things in a convoluted and painful way, ending inevitably with a suboptimal result is the precondition to be able to reach the desired conclusion that the new technology is inferior to the good ol' ways.

...Otherwise, Dimension3D created a script to import duf and dsa files without the DSON Importer. http://d3d.sesseler.de/index.php?software=poserpython&product=dson_loader

This script requies the DSON Importer.  It is a utility for loading DSON files that lack Poser Companion files...

I thought that's what it did (d3d's script)! At least I can now use a few items that I bought BEFORE reading the part about them being DS only...derp! :P Thanks, Wanda!  

@ssgbryan: you make some very valid points! I don't mind using DS long enough to transfer some items, I just don't feel like using it on a permanent basis (unless Poser goes away forever). I've spent a lot of free time over the years getting to know Poser and I just plain like it better than DS. As for cost effectiveness... yeah, I already bought DSON and it DOES work. I just wondered how hard it would be to make G2 native and I agree now, why bother? I haven't used G2 that much, so some of the issues you've pointed out are things I wasn't aware of. Thanks! 

If you really want to use Genesis /Genesis 2 content in Poser, you are much better off using the DSON Importer for Poser. That is what it is for, after all. 

You are missing the scope of the exercise. Doing things the canonical way is for wimps and slaves of the evil corporations; even worse, you end up with a success. Doing things in a convoluted and painful way, ending inevitably with a suboptimal result is the precondition to be able to reach the desired conclusion that the new technology is inferior to the good ol' ways.

No, you simply don't care for the results of my past few months experimenting with DSON - I have run genesis 1 & 2 with DSON and as an exported Poser-native figure.  No comparison - genesis figures in Poser performs better without DSON.

The performance of DSON nose-dives once you move beyond 1 figure.  Granted, if all you are doing is single figure images, it isn't too bad - load genesis, get a cup of coffee while the .obj is being built, rinse, lather, repeat for every .duf you select - the problem is when one moves beyond 1 fully clothed figure, it causes Poser to become crash prone and really slow. (And this is on an 8 core Mac Pro, not an i3 struggling by with 2Gb of ram.)

You see, EVERY .duf file has to go through the DSON subsystem. Not just the character, but every piece of clothing, every pose, every hair, everything.  The software simply isn't robust enough to handle anything beyond 1 fully clothed figure.  And since DAZ has changed course yet again, they will never spend any time on it to make it robust. Not that any of their software was ever anything to write home about in the first place.

It starts with how the genesis product is built - the base assumptions that DAZ started designing the genesis figure and DS 4 were thrown out by the time DS 4.0 was released.  By the time DAZ changed course with where the content you purchased would reside, the file formats were set - which led to some unfortunate 2nd and 3rd order effects.  For example:

The DSON subsystem in Poser will stuff everything it sees into a genesis figure - it is real easy to fire up DSON and end up with a 1Gb figure, before you add the first piece of hair, shoes, or clothes.  Which is why I had to spend so much time on how to structure a DS runtime to make it efficient in Poser.  I have found many, many ways how NOT to do it.  The number one way not to use genesis for instance is to have everything in 1 genesis runtime (i.e. use the DIM with all defaults) - that way leads to madness.

The solution is to build separate runtimes for each of your genesis 2 figures - this means editing your genesis 2 starter essential packages.  Of course there are also differing ways to do that.  One can build 1 base genesis 2 female runtime and keep all of your data/people files that are common in one and then in your separate sculpt runtimes just have your sculpt specific files separate.  Or one can make a separate sculpt runtime and have each one have both common & sculpt specific files - which means you only have to load that 1 runtime into Poser.

Then there is all of the clean-up that must be done after you have saved the genesis figure out.  Not to mention how DSON switches the UVs when you save a DSON genesis figure.  So far, the only way I have figured out how to save out a genesis 2 figure and keep the original UVs is by exporting the figure out of DS.

At the end of the day, you can certainly get a fairly robust figure that doesn't take up a lot of memory (I am able to keep mine around 20 - 40Mb).  The question is are the characters made by the handful of vendors that make content for genesis 2 on a regular basis worth the effort.  The genesis 2 life-cycle had a dozen or so sculpts (as Netherworks refers to them - Aiko 6, Mei Lin 6, Olympia 6, etc) and of those, they only have between 4 - 8 characters made for them.  This ties back into the cost-benefit analysis.  The genesis 2 line is significantly more expensive due to the sculpts, HD morphs and the paucity of actual characters made for them.

At the end of the day the genesis 1 and 2 figures can be used - but the Poser users has to have a good understanding of how the DSON system and the genesis figures work to get the best results.

...Otherwise, Dimension3D created a script to import duf and dsa files without the DSON Importer. http://d3d.sesseler.de/index.php?software=poserpython&product=dson_loader

This script requies the DSON Importer.  It is a utility for loading DSON files that lack Poser Companion files...

I thought that's what it did (d3d's script)! At least I can now use a few items that I bought BEFORE reading the part about them being DS only...derp! :P Thanks, Wanda!  

@ssgbryan: you make some very valid points! I don't mind using DS long enough to transfer some items, I just don't feel like using it on a permanent basis (unless Poser goes away forever). I've spent a lot of free time over the years getting to know Poser and I just plain like it better than DS. As for cost effectiveness... yeah, I already bought DSON and it DOES work. I just wondered how hard it would be to make G2 native and I agree now, why bother? I haven't used G2 that much, so some of the issues you've pointed out are things I wasn't aware of. Thanks! 

Glad I could help. I bothered - there are a number of things that do make genesis a very useful figure in Poser - if you are willing to buy the add-ons ($$$$$$) and spend time with it.  A replacement for V4, it isn't.

In addition to Dariofish's genesis 1 aliens, I do like using the teenagers (I am working on stories & my main characters have families - so I am not doing single image stills, my NVIATWAS time ended about 9 years ago.). 

Another thing that makes genesis useful in Poser, speaking of Dimension3D, is the GenX2 products.  It enables me to put a number of my DAZ Gen3 figures (I have a lot of them) into the genesis 2 base mesh and gets me a weight mapped figure that is pretty light weight.  I'd like it even better if I could get my DAZ Gen2 figues into the genesis 2 base mesh, but I don't see that happening.  The ability to swap out UVs via Slosh's UV mesh products means I have a larger variety of skins to slap on my characters - very important due to the All Caucasians, All The Time that most vendors take.  (Most of my DAZ Gen3 skins can't be saved - too much stuff painted on, which was how we did things a decade ago.)

OTOH, I feel that the DS only props are not worth the effort.  If stonemason for instance, decides to go DS only well, I will miss his products, but I will move onto other vendors.

If you really want to use Genesis /Genesis 2 content in Poser, you are much better off using the DSON Importer for Poser. That is what it is for, after all. 

You are missing the scope of the exercise. Doing things the canonical way is for wimps and slaves of the evil corporations; even worse, you end up with a success. Doing things in a convoluted and painful way, ending inevitably with a suboptimal result is the precondition to be able to reach the desired conclusion that the new technology is inferior to the good ol' ways.

No, you simply don't care for the results of my past few months experimenting with DSON - I have run genesis 1 & 2 with DSON and as an exported Poser-native figure.  No comparison - genesis figures in Poser performs better without DSON.

The performance of DSON nose-dives once you move beyond 1 figure.  Granted, if all you are doing is single figure images, it isn't too bad - load genesis, get a cup of coffee while the .obj is being built, rinse, lather, repeat for every .duf you select - the problem is when one moves beyond 1 fully clothed figure, it causes Poser to become crash prone and really slow. (And this is on an 8 core Mac Pro, not an i3 struggling by with 2Gb of ram.)

You see, EVERY .duf file has to go through the DSON subsystem. Not just the character, but every piece of clothing, every pose, every hair, everything.  The software simply isn't robust enough to handle anything beyond 1 fully clothed figure.  And since DAZ has changed course yet again, they will never spend any time on it to make it robust. Not that any of their software was ever anything to write home about in the first place.

It starts with how the genesis product is built - the base assumptions that DAZ started designing the genesis figure and DS 4 were thrown out by the time DS 4.0 was released.  By the time DAZ changed course with where the content you purchased would reside, the file formats were set - which led to some unfortunate 2nd and 3rd order effects.  For example:

The DSON subsystem in Poser will stuff everything it sees into a genesis figure - it is real easy to fire up DSON and end up with a 1Gb figure, before you add the first piece of hair, shoes, or clothes.  Which is why I had to spend so much time on how to structure a DS runtime to make it efficient in Poser.  I have found many, many ways how NOT to do it.  The number one way not to use genesis for instance is to have everything in 1 genesis runtime (i.e. use the DIM with all defaults) - that way leads to madness.

The solution is to build separate runtimes for each of your genesis 2 figures - this means editing your genesis 2 starter essential packages.  Of course there are also differing ways to do that.  One can build 1 base genesis 2 female runtime and keep all of your data/people files that are common in one and then in your separate sculpt runtimes just have your sculpt specific files separate.  Or one can make a separate sculpt runtime and have each one have both common & sculpt specific files - which means you only have to load that 1 runtime into Poser.

Then there is all of the clean-up that must be done after you have saved the genesis figure out.  Not to mention how DSON switches the UVs when you save a DSON genesis figure.  So far, the only way I have figured out how to save out a genesis 2 figure and keep the original UVs is by exporting the figure out of DS.

At the end of the day, you can certainly get a fairly robust figure that doesn't take up a lot of memory (I am able to keep mine around 20 - 40Mb).  The question is are the characters made by the handful of vendors that make content for genesis 2 on a regular basis worth the effort.  The genesis 2 life-cycle had a dozen or so sculpts (as Netherworks refers to them - Aiko 6, Mei Lin 6, Olympia 6, etc) and of those, they only have between 4 - 8 characters made for them.  This ties back into the cost-benefit analysis.  The genesis 2 line is significantly more expensive due to the sculpts, HD morphs and the paucity of actual characters made for them.

At the end of the day the genesis 1 and 2 figures can be used - but the Poser users has to have a good understanding of how the DSON system and the genesis figures work to get the best results.

All I am going to say to this, is that you are making many assumptions here that simply are not true. And they have been pointed out to you in the past.

All I am going to say to this, is that you are making many assumptions here that simply are not true. And they have been pointed out to you in the past.

Saying that a dog has five legs and no tail doesn't make it true.

These not assumptions, they are the results of my experimentation.  How else am I supposed to find out how things work in DS 4.8?  It isn't like there is complete, current and accurate documentation, now is there?  Find someone to help you should never be part of ANY end user documentation.  And yes,  that italicized phrase is actually in DAZ's documentation. 

Say what you like - should I believe you or my lying eyes?  I believe in the scientific method, even if you don't.

DSON most certainly does cause issues with Poser.  2 fully clothed genesis 2 figures & I am saving every five minutes, because either the dials will stop responding to user input or it pukes completely - remove the need for DSON & the problem goes away.  The variables that changed was turning off DSON and using a genesis figure exported from DS  via File > Export.  I understand that crashing applications is a way of life on the Windows platform, so perhaps you don't even recognize it as a problem - I am running OSX (and before that OS/2, since 1992), so I am simply not as tolerant to misbehaving software as windows users. 

Every .duf files does go through the DSON subsystem - the fake Poser file (.cr2, .mc6, etc). calls a python script (the .py file - this 2 line script is the same in every PCF, only the name is changed), which in turn starts the DSON subsystem (to access the .duf file).

Performance does drop when you move to that second fully clothed figure.    So far, from what I have seen, (again, based on USING the product), I have narrowed it down to 2 possible issues:

1.  32-bit issue, which may mean that it is out of both DAZ & SMs ability to fix.   The idea of rewriting the entire PoserPython subsystem of solid, working code to deal with a few folks that want to use an interpreted scripting language to handle data sets of more than 2Gb isn't very appealing.  And that isn't just SM, most of the python community is still on the Python 2 branch and don't see any reason to move off it.  And even if SM did move to Python 3 branch (currently at 3.4), it isn't like DAZ would actually go and recode DSON, since that is now depreciated software - fixing code isn't exactly their strong suit, based on my experience with DAZ software over the past 11 years or so (Yes, I own Bryce, Cararra, and Hexagon, as well as DS4.8).  One also has to take into account that in the DS/Poserverse, too many users are still running 32-bit systems.  (Note to folks still running a 32-bit system: Get a real computer - you are holding both SM and DAZ back.  If you can't afford a 64-bit computer in 2015, you probably can't afford to purchase content either.)

2.  OSX issue - the DAZ "programmers" are not very familiar with OSX - everything appears to be built in Windows and ported to OSX - the single platform emphasis has other long-term implications for DAZ.  Moving to iray as the default render system for DS will be driving off everyone that doesn't use Nvidia cards - which will be most of the OSX users and windows users that have an AMD card.  Most people aren't going to drop money on a new video card,when there are cheaper options available. (Especially considering how cheap the Poser/DS customer base is.)

The decision on file formats was built on the idea that the DS content would reside on DAZ's servers and would be pushed to the enduser's computer (This was how DAZ was looking to deal with the whole "casual piracy" issue - can't actually pirate something that doesn't leave Utah.)  Good idea, but it doesn't take into the account of Time Warner Cable & Comcast being between DAZ's servers & it's customers.  DAZ isn't the only company that didn't take that into account - every company that pushes moving your data back to the mainframe (AKA "The Cloud"), is making the same mistake. 

There are still references to it along with a fairly concise explanation of why JSON was chosen in the SDK documentation.  I would also send you to the PC forum over at DAZ, but all of the screaming & shouting over this was deleted when DAZ moved to the now dropped forum software a couple of years ago.  For that matter, dig around on You tube, there are still demonstrations of it available - the infamous web-based version of DS4.  

DSON damned well stuffs every morph it can see into a figure when it builds the .obj - it can't be any other way, it is a function of how the original spec was designed.  I have a test folder that the DIM uses to dump anything I purchase from DAZ. I went with that because I knew nothing about how DS worked and I understand that when learning software, start with everything at default status until you know what you are doing.

Using a content library that was DIM default designed, I loaded up a V5 - it took almost 15 minutes to build the figure out & it installed EVERY SINGLE MORPH in that base folder. I had every V5, SP5, A5, M5, YT5, H5, F5 and every 3rd party morph load into the figure, and it was right at 1Gb.  The only way to get around that is to build separate folders/runtimes and only load what you plan on working on (This also works for DS4 - unless you don't mind drilling through literally dozens of folders, many of them only holding a single subfolder looking for something.)

OTOH, if you know how to load a genesis figure via DSON WITHOUT having it load every morph it can see, I would certainly like to know about it - I haven't found anything that covers that in the "documentation center".

Moving right along, maybe you don't mind spending a couple of hours individually deleting 86 empty file channels that DSON creates under the HIDDEN dial - I do - those are memory hogs.  Perhaps you don't mind playing the Where the hell did they put expressions this time? I do.  Consistency may be the hobgoblin of little minds, but my time is valuable, and I don't feel like playing Magellan every time I use a genesis figure.

Then there is the whole lets scatter files everywhere. Vendors don't follow what few guidelines DAZ does provide.  I have vendors that stuff all of their content into a single folder that duplicates everything in a standard My Library or Content (depending on which "standard" the vendor follows). The user facing files in the People subfolder are a mess, due to the proliferation of "ego" folders (and the ads - what the hell is up with that?  If I buy something from DAZ, I KNOW the vendor sells there).

Maybe you don't mind drilling through half a dozen folders (many of them only holding 1 subfolder) while looking for a product. 

And of course there are the addons for products that have no identification of what product they go to, cleverly hidden away in the vendor's subfolder as opposed to the base product subfolder.

The user facing files assume that the end user knows who made every product (another consequence of having products that are vendor focused as opposed to customer focused).  This is why there is a proliferation of  3rd party library programs for DS - the DS system architect (In spite of all evidence to the contrary, I do believe that DAZ has one.) failed in one of their most basic functions.  Hence, months of experimentation figuring out the most efficient layout for my DS content.

In the Pose subfolder, I have had the following PCFs dumped in it:

.cm2 - Camera files

.cr2 - Character files

.lt2 - Light files

.mc6 - Material files

.fc2 - Face files

.hr - Hair files

Any product with PCFs means that I am going to spend 20 minutes or so putting everything where it belongs - all because DAZ "QA" doesn't actually check the PCFs locations.  Don't try to feed me any line about how they do - There is no point to having a standard, if it isn't enforced.

There was planned to be a web-based or online version of DS, as announced at the launch of 4.0, but I certainly don't recall any indication whatsoever that there was ever an intent for it to be on-line only.

All I am going to say to this, is that you are making many assumptions here that simply are not true. And they have been pointed out to you in the past.

Saying that a dog has five legs and no tail doesn't make it true.

These not assumptions, they are the results of my experimentation.  How else am I supposed to find out how things work in DS 4.8?  It isn't like there is complete, current and accurate documentation, now is there?  Find someone to help you should never be part of ANY end user documentation.  And yes,  that italicized phrase is actually in DAZ's documentation. 

Say what you like - should I believe you or my lying eyes?  I believe in the scientific method, even if you don't.

DSON most certainly does cause issues with Poser.  2 fully clothed genesis 2 figures & I am saving every five minutes, because either the dials will stop responding to user input or it pukes completely - remove the need for DSON & the problem goes away.  The variables that changed was turning off DSON and using a genesis figure exported from DS  via File > Export.  I understand that crashing applications is a way of life on the Windows platform, so perhaps you don't even recognize it as a problem - I am running OSX (and before that OS/2, since 1992), so I am simply not as tolerant to misbehaving software as windows users. 

Every .duf files does go through the DSON subsystem - the fake Poser file (.cr2, .mc6, etc). calls a python script (the .py file - this 2 line script is the same in every PCF, only the name is changed), which in turn starts the DSON subsystem (to access the .duf file).

Performance does drop when you move to that second fully clothed figure.    So far, from what I have seen, (again, based on USING the product), I have narrowed it down to 2 possible issues:

1.  32-bit issue, which may mean that it is out of both DAZ & SMs ability to fix.   The idea of rewriting the entire PoserPython subsystem of solid, working code to deal with a few folks that want to use an interpreted scripting language to handle data sets of more than 2Gb isn't very appealing.  And that isn't just SM, most of the python community is still on the Python 2 branch and don't see any reason to move off it.  And even if SM did move to Python 3 branch (currently at 3.4), it isn't like DAZ would actually go and recode DSON, since that is now depreciated software - fixing code isn't exactly their strong suit, based on my experience with DAZ software over the past 11 years or so (Yes, I own Bryce, Cararra, and Hexagon, as well as DS4.8).  One also has to take into account that in the DS/Poserverse, too many users are still running 32-bit systems.  (Note to folks still running a 32-bit system: Get a real computer - you are holding both SM and DAZ back.  If you can't afford a 64-bit computer in 2015, you probably can't afford to purchase content either.)

2.  OSX issue - the DAZ "programmers" are not very familiar with OSX - everything appears to be built in Windows and ported to OSX - the single platform emphasis has other long-term implications for DAZ.  Moving to iray as the default render system for DS will be driving off everyone that doesn't use Nvidia cards - which will be most of the OSX users and windows users that have an AMD card.  Most people aren't going to drop money on a new video card,when there are cheaper options available. (Especially considering how cheap the Poser/DS customer base is.)

The decision on file formats was built on the idea that the DS content would reside on DAZ's servers and would be pushed to the enduser's computer (This was how DAZ was looking to deal with the whole "casual piracy" issue - can't actually pirate something that doesn't leave Utah.)  Good idea, but it doesn't take into the account of Time Warner Cable & Comcast being between DAZ's servers & it's customers.  DAZ isn't the only company that didn't take that into account - every company that pushes moving your data back to the mainframe (AKA "The Cloud"), is making the same mistake. 

There are still references to it along with a fairly concise explanation of why JSON was chosen in the SDK documentation.  I would also send you to the PC forum over at DAZ, but all of the screaming & shouting over this was deleted when DAZ moved to the now dropped forum software a couple of years ago.  For that matter, dig around on You tube, there are still demonstrations of it available - the infamous web-based version of DS4.  

DSON damned well stuffs every morph it can see into a figure when it builds the .obj - it can't be any other way, it is a function of how the original spec was designed.  I have a test folder that the DIM uses to dump anything I purchase from DAZ. I went with that because I knew nothing about how DS worked and I understand that when learning software, start with everything at default status until you know what you are doing.

Using a content library that was DIM default designed, I loaded up a V5 - it took almost 15 minutes to build the figure out & it installed EVERY SINGLE MORPH in that base folder. I had every V5, SP5, A5, M5, YT5, H5, F5 and every 3rd party morph load into the figure, and it was right at 1Gb.  The only way to get around that is to build separate folders/runtimes and only load what you plan on working on (This also works for DS4 - unless you don't mind drilling through literally dozens of folders, many of them only holding a single subfolder looking for something.)

OTOH, if you know how to load a genesis figure via DSON WITHOUT having it load every morph it can see, I would certainly like to know about it - I haven't found anything that covers that in the "documentation center".

Moving right along, maybe you don't mind spending a couple of hours individually deleting 86 empty file channels that DSON creates under the HIDDEN dial - I do - those are memory hogs.  Perhaps you don't mind playing the Where the hell did they put expressions this time? I do.  Consistency may be the hobgoblin of little minds, but my time is valuable, and I don't feel like playing Magellan every time I use a genesis figure.

Then there is the whole lets scatter files everywhere. Vendors don't follow what few guidelines DAZ does provide.  I have vendors that stuff all of their content into a single folder that duplicates everything in a standard My Library or Content (depending on which "standard" the vendor follows). The user facing files in the People subfolder are a mess, due to the proliferation of "ego" folders (and the ads - what the hell is up with that?  If I buy something from DAZ, I KNOW the vendor sells there).

Maybe you don't mind drilling through half a dozen folders (many of them only holding 1 subfolder) while looking for a product. 

And of course there are the addons for products that have no identification of what product they go to, cleverly hidden away in the vendor's subfolder as opposed to the base product subfolder.

The user facing files assume that the end user knows who made every product (another consequence of having products that are vendor focused as opposed to customer focused).  This is why there is a proliferation of  3rd party library programs for DS - the DS system architect (In spite of all evidence to the contrary, I do believe that DAZ has one.) failed in one of their most basic functions.  Hence, months of experimentation figuring out the most efficient layout for my DS content.

In the Pose subfolder, I have had the following PCFs dumped in it:

.cm2 - Camera files

.cr2 - Character files

.lt2 - Light files

.mc6 - Material files

.fc2 - Face files

.hr - Hair files

Any product with PCFs means that I am going to spend 20 minutes or so putting everything where it belongs - all because DAZ "QA" doesn't actually check the PCFs locations.  Don't try to feed me any line about how they do - There is no point to having a standard, if it isn't enforced.

If we are being totally honest, there's no point in your rant. You don't have to worry about PAs creating PCFs any more. More complaining than actual use put the nail in that coffin.

There was planned to be a web-based or online version of DS, as announced at the launch of 4.0, but I certainly don't recall any indication whatsoever that there was ever an intent for it to be on-line only.

I remember - I don't remember who pointed out the Comcast/TWC issue, but I remember a number of us that were yelling about leaving the content on DAZ's servers (I don't know about you, but TWC internet is the suckz - and I hear that Comcast is worse, if such a thing is actually possible) - and having to have an internet connection to make the product function (some things never change). For some reason, there wasn't a lot of trust in the PC forum for DAZ from long-time customers.  I personally thought the concept was elegant and it would certainly lock the customers into a very small walled garden that would be controlled by DAZ (all hookerware, all the time), but the communication between the servers and the end user would be it's downfall - internet service being what it is in the US.
Here is the very first sentence talking about the JSON spec:

JSON (JavaScript Object Notation) is a lightweight data-interchange format. 

This is the start of Wikipedia's entry on JSON:

JSON or JavaScript Object Notation, is an open standard format that uses human-readable text to transmit data objects consisting of attribute–value pairs. It is used primarily to transmit data between a server and web application, as an alternative to XML.

Sorry I can't quote from a JSON manual,  but I am a REXX kinda guy myself ;p).  No doubt a result of my time working at IBM (and luvin' my OS/2 boxen)

JSON doesn't make any sense if it isn't web-based and pushing content from a server to an application.  That is the primary purpose for the existence of JSON. 

AFA DS 4.0 release, a number of things flamed out pretty spectacularly - like thinking people would pay for it.  (Sorry, but if I didn't say it - someone else would have.)

Terrance, there are a number of people that could use your help up in the DS forums.  Have you ever thought about spending any of the time you spend disrupting Poser threads up there helping customers that actually support your platform of choice?  Just a thought. 

I am sure I am not the only person that took the trouble to figure out how to get you on the ignore list.

There was planned to be a web-based or online version of DS, as announced at the launch of 4.0, but I certainly don't recall any indication whatsoever that there was ever an intent for it to be on-line only.

I remember - I don't remember who pointed out the Comcast/TWC issue, but I remember a number of us that were yelling about leaving the content on DAZ's servers (I don't know about you, but TWC internet is the suckz - and I hear that Comcast is worse, if such a thing is actually possible) - and having to have an internet connection to make the product function (some things never change). For some reason, there wasn't a lot of trust in the PC forum for DAZ from long-time customers.  I personally thought the concept was elegant and it would certainly lock the customers into a very small walled garden that would be controlled by DAZ (all hookerware, all the time), but the communication between the servers and the end user would be it's downfall - internet service being what it is in the US.
Here is the very first sentence talking about the JSON spec:

JSON (JavaScript Object Notation) is a lightweight data-interchange format. 

This is the start of Wikipedia's entry on JSON:

JSON or JavaScript Object Notation, is an open standard format that uses human-readable text to transmit data objects consisting of attribute–value pairs. It is used primarily to transmit data between a server and web application, as an alternative to XML.

Sorry I can't quote from a JSON manual,  but I am a REXX kinda guy myself ;p).  No doubt a result of my time working at IBM (and luvin' my OS/2 boxen)

JSON doesn't make any sense if it isn't web-based and pushing content from a server to an application.  That is the primary purpose for the existence of JSON. 

AFA DS 4.0 release, a number of things flamed out pretty spectacularly - like thinking people would pay for it.  (Sorry, but if I didn't say it - someone else would have.)

Terrance, there are a number of people that could use your help up in the DS forums.  Have you ever thought about spending any of the time you spend disrupting Poser threads up there helping customers that actually support your platform of choice?  Just a thought. 

I am sure I am not the only person that took the trouble to figure out how to get you on the ignore list.

They already get my help as well as others thanks. But you should know that posts like yours actually ended poser support beyond the technical difficulties vendors had in converting genesis items for use in Poser. What I did in the past was to actually say that people that wanted to use poser (since they bought their licenses) to render genesis items should have a say in this forum and they were constantly drowned out. Now that the support no longer exists, there is in no point in saying what those vendors should do... PAs don't do it anymore, and it is time for people to look to SM to fill their needs for figures. And none of that falls on my shoulders. And it never did. And even without my posts, users would go after each other like hungry cannibals... you all did that with every single poser character that's been released in the last few years: antonia, michelle, dawn, etc.

There was planned to be a web-based or online version of DS, as announced at the launch of 4.0, but I certainly don't recall any indication whatsoever that there was ever an intent for it to be on-line only.

I remember - I don't remember who pointed out the Comcast/TWC issue, but I remember a number of us that were yelling about leaving the content on DAZ's servers (I don't know about you, but TWC internet is the suckz - and I hear that Comcast is worse, if such a thing is actually possible) - and having to have an internet connection to make the product function (some things never change). For some reason, there wasn't a lot of trust in the PC forum for DAZ from long-time customers.  I personally thought the concept was elegant and it would certainly lock the customers into a very small walled garden that would be controlled by DAZ (all hookerware, all the time), but the communication between the servers and the end user would be it's downfall - internet service being what it is in the US.
Here is the very first sentence talking about the JSON spec:

JSON (JavaScript Object Notation) is a lightweight data-interchange format. 

This is the start of Wikipedia's entry on JSON:

JSON or JavaScript Object Notation, is an open standard format that uses human-readable text to transmit data objects consisting of attribute–value pairs. It is used primarily to transmit data between a server and web application, as an alternative to XML.

Sorry I can't quote from a JSON manual,  but I am a REXX kinda guy myself ;p).  No doubt a result of my time working at IBM (and luvin' my OS/2 boxen)

JSON doesn't make any sense if it isn't web-based and pushing content from a server to an application.  That is the primary purpose for the existence of JSON. 

AFA DS 4.0 release, a number of things flamed out pretty spectacularly - like thinking people would pay for it.  (Sorry, but if I didn't say it - someone else would have.)

Primarily used for doesn't mean exclusively used for. The things that may make JSON attractive for on-line provision also make it attractive as a local storage medium for something like content which generates a lot of assets. I know when Randall first let the news of DIM slip there was concern that it would mark a move to some kind of walled garden, but that misreading was the nearest I recall anyone getting to say there would be an end to local content (and as someone with a capped data allowance I would certainly have noticed and screamed loudly had anything of the kind been mentioned).

Hmm, as I've just finally (after 2 years) become good at using G2F in Poser, I agree there is a lot of things TO AVOID. For example (sorry DAZ) avoid adding new figures you don't plan to use. For example, I installed Ninive 6 (a skinny gal) and found she adds about 250 KB to every Pz3 I create (all the morph dial, FPM, PBM, etc).If you don't use, why allow such waste?

So now I am building a new runtime of G2F things just for Poser. I am not really seeing anything crippling about 2 DSON figures with clothes. Yah, PP2014 is a little sluggish, but it is not debilitating.