Snarlys site.

http://www.snarlygribbly.org/3d/forum/index.php?sid=46544f8657e57954104d9ade81159922

Many thanks. Have downloaded. Cheers 

More than a week has passed since many people, e.g. bagginsbill, have asked clarifications on the level of accessibility to the Cycles engine thru the Material Room.

Why this silence? It does take two minutes to write a post "all Cycles nodes will be mapped into the material room". Unless the answer is the understandable letdown of "forget it, you will only get what Firefly exposes today".

More than a week has passed since many people, e.g. bagginsbill, have asked clarifications on the level of accessibility to the Cycles engine thru the Material Room.

Why this silence? It does take two minutes to write a post "all Cycles nodes will be mapped into the material room". Unless the answer is the understandable letdown of "forget it, you will only get what Firefly exposes today".

I think they're not done with the changes to the material room, from what I read, to give the answer. I would imagine additional nodes specifically for Cycles need to be added to the material room, and possibly some type of script to convert current materials to a format cycles can use. I doubt all shaders can be converted since they are specific to a particular render engine; so things that use actual maps will be easiest to port over.

Nerd3D words were a poem of ambiguity since they could be interpreted equally well in two different ways:

a - all the Cycles specific nodes are/will be exposed as Material Room nodes (e.g. I will be able to istantiate the equivalent of that node that tells me whether a ray is a camera or diffuse or reflected or whatever one)

b - each of the Firefly nodes will have a canonical, possibly null, translation into Cycles nodes, without adding a single bit of Cycles specific functionalities.

baggingsbill asked to clarify this point. Nerd3D is currently MIA and Teyon is following the Men in Black quote "your mother tongue will be silence". Since this is not (should not be) a discussion about Pentagon Congress-not-even-aware black projects, some clarifications would be pleasant.

     What this is, is a sneak peek.  It is not yet a full and finalized feature announcement.  In time, more detail will be revealed.  Give the elves time to tinker in Santa's workshop.

haven't used new P11 mesh lites yet, but do they emit specular?

 if specular is emitted from point sources, I reckon not, but if from single polygons, maybe they can.

 we would still have to use reflection node to simulate specular in scenes with only mesh lites?

Thats great news...But Chuck what about figures development...? Or even genesis compatibility? You cant just stand there and let Daz getting so much advanced over this matter....we cant be so...outdated! They have a new render engine as well...but we are very behind on figures matter.... What are you thinking about this? 

As a professional artist im giving you this advice...do not afraid to expand yourselves in this area just because the other program is free....people with deep knowledge of poser wont change their workflow over night...but with the path you have chose in a  couple of years you wont have any clients.....sorry for my outbreak but its been inside me for too long! YOU MUST RESOLVE THE ISSUE WITH FIGURES,!!  

Content is king. Wait, didn't I already sat that? LOL. Much more in the pipe. This is just the first drop.

Aren't you guys a little late with this all? Sorry for you Nerd, i know your long around here with passion.
Poser got my attention when parenting features and softbody in poser gamedev/2014 show up, but hell it's horrible work out!!!
(softbody should be realtime these days certainly in a program that cost $400), Blender can do it for $0
Also the program is called Poser, but still is horrible to Pose in 2015, if you had some better work out features of puppeteer and powerpose tools like dazstudio = pose time savers! sadly,
Poser lost all my personal interest a while ago, all the goodies appear over at the daz side these days. (in a free program)
If dazstudio Animation problems get solved and daz get some workable inverse/forward kinematics setup or even cloth and soft body dynamics with physX.

then poser is totally dead for me, really sorry for your hard work guys.
let poser dy and join the daz team to bring more goodies, poser 's biggest problem is it's need a total rebuild from the beginning.
For years Poser was jumping from business to business for a reason and it didn't do good for poser at all!

I can do things with poser that I can't do with daz.  so I'll stick to poser and see what is coming next, thanks anyway.

Love esther

Yeah, listen, I bet the new Poser has got particules!!!

Later,
Roxie - Girl With Blade

     Snarlygribbly has already adapted Particles 3 (now Particles 3+).  It should run in P11, and It can be retrofitted to Poser Pro 2014.  It may work in P9/Pro2012, but I haven't tried it.

How fares Snarlygribbly script with 450,000 instances of a trees, bushes and rocks?

BlenderArtists thread. No, Cycles won't give you this unless you have an appropriate particle system engine beneath it.

Quote from this thread on RuntimeDNA, post #10

The way we're implementing the new render engine is a perfect example. The only new interface will be the options for it. No way around that. It will use materials you already know from FireFly. There will be very little learning curve to get into a Physical Render. Basically just turn it on and start playing. Of course there will be advanced settings that need some time to learn but you will be able to lean those as you go.

As I had expected, the answer to baggingsbill and to everybody who had wild dreams about using the full power of Cycles in Poser is therefore a resounding middle finger.

Don't start crying, you will still get the new activation and, if my divinations are right, a collaboration with Hivewire3D .

Quote from this thread on RuntimeDNA, post #10

The way we're implementing the new render engine is a perfect example. The only new interface will be the options for it. No way around that. It will use materials you already know from FireFly. There will be very little learning curve to get into a Physical Render. Basically just turn it on and start playing. Of course there will be advanced settings that need some time to learn but you will be able to lean those as you go.

As I had expected, the answer to baggingsbill and to everybody who had wild dreams about using the full power of Cycles in Poser is therefore a resounding middle finger.

Don't start crying, you will still get the new activation and, if my divinations are right, a collaboration with Hivewire3D .

"Of course there will be some advanced settings that need some time to learn" Are people so desperate to find things to complain about they don't bother reading their own supposed "proof"? Wait, never mind, that's a silly question. Of course they are.

Oh that is totally wrong, SM adding something new that makes it easier for people to use while still providing a method for advance users to be able to look , and play, under the hood.  The next thing you know they will be documenting these features before they launch the new Poser.  Just what will these evil people at SM do to our beloved Poser next.

Strange, some people seem to be terrified that Poser might be able to compete in the market! Why? Their software of choice is so perfect, and Poser so full of flaws, that there should be nothing to worry about, right? So why all the fear?

If I was SM, I'd be working on a team to push the envelope to produce the quality content necessary to act as a jump-starter for the marketplace and I'd run the marketing department over-time, every week, with content-promotion and content-creation partnerships with quality vendors who push the limits of new platform features. New features are great, but they're meaningless if there aren't any products that use them.

Agreed. However having such a structure in place is not cheap and takes a while to get working right. Yes there might not be any short term financial gain, but in the long run it can definitely pay off. You as a company need to show seriousness in supporting a feature or platform as well as supporting it with content, provided it's viable of course. Others will follow if you set an example.

You cannot expect others to invest in something if you the creator are not willing to do so yourself. Same applies for figures. The whole "here is a new toy, have fun" mentality doesn't work anymore from a financial standpoint. You need to invest in it if others are to invest in you. Which is why I wonder how this Cycles system is going to work. Is SM just going to release it and expect people to do things themselves, or are they going to provide users with Shaders, lights etc. Do they have content developers providing those things as well? Time will tell. If not, I doubt the casual user will be that interested if it means more work on their behalf to use the new engine.I agree. However, nothing easy is worth doing... Or, at least worth paying someone to do. If someone wishes to actually make money, then they have to elect to do the "hard stuff."

In this case, what it means is a good marketing push and a partnership with artists that have proven their skills, not just artists who have agreed to pay marketing fees... For instance, let's say SM gives Renderosity an extra 5 or 10% kickback rebate for all new Poser programs purchased. But, they do this in consideration of Renderosity instituting a structured marketing program that highlights products that meet certain rigid Poser 11 requirements. In essence, it's a "pay for promo" scheme where much of the "work" is done in promotion by third-party resellers and content sellers. A "Poser 11" graphic, showing buyers that a product contains special features for Poser 11 users, gets put on applicable products. The particulars would be outlined in the rebate agreement, but the focus would be for resellers to more strongly coordinate their efforts in not only targeting such rebates, but also in the promotion of quality products that meet a "known" standard, acting not only to increase visibility of a new product (Poser), but communicating to users that certain products meet very high standards of production.

Of course, every reseller wants their customers to believe all their products reach such standards... But, the truth is, their customers already know that they don't all have such lofty standards. A lot can be said for a simple sticker plastered on a product that points out it has settings/options specifically crafted to take advantage of "new, awesome, outstanding, ridiculously cool" capabilities. Even if resellers/SM didn't have such a program, individual creators could take advantage of "catching a new wave" by not only promoting their products, but by promoting new features that take advantage of new technology.

Of course, it takes little effort, given the tech we're looking at, to produce decent alternative installs/materials/whatever to make the product compatible with legacy software. Any competent creator should be able to produce alternatives for users of legacy software as a companion file/setting for their genre of products that can take advantage of new tech.

SM could do this or resellers could do this, on their own, with little other than some sort of competent Q.A. screening program, which all resellers should have in place, if they value their reputation. If there's such a program in place, here, for instance, then it would take little more than an artist pumping out a "sticker" and someone squeezing out a vendor white-paper regarding what sorts of new tech the product must include in order to get special recognition as being something that showcases new product features. (And, where are people going to go to find products that obviously take advantage of the capability of their multi-hundred-dollar new software? They're going to go to the place that has all the stickers on their products that say those products take advantage of those new features...)

/shrug

But, unfortunately, that's probably too hard for most resellers to coordinate. At least, most of them. I've only seen one reseller that handles new product and marketing pushes well and that maintains a stable of "brand name" creators who are known for their quality products.

Strange, some people seem to be terrified that Poser might be able to compete in the market! Why? Their software of choice is so perfect, and Poser so full of flaws, that there should be nothing to worry about, right? So why all the fear?

It's hysterical that the only thread participants for several pages are the DAZ vendors using this thread to denigrate, insult, demean and discourage Poser users and Poser vendors.

     One would think that this cadre of DAZ vendors would be content to revel in their newfound riches, with benign indifference to what's going on with Poser.

     If SmithMicro were to incorporate a Physics Based Renderer without translating the Firefly materials, the usual suspects would howl at the lack of support, incomplete job, etc.

     If SmithMicro does work out code logic to translate Firefly materials -a considerable achievement, by the way- the same gang crows that SM are crippling the Cycles implementation.  Of course, they're making an unspoken assumption that there will be no provision for material modifications.

     Look in the D/S forum here at R'osity.  Look at the D/S forum at RDNA.  Look in the DAZ forum.  Notice that when Genesis 3 was announced, Poser users did not go to the D/S forums to pee on their parade.  When iRay was announced, Poser users did not go to the D/S forums to ridicule, cast doubt, and prophesy impending doom.

     I want to stress that the great majority of D/S users and vendors would not do such a thing;  it is only this one pack of Grima Wormtongues showing up in every Poser forum.  And in the HiveWire forum.  If your Genesis & D/S vendoring is as prosperous as you say, then why waste your time here trying to convince us to abandon ship?  Go forth into your golden future and leave us poor Poser wretches to our miserable fate.

     In response to the reference by Chaecuna to Snarlygribbly's re-code of Particles (Particles 3+):  It is particles, not plant instancing, and you know it.  Snarly gave of his own time and expertise to gift the Poser community with Particles 3+.  Snarly deserves, nay, has earned our gratitude, not your contempt.

(Munching popcorn)

When does the next marketing feces flinging begin?

And Nerd....despite it all***, I*** at least still wanna see what animation improvements might be in the offing.....

     Snarlygribbly has already adapted Particles 3 (now Particles 3+).  It should run in P11, and It can be retrofitted to Poser Pro 2014.  It may work in P9/Pro2012, but I haven't tried it.

Works in P9 through PP2014. I've tested in all 4 of them. I don't have Game Dev but I see no reason it won't work there as well.

     Look in the D/S forum here at R'osity.  Look at the D/S forum at RDNA.  Look in the DAZ forum.  Notice that when Genesis 3 was announced, Poser users did not go to the D/S forums to pee on their parade.  

Actually they did. Even Vilters ran into the DS forum. (where is he anyway) The DAZ forum on Rendo is a lot more active as a result.

I found a thread started in the Poser forum bragging on V7 (she is indeed a superb figure), to which Vilters posted.  The thread was eventually moved to the D/S forum.  I didn't see anything other than that.  However, if I missed something, and some Poser user(s) posted to a thread started in a D/S forum, disparaging V7, D/S, or D/S users, I apologize for my fellow Poser user's behavior.  I do not condone disrupting a celebration of accomplishment, whether it be the release of V7, or introduction of iRay to D/S, or the introduction of Cycles to Poser.  These are all good things.

 Look at the D/S forum at RDNA.

There is a DS forum at RDNA? I just checked and couldn't find one, where is it hidden at (I missed the Poser 11 forum completely too until someone here linked to it...DUH)?

   Yes, there is a D/S forum at RDNA.

I found a thread started in the Poser forum bragging on V7 (she is indeed a superb figure), to which Vilters posted.  The thread was eventually moved to the D/S forum.  I didn't see anything other than that.  However, if I missed something, and some Poser user(s) posted to a thread started in a D/S forum, disparaging V7, D/S, or D/S users, I apologize for my fellow Poser user's behavior.  I do not condone disrupting a celebration of accomplishment, whether it be the release of V7, or introduction of iRay to D/S, or the introduction of Cycles to Poser.  These are all good things.

There were other threads in that forum that had other poser forum members participation as well as some members increasing posting in the DAZ3D forums as well. But I don't think the forum thread had anything to do with celebrating anything, more of the frustration that some users are having with their current figure needs. But I do agree that people need to wait until the final product is released and see how things are set up before saying anything that may be incorrect or misleading.

     Well, participation in a thread is not even close to being the same as trolling a thread.  All and sundry are welcome to participate.  Disparaging every effort made to improve software/figures is just rude.  I say, If you despise Poser, stay out of the Poser forum;  if you despise D/S, stay out of the D/S forum.  Let those who enjoy that program have their place in the sun.

     Well, participation in a thread is not even close to being the same as trolling a thread.  All and sundry are welcome to participate.  Disparaging every effort made to improve software/figures is just rude.  I say, If you despise Poser, stay out of the Poser forum;  if you despise D/S, stay out of the D/S forum.  Let those who enjoy that program have their place in the sun.

Conversely, if you despise DS, keep it out of your posts so it does not need to be responded to or corrected. This has been the issue since day one of the genesis release and I think everyone knows that. And correcting those posts isn't trolling, trashing a product before hand is.

   Yes, there is a D/S forum at RDNA.

Thanks!!!

Again I state that some folks own both DAZ Studio and Poser. We still have a right to complain that Poser is behind the times.

Could we have a Poser render option, similar to Octane fast render?

There's already a Poser Plugin for Octane if you specifically want to use Octane. 

No. I mean: could we have a built-in fast and realistic render option inside Poser (similar to Octane, not plugin for Octane),

instead of using another slow render waiting for a long time for results.

Face tracking of kinect inside poser.

Good to see Blender eating into to Vue territory, that video looks pretty damn good!
Let's hope they eat into Marvelous Designer territory next (yay)!

Of course, if both those programs had reasonable pricing, I wouldn't have said that with such enthusiasm :-D

Good to see Blender eating into to Vue territory, that video looks pretty damn good!
Let's hope they eat into Marvelous Designer territory next (yay)!

Of course, if both those programs had reasonable pricing, I wouldn't have said that with such enthusiasm :-D

I bought Marvelous Designer 2 when it was $100. Now that would buy me 6 weeks of 'rental' of MD4. Not gonna happen. MD4 can do some nice tricks, but it's not $450 better than what's in MD2.

"Again I state that some folks own both DAZ Studio and Poser. We still have a right to complain that Poser is behind the times"

Thank you

I own Both poser pro 2014 and DS pro 4x as well as Iclone pro with 3Dxchange.

Since SM is actually Charging Money for poser we users have the right to complain  and or offer opinions about its feature set.

"And Nerd....despite it all, I at least still wanna see what animation improvements might be in the offing....."

Yeah.... I used to care about that too but alas I have moved on to Iclone,Endorphin and DS for my Character animation production.

But it is quite good to see the still render majority get a decent internal PBR as Firefly was just rubbish IMHO.

wolf359 we always have a right to complain about any product! Some of the reactions here remind me of superstitious people who think anyone different is a witch!

I tried Blender many years ago, but couldn't understand anything. Couldn't find any docs. I had the same problem with Carrara, Hexagon, etc.

One would think that this cadre of DAZ vendors would be content to revel in their newfound riches, with benign indifference to what's going on with Poser.

If your Genesis & D/S vendoring is as prosperous as you say, then why waste your time here trying to convince us to abandon ship?  Go forth into your golden future and leave us poor Poser wretches to our miserable fate.     

Got poser version from 2010 to 2014 game dev and game dev was definitly my latest!
Sorry but if SmithMicro would come up with new poser versions and ask $499 for this program, then it need a complete rebuild from the beginning and lot's more of innovation. at a price range from $499 i expect realtime dynamics and realtime softbody and parenting features that work a lot easier then it 's available today in poser. the feature of poser is Blender but not anymore at a price range max around $100  poser is not worth $499 anymore, there is no powerfull innovation.

The days of 3d milking in poserworld are over.
Indie versions available of Modo and Maya LT and a free Blender alternative.
Zbrush and 3dCoat all around same price range only difference those other software really works well.

One would think that this cadre of DAZ vendors would be content to revel in their newfound riches, with benign indifference to what's going on with Poser.

If your Genesis & D/S vendoring is as prosperous as you say, then why waste your time here trying to convince us to abandon ship?  Go forth into your golden future and leave us poor Poser wretches to our miserable fate.     

Got poser version from 2010 to 2014 game dev and game dev was definitly my latest!
Sorry but if SmithMicro would come up with new poser versions and ask $499 for this program, then it need a complete rebuild from the beginning and lot's more of innovation. at a price range from $499 i expect realtime dynamics and realtime softbody and parenting features that work a lot easier then it 's available today in poser. the feature of poser is Blender but not anymore at a price range max around $100  poser is not worth $499 anymore, there is no powerfull innovation.

The days of 3d milking in poserworld are over.
Indie versions available of Modo and Maya LT and a free Blender alternative.
Zbrush and 3dCoat all around same price range only difference those other software really works well.

Accept of course that, if you have Game Dev you should not have to pay $499.  The question has to be then are the new features worth what you will be asked to pay for the upgrade and that is a decision that only you can answer. So far I have upgraded Poser at every release from Poser 5 and the only one I regret is Game Dev and that had nothing to do with the working features.  Even then I paid peanuts for it as I took up the launch offer so I am not that upset.

Lots of people here still use Poser when there is a 'free' alternative and continue to do so even though some try to ram the alternative down our throat.  You have stated what you need in the next version for you to upgrade and there is nothing wrong with that but it is your personal opinion, nothing more.

Any more peeks around?  Or more updated information since the first post?

I have more renders I could share but no public statements about any additional features have been announced yet, no.

Any more peeks around?  Or more updated information since the first post?

I posted earlier about the follow up that that Nerd3D released on RuntimeDNA. The economic outlook that Smith Micro released yeasterday does not warrant much enthusiasm for the future.

Here are a shot I did after work last. With the exception of the label, all procedural textures using one or two nodes for the metal and glass and I think about four nodes for the wood (don't have the scene open to verify the amount in the wood).

Here are a shot I did after work last. With the exception of the label, all procedural textures using one or two nodes for the metal and glass and I think about four nodes for the wood (don't have the scene open to verify the amount in the wood).

Lovely!!!!
So, for clarity, this is set up in the Poser material room and rendered with Cycles in Poser?

CPU render?  Approximate render times?  Using Poser lights?  IBL?  HDRI?

Thanks. It's setup in the material room, rendered using SuperFly (Poser's implementation of Cycles), made with two Area Lights only.  As for render times, I wasn't really paying attention to that because the code's still being worked on but at this quality, I think around 5 to 10 minutes.

Was going to post this too, hence the grammatically incorrect "are" in the post earlier.  I feel like I may have posted this here already though, so if I did, sorry:

Also, besides the fact the code isn't done yet so things will likely change anyway, my render times shouldn't be too indicative of anything. I am running a first generation i7. Really should upgrade at some point.

Any more peeks around?  Or more updated information since the first post?

I posted earlier about the follow up that that Nerd3D released on RuntimeDNA. The economic outlook that Smith Micro released yeasterday does not warrant much enthusiasm for the future.

I might get worried about that normally but as it is you, I'll skip any concern.

So yes, it's currently under 10 minutes to do that wine bottle render with Superfly. Comparatively, Firefly is taking longer than that to just calculate the Indirect Light, gonna go ahead and cancel the Firefly render now because...well...I got stuff to do. Oh and it's 7 nodes for that wood. Could have done it with 5 but I threw cloud nodes in there hoping it would add some variety to the colors. Not really sure how well that worked. 

Thanks. It's setup in the material room, rendered using SuperFly (Poser's implementation of Cycles), made with two Area Lights only.  As for render times, I wasn't really paying attention to that because the code's still being worked on but at this quality, I think around 5 to 10 minutes.

I do realize things are still being implemented, but the info I asked for does still give us an idea of what's involved with getting a render out of Superfly.  Thank you for answering. I think we all understand the final implementation may change.
The materials look absolutely stunning, especially the white jug.  All are excellent, but that one really stands out.

I'm really excited and your info coincides with my own experiences with Cycles in Blender.