I don't want this to be seen or thought of as a SJW moment, but a thought just occurred to me. While looking in a fresh download of Poser 12, it occurred to me to change the ethnicity of the figure (in this case, Lafemme). And while I could do it myself, I was feeling somewhat lazy and thought I'd check the skin tones materials that came with Poser and see what they were like for say a black person, asian, or hispanic. Nothing. so I thought I'd check to see if there were morphs to change the ethnicity of the figures. Again, nothing.

Normally, I would just let this go, and you'd hear no more of it from me, but admittedly, I'm wondering now if the lack of ethnic identities for the Poser figures was an oversight, intentional or you just thought some third party would fill the gap? Poser has, in the past, included other ethnicities with it's figures, so why the change?

You bring up an interesting point, a subject that could become debatable.  From what I've seen, the ethnicity packages seem to be delegated to third-party vendors who are wise enough to see the need and fill their pocketbooks.  But to drive a point, it is difficult to create those textures in terms of detail and color.  For example, Blacks come in various shades of brown, from very dark to almost white.  Latin American Hispanics also have numerous blends of indigenous natives and European settlers, in addition to African slaves introduced into the colonies.  I believe that the most challenging skin to reproduce would be from Blacks, especially the hand palms, foot soles, and skin specularity.

You bring up an interesting point, a subject that could become debatable.  From what I've seen, the ethnicity packages seem to be delegated to third-party vendors who are wise enough to see the need and fill their pocketbooks.  But to drive a point, it is difficult to create those textures in terms of detail and color.  For example, Blacks come in various shades of brown, from very dark to almost white.  Latin American Hispanics also have numerous blends of indigenous natives and European settlers, in addition to African slaves introduced into the colonies.  I believe that the most challenging skin to reproduce would be from Blacks, especially the hand palms, foot soles, and skin specularity.

The reason for its demise is the restriction against third-party development.  Only legacy and Content Paradise Generation 2 models were given the capacity to utilize that feature.  None of the DAZ models nor independent creators had those privileges, it was all proprietary, models exclusively marketed for Poser.  Believe me, if DAZ were allowed to contribute in that regard the Face Room would still be a viable feature.  But, seeing that the feature was squandered on models that didn't really meet user's expectations and vendor support, it's no wonder it was deprecated from the software.  It's a shame.  I do agree that the variation of skin color choices is rather thin in many artists, vendors, and users' palettes which seems to be contradictory to their outcry for more diversity yet lacking in the creativity of producing products for a broader market.  I would welcome the proliferation of greater character diversity but I don't expect that to happen any time soon.

"outcry for more diversity yet lacking in the creativity of producing products for a broader market."

That statement in an art perspective is problematic on so many levels. It doesn't have anything to do with creativity or lack of creativity especially. Since when does creative art making (or some supposedly quantifiable quality of creativity) have ANYTHING to do with a "broader market"?

H. R. Giger never once painted a picture of Nancy and Sluggo. Must not be creative.

Van Gogh never once painted a debutante sullying her prom dress from too much punch. Must not be creative.

Lol. And on and on.

I get and understand OP's concerns but that section of response wouldn't get past the most dull of scrutiny in any kind of critical thinking art environment. And I'm not just saying this to be argumentative.

There aren't as many standalones being made for Poser. And not as many artists making stuff for Poser any more. There's still people making different ethnicity character sets for existing figures. Mostly Genesis, which isn't Poser. I see Aphrodite making characters for LF LH. What other figures are there really. Dawn? I'm sure someone is making diverse characters there, though I haven't looked too much at Dawn. There's just not that many Poser figures and Poser artists any more.

There aren't as many standalones being made for Poser. And not as many artists making stuff for Poser any more. There's still people making different ethnicity character sets for existing figures. Mostly Genesis, which isn't Poser. I see Aphrodite making characters for LF LH. What other figures are there really. Dawn? I'm sure someone is making diverse characters there, though I haven't looked too much at Dawn. There's just not that many Poser figures and Poser artists any more.

Unfortunately, it seemed the face room support was lacking in options. Judy and Don had more dials than later figures. And if you changed the skin tone, then the head didn't match the rest of the body. It was a great idea but seemed poorly implemented.

The last time I looked, Gen3/8 LF and LH and Hivewire are all that's supported in the marketplace currently, unless it's multi-figure items like hair.

I'd like to see more ethnic figures too. There are a few for each of them if you look, but not as many as we might hope. I haven't seen many merchant resources for ethnic skin and many creators need those to make figures.

I don't consider myself as a reference, not even slightly, but each time I publish a dark skin based picture, even if the ethnicity is somewhat respected, the picture collects far less fav's on deviantart (I know that this isn't a reference as well) but I wonder if this fact isn't cruelly marketplace-inspired...

I don't think ethnicity has ever been done well in Poser, at least "out of the box."

The closest were the G2 figures, but those had to be purchased separately. (Though they were cheap or free for Passport Club members.)

V1/2 and M1/2 had a "tone" package with MAT files that would change the skintones of the figure, but that resulted in palms and soles also ending up dark. Not very realistic.

The ethnic morphs for V3/M3 had to be purchased separately, and didn't work very well. They looked nice enough, but the standard expression morphs broke the mesh.

V4/M4 were better, with their "elite" morphs and textures, but again, they had to be purchased separately.

La Femme has ethnic characters you can purchase separately, and Dawn 2 will be the same. (The ethnic characters for Dawn 2 that Cath is working on look amazing.)

I think they should include the "ethnic" G2 figures as part of the free content for Poser. I doubt they're selling many copies of Kelvin, Olivia, etc. now.  And diversity is important for the corporate types who might use Poser for training videos and the like.

Ryan and Alison came with ethnic versions. There was Alisha, Maria and Izumi and Diego, Marcus and Tomo that came with Poser. Paul 2 and Pauline 2 had European, Asian, and African versions. I don't remember if Paul and Pauline 2 were part of an upgrade or something you have to buy.

I'd almost forgotten about the ethnic versions of Paul and Alyson. I think some came with Poser, and some were add-ons? I've got some but not all.

But I don't think they're very well done. I seem to recall hearing they were released before they were really finished. The head morphs look okay from the front, but IMO don't look very good from the side. Expressions are good, but the textures are hit or miss. Some are better than others.

I think the G2 figures look a lot better.

I believe the only ones that ever came free with figures were the Paul and Alyson ones. In every other instance they were separate purchases that came after the main figures were released (assuming there were any). In that regard, I think the way LF and LH are done now aren't different; vendors are releasing purchasable ethnic packages (skin and morph) and the market decides how many it can bear. 

That might be the case now; Rosity, like DAZ, makes their money off content.

But I think traditionally, at least some of Poser's market has been the corporate customers who don't buy a lot of add-ons. At least not here. When I've seen Poser "in the wild," it's been for things like industrial training videos, crime scene recreations, etc. The ones who want to make Jessi's boobs smaller instead of bigger, so they aren't "distracting." If they buy stuff, it's hard hats and safety vests, not swords or brass bikinis.

Maybe Rosity is giving up on that market. But if not...diversity "out of the box" probably matters. The world has changed. Now, if you're doing a safety video or other training...you can't make everyone white. The training presentations at my office (some of which use Poser) are careful to use diverse models. Not just race and gender, but gay and nonbinary, young and old, fat and thin, people in wheelchairs, etc.

Yep, I understand the issue. The problem, however is that where Poser seems to be going is *less* of that and more of the boob showing variety. The 'safety video' aspect is almost gone if you look at what it comes with and what can be purchased; has been that for the past few releases. Diversity out of the box would be lovely, but unless some drastic changes to how the software is used bear out by numbers (to which we have no access)... So speaking up here may be actually very useful.

I dunno. I guess the armor is a departure, but most of the clothing meant for Alyson and Paul is normal clothing. Not the type that sells here in the RMP. There is underwear, but it's not particularly sexy underwear. And you need underwear for those forensic videos. Seems like a lot of people die naked, or end up that way, but they won't show the victim nude in the videos, so they put underwear on them.

E-Frontier seemed to want to take the DAZ route, with Winter Queen Jessi, but it didn't last long.

I don't think ethnicity has ever been done well in Poser, at least "out of the box."

The closest were the G2 figures, but those had to be purchased separately. (Though they were cheap or free for Passport Club members.)

V1/2 and M1/2 had a "tone" package with MAT files that would change the skintones of the figure, but that resulted in palms and soles also ending up dark. Not very realistic.

La Femme has ethnic characters you can purchase separately, and Dawn 2 will be the same. (The ethnic characters for Dawn 2 that Cath is working on look amazing.)

Where is this ethnic characters for La Femme?

Look up anything made by Afrodite-Ohki. Tempesta 3D also did a few of them. Let em know if you have trouble and I'll try to add direct links.

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/?ViewProduct=152086

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/?ViewProduct=137336

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/nari-for-la-femme/152570/

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/maya-la-femme/135946/

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/neko-la-femme/135724/

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/kalene-la-femme-pro/149727/

Dream(Studios has them for both La Femme and L'Homme as well, look at their shop:
https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/vendor/Dream9Studios

Afrodite Ohki's Anuli 😊

Mayu is one of my favorites.

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/mayu-for-la-femme/140386/

Deacon is one of my favorites for L'Homme. It's somewhat idealized, but that's my taste.

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/deacon-dollz-for-lhomme/142698/

An Arab or maybe Indian character:

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/d9s-kareem-for-lhomme/150653/

Merchant resource with a darker skin for LF and LH:

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/la-femme-lhomme---master-skin-resource-4/142180/

Mayu is one of my favorites.

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/mayu-for-la-femme/140386/

Deacon is one of my favorites for L'Homme. It's somewhat idealized, but that's my taste.

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/deacon-dollz-for-lhomme/142698/

An Arab or maybe Indian character:

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/d9s-kareem-for-lhomme/150653/

I prefer somewhat idealized characters. I wish there were more of them for LF and LH. I don't to see every pore and pimple, but that seems to be the trend these days. I guess that's the point of Superfly: the realism.

I like the braided hair on the elf in this render. Anyone know what hair it is and where to get it??? I have to wait until Dawn comes out to see what she offers, but  LaFemme may take the lead so far.

Hello? Paul and Pauline, the official figures of Poser 11 (to whom La Femme was a late addition), both have ethnic variants out of the box.

Also, PE, a Poser figure,  comes with several ethnic characters built in. 

I like the braided hair on the elf in this render. Anyone know what hair it is and where to get it??? I have to wait until Dawn comes out to see what she offers, but  LaFemme may take the lead so far.

Or Ony Braids by Aeon Soul. No longer available.

Or Ony Braids by Aeon Soul. No longer available.

hborre posted at 3:21 PM Fri, 28 January 2022 - #4433923

The reason for its demise is the restriction against third-party development.  Only legacy and Content Paradise Generation 2 models were given the capacity to utilize that feature.  None of the DAZ models nor independent creators had those privileges, it was all proprietary, models exclusively marketed for Poser.  Believe me, if DAZ were allowed to contribute in that regard the Face Room would still be a viable feature.  But, seeing that the feature was squandered on models that didn't really meet user's expectations and vendor support, it's no wonder it was deprecated from the software.  It's a shame.  I do agree that the variation of skin color choices is rather thin in many artists, vendors, and users' palettes which seems to be contradictory to their outcry for more diversity yet lacking in the creativity of producing products for a broader market.  I would welcome the proliferation of greater character diversity but I don't expect that to happen any time soon.

The ethnic versions of Alyson/Ryan, and Paul/Pauline were all included in Poser. For Paul/Pauline2 it was added after initial release when they did a revamp of the figures, and packaged with one of the software updates.

Poser is capable of using masking layers in the material room, so you can use it to adjust skin tones to your liking and still keep the differences for hands and feet. You'd just need to create the masks for those parts in an image editor.

Coming soon for La Femme :)

Wooow 😍😍

Coming soon for La Femme :)

Very nice Kalypso!!  Are these 2 girls your products, or have you stopped creating products now that you're more a moderator?

These are RPublishing products in partnership with Deecey.  I'm just doing the product images.  It's a whole series along with the 4 already in the store:  Joss, Catou, Tauriel and Kath.   There are more to come with various ethnicity morphs/textures although none are supposed to be representative of any one specific ethnic group but rather individuals.   You can even combine morphs and textures among them for even more variety!

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/joss-for-la-femme/151820/

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/catou-for-la-femme/151807/

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/tauriel-for-lafemme/150313/

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/kath-for-lafemme/150310/

OH, I just recently picked up Tauriel, though haven't had much time to play with her. 

It was a whole lot of something for me to find this thread with it advanced. Thanks for the plugs, everyone! Reminder that I also have Bruno for LH: https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/bruno-for-lhomme/149964/

About the FaceRoom, what I'm told is that it demanded too much of programming resources to develop so it would be too expensive to update it for newer figures, considering how little use it got. I feel like Bondware is a smaller company and is having to prioritize.

It was a whole lot of something for me to find this thread with it advanced. Thanks for the plugs, everyone! Reminder that I also have Bruno for LH: https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/bcs/bruno-for-lhomme/149964/

About the FaceRoom, what I'm told is that it demanded too much of programming resources to develop so it would be too expensive to update it for newer figures, considering how little use it got. I feel like Bondware is a smaller company and is having to prioritize.

I actually got a little use out of it back with Roxie. I created a character (african American) named Gwen. I even sold her on Content Paradise. I could live without the morphing abilities of the Face Room, but I did like the skin tone generator.

The big failure in its development rested entirely on SmithMicro's shoulders.  From the beginning, it was the least prioritized and neglected feature of Poser.

The big failure in its development rested entirely on SmithMicro's shoulders.  From the beginning, it was the least prioritized and neglected feature of Poser.

A lot of the Poser neglect from Smith Micro I believe was from the fact that Smith Micro had too many irons in the fire. Poser was not it's priority because it was a side business. I THOUGHT that Renderosity was going to be different, and I admit that I might be seeing things through the lens of SM's years of neglect of Poser.

Is this moe of what you are looking for? I havent done the fiber brows here yet. Bit skin is totally painted, all bpr and LF's mesh is completely morphed.

Is this moe of what you are looking for? I havent done the fiber brows here yet. Bit skin is totally painted, all bpr and LF's mesh is completely morphed.

True, but i am willing to create some for poser to be included in the program, for a small price.

True, but i am willing to create some for poser to be included in the program, for a small price.

So at least I know that addressing a thread to Tim or Jen gets jack for attention from them.

If it means anything, I doubt they're having time to breathe, let alone to read the forums. Jenn hasn't replied to her Skye all week with vendor/RPublishing questions...

Why are they so busy? New Poser release? Preparing for Dawn 2?

Why are they so busy? New Poser release? Preparing for Dawn 2?

randym77 posted at 10:57 AM Sat, 19 February 2022 - #4434966

Why are they so busy? New Poser release? Preparing for Dawn 2?

Dunno. And if I knew, it would be stuff under NDA. xD

Ohki, doki, Ohki! :) Just out of curiousty, does anyone ever call you A-Oh K?

Yep, and also Ohki Dohki xD