Hi fellows, I'm currently working on some new content and I run into a problem with the add-to-library dialog. I created a conforming clothing item and wanted to store it in my library.

 In P12 a dialog was showing up asking for the name of the item, followed by asking if one like to use the original OBJ file or if Poser should create one in the library folder. This dialog is somehow gone. No matter what setting's I chose, the dialog allowed to enter a name and that's it. A new OBJ file is created and the original one gets ignored. Did someone else have that happen too? Please let me know, much appreciated!

Seems to be working as intended for me.

Are you saving a newly created item from the fitting room or did you already save it once and reload it?

If it's a new item then you won't get that dialog the first time you save it. You have to manually edit the cr2 file to point to the correct obj. Then when you load it back into Poser and resave it should give you the option to use the original or save a new one.

It is the same in P12.

@AmbientShade, that's not the way I recall the process from Poser 12.
I actually never edit a cr2 file.
I know how, you change the path in two lines of the cr2 file code to point to the OBJ in the geometries folder.
But until now, I simply saved the original OBJ inside the Geometries folder, saved the item to the library and followed the dialog to the point it asks to chose like I wrote above.
In the past, editing the cr2 file caused another problem for me, it made the saved item disapear, that's why I avoide the editing.
I will check the methode you told me and come back to you later.
Thanks so far.

I've been using the same method for over 10 years and I haven't noticed any differences in P13.

Poser doesn't have a reference to the obj you prefer to use at its initial save to the library after the figure cr2 is generated so it won't know that there is an alternate version until you tell it that there is.

I feel like this could be solved rather simply by the devs and have an option to select the correct obj from a file browser dialog on save (which would save content creators the hassle of having to manually edit the cr2), but so far that hasn't happened.

If the item disappears when you change the figure res lines then its almost always that one or both lines weren't changed correctly or that the obj file you're pointing to is not grouped correctly. I always have multiple versions of an obj and sometimes get them mixed up.

Poser File Editor is an essential tool for a content artist, imo. It will change your geometry for you in 2 seconds and does a ton of other things and fixes that can be a hassle and massive time sink if you have to do them manually.

@AmbientShade, I really think the dev should try to implement a methode like you mentioned.
I'm also a bit confused about grouping the obj files.
As far as I understand this, the obj is the geometrie, the cr2 containes the information about the rigging in conjunction with other parameters, right?
The grouping is part of rigging process, correct?
Since I use the fitting room, the rigging of the source figure is transfered to goal item.
Do you groupe your obj files inside Blender or whatever 3D-Program you use?
Didn't cause it a conflict when you use this files in Poser, in the fitting room for instance?
I really think ,there is a need for an extensive tutorial on this topic.
From what I have found here and on YT, it's snippits, or the tutorials are outdated.
One has to connect the dots for themself and that is leaving to much room for errors.
This is maybe the reason why I obviously clinge to a false workflow.
Since I had the plan to become a vendor, to clean up this mess should be a priority.

Yes the OBJ is the model file that contains all the groups that are needed.

When you use the fitting room Poser creates a duplicate version of the original geometry file and projects all the weight maps and group info into it based on the grouping of the figure that you're fitting the clothing to. But it's usually always better to create your own groups because you have more control over where they are and you can keep the model welded. The model that comes from the fitting room will not be welded and is essentially just a place holder. You can take it into a modeling app and reweld it but that's a pain, so the easiest method is to create your own groups and leave that option unchecked in the fitting room.

You can create groups directly inside Poser with the grouping tool or you can create them in blender or any other modeling app that is capable of creating geometry groups.

The most important point of groups is that the internal names must match the bone names in the rig exactly in order for Poser to pair the geometry with the correct bone. If the names aren't exact then you will get missing geometry in place of whatever body part is supposed to be there. The internal name is not always the same as the display name of a body part. So for a common example Left Shoulder is the display name and lShldr would be the internal name that matches the bone name. And if you want to make sure symmetry is possible in a model's posing and rigging then the part names always need to start with an l for the left side and an r for the right side.

Look at the properties tab of each of the body parts on the figure you're creating clothing for and at the very top you'll see Internal name. That is what the group name needs to be in the clothing.

I agree on the tutorials. I've been thinking about doing one myself but haven't had the time yet.

At the end you will always have to edit the Cr2 script manually if you want to be a good creator, it is essential to understand how they work and how to alter them manually. The Obj is saved into the same folder where you save your new Figure , the moment you jump into the setup room a new Obj will be created on save there is no way around this, at the end the Obj belongs into the Geometry folder, and that is when you will need to fix the path in the Cr2 manually or have an app that does it for you. At the end you will be more secure with the manual alternative depending where you save your new created stuff as apps can be mean and if you hit the wrong button it can influence all your stuff in a runtime.

Adding or changing Path or name of an obj in the Cr2 script is the least a creator should be capable of doing ..... Helpful tool can be the Runtime Repair from Ralf Sessler but still Notepad++ is your best friend when it comes to Figure creation for Poser. Just imagine you need to change a internal material name or a group name Notepad does that job for you in seconds, even replacing and fix a path or a name for your Obj. as Sample ; Making a smart Prop or smart figure well again you will need to assign it manually into the script changing the line "parent UNIVERSE" into  "smartparent 1:??" Loads of little tricks that make your Figure great and mostly the fastest way is to use the Notepad ++ for sure, it will save you hours of hard work on the figure it self.

Thanks so much for the advices.

I now have some of the answers, but also many further questions, if I may?

1. What is the basic bone structure compost of? For figures the hip bone seems to be the base bone. 

2. If I pre-groupe a mesh, how do I make sure that the conforming work properly? I thought, conforming depends on how similar the bone structures of both figures are, including weight mapping. 

3. Can a  conforming figure have additional bones for body parts who are not present in the original figure? I think of a wing suit, who have a basic bone structure like the target figure and additional bones for the wing flaps. Another example would be a set of tentacles attached to a external spine structure like the one from Doc Octopus from the spiderman movies.

4. Is there a guide or tutorial of the inner logic of Poser files and how to manipulate them in certain cases?

5. I read about backed in muscles in the Geometrie file. What's that supposed to mean and how is it achieved?

6. How important or necessary is Phyton script for content creators and what are the areas in which it comes into the picture?

To avoid this thread to go out of topic, here is my email address:

site email me for it

If I receive some useful information, links to written tutorials or videos, I will open a separate thread dedicated to this topic.

Thank you in advance. Greetings from Germany.

Yes you can add additional groups and bones to a conforming item. A lot of rigged hair models, dresses, long coats, etc., are rigged that way.

Your model just needs to have groups that correspond to the figure's groups that it's being made for. There is no universal rigging convention in Poser. There's a loose standard that most figures adhere to but all of them have variations on that based on whatever its creator decided. The important point is that conforming items made for that figure need to match. They can have additional parts, but they still need to have the parts that line up with the figure's rigging.

Hip is the most commonly used name for a figure's root bone.

Python can be used to control and modify most everything inside Poser but it's not necessary for rigging figures.

There's no real repository for info regarding the inner workings of Poser files. There's a (very outdated) book called Secrets of Poser but it's nearly 20 years old and out of print. Last time I saw a copy for sale online it was over $200. You can find sample chapters of it in google but I've seen various bits that aren't relevant to Poser's current iteration. (Example: you don't need to edit any code in a file to create a smart prop. Just parent it to whatever you need and save it to the library as a smart prop).

A lot of info has been lost over the years due to major forums closing like rDNA being consumed by Daz, and Smith-Micro closing their forums when they sold Poser to Bondware. So the biggest source of info for everything Poser-related currently is the renderosity forum archives.

Just ask questions here in the forums, or search the archives.

Also, you might not want to post your email in the forum unless you don't mind it being picked up by bots.

ETA: One thing to note, in case you aren't clear on it, is that grouping and rigging is only for conforming items. You don't group or rig dynamic clothing meant for the cloth room - it will fall apart at the seams. There is grouping used in dynamic cloth but that controls how the cloth behaves in simulations and is completely different than conformers.

This was an very informative read, thank you AmbientShade. 

Also thanks for your concern about my email address, I'm sure one can find it in my public profile and in all the readme files of my Freestuff content. 

That's been said, I gladly admit that I have underestimate the complexity of this whole content creating endeavor. I really thought I finally had a grasp of how it works after I build several items, both dynamic and conforming clothing items. Looks like I still have to learn a few tricks.

I noticed that most of the clothing items for Daz Studio nowadays are dforce dependent, which is, I assume, the pedant of Posers cloth simulation, right? This seems to be a lot easier and as far as I can tell, the renders are looking much more natural. 

I have to think about this.

I removed your email. And no, it's not available to the public

@RedPhantom, thanks for taking care of this. I wasn't aware that this is an issue.

blackbonner posted at 3:12 PM Sat, 29 April 2023 - #4463749

This was an very informative read, thank you AmbientShade. 

Also thanks for your concern about my email address, I'm sure one can find it in my public profile and in all the readme files of my Freestuff content. 

That's been said, I gladly admit that I have underestimate the complexity of this whole content creating endeavor. I really thought I finally had a grasp of how it works after I build several items, both dynamic and conforming clothing items. Looks like I still have to learn a few tricks.

I noticed that most of the clothing items for Daz Studio nowadays are dforce dependent, which is, I assume, the pedant of Posers cloth simulation, right? This seems to be a lot easier and as far as I can tell, the renders are looking much more natural. 

I have to think about this.

Speaking of dformed clothes from Daz, I like to show an example I created:  a gen8-related dformed top exported as a simple OBJ, used in the Cloth Room after being scaled down for an Aiko3 characters (it looks so small compared to a gen8). I just had to "ask" Brielle to keep the left strap up to keep it SFW - lol

Which means that we can easily use in Poser one of those beautiful garments we can see for fhe gen family

Y-Phil, that's interesting.

Do you mind if I ask how you manage the textures transfer into Poser?

As far as I know, the materials are quite different in Daz Studio comparing to Poser.

blackbonner posted at 5:41 AM Sun, 30 April 2023 - #4463812

Y-Phil, that's interesting.

Do you mind if I ask how you manage the textures transfer into Poser?

As far as I know, the materials are quite different in Daz Studio comparing to Poser.

I've used for such a long time to rebuild the textures each time I'm using a bought products. There are some exceptions sur as RPublishing's rooms, SharaMuse3D's scenery-related items, and I'm probably forgetting quite a few.
Nowadays, I've collected and put in compound a few nodes compositions to facilitate the rebuild, largely inspired of what Ghostship2 is selling here:
a compound node with transparency in case I'm in the need.

Cloth compounds, ready to  be used either with the provided bump or another compound (inspired from Ghostship2's cloth materials, "denim-like" comes from VinceBagna) with ready-to-use normals:

Until I understand the inner workings of the materials well enough to recreate what I need (but I still have a long way to go)
And inspired by a few automatisms from Blender: a few ready-to-use couple of nodes: a "Glossy compound":

A mixclosure+transparency couple, something with often mix together:

All these a 2-clicks items from a dedicated place of my one of my runtimes

I'm explaining this because it speeds up my process when either buying an item or transferring something: I definitively doesn't need any kind of tool to transfer the textures from daz to Poser: they don't have Cycles, their material stuff doesn't interest me, only the bitmaps.
And when I'm using of bought cloth: I use one the cloth's proposed look-and-feel and I easily add my special nodes:

For Brielle's new top, I've used something inspired by... Caisson? (not sure), presented in another thread: a nodes composition for the leaves, with a form of luminous transparency., also a ready-to-be-used compound

Wow! This is crazy. I have to try it for myself. I mean, I use Poser and Daz Studio since forever, but if I sit in front of my PC, some solutions never came to my mind. That's why I value the interaction in forums like this here on Rendo very highly. Thanks for sharing your inside.

blackbonner posted at 8:43 AM Sun, 30 April 2023 - #4463819

Wow! This is crazy. I have to try it for myself. I mean, I use Poser and Daz Studio since forever, but if I sit in front of my PC, some solutions never came to my mind. That's why I value the interaction in forums like this here on Rendo very highly. Thanks for sharing your inside.

In  fact...

all this has been inspired by... my legendary laziness and... by the fact that if I do love spaghetti, I hate them in the Material room 

In theory, if someone knew Python, could they set some of these up to be used with Ezskin? I seem to remember a few non-skin presets for the Python 2.0 version of Ezskin.

From what I remember, there is something that allows to write one's own plugin for EZSkin