I know I had a topic on Poser 11 to Poser 13, but I can't seem to find it.  Is it still true that I have to upgrade to 12 then upgrade to 13?  Why?  Why do I need to get Poser 12 to get Poser 13?

Also what are good specs for a 3D desktop that uses Poser 11/Poser 13?

I recently upgraded a very old desktop system. It was an I7 860 16 gig of single rank udimmDDR3, with an rtx2060. All I did was a basic motherboard swap using the same Win 10 installation the upgraded to Win 11 afterwards. I bought a I5 13600k processor, an ASUS Prime B660 Plus D4 mobo, 64 gig of good ddr4, a case, and a few M.2 drives. Poser was not the primary reason I upgraded, but it was one of them.

Poser 13 really only needs an RTX gpu with enough memory to render the scenes you do. Optix rendering has come a long way and is faster than CUDA in P11. The rest of the system doesn't really matter if you render with Cuda or Optix, all the rendering is done on the gpu. I am getting away with a 2060 GPU with 6 gig most of the time, but not with every scene. Some have to be rendered on the cpu because they wont fit on the gpu. I plan on getting a 4060ti with 16 gig whenever it comes out. It will be a very inexpensive card for what it is, the amount of memory it has, and the power savings over the 2060. 

No one can really give a definitive answer to what is best for you without knowing more of what you do on your computer outside of Poser. If your computer does everything you need it to now, do you even need a new one? I play games on mine and some of the newer titles just would not work on a 1st gen I7, some software I use a lot went the same route, (no avx extensions in the ancient I7 860 cpu, programs wont run if that is required) so I upgraded the mother board to a fairly inexpensive 13th gen system. 

If you prefer to render in Firefly and don't need the gpu to render, do you even need a faster processor or more cpu cores? You didn't mention what cpu/system you have now.

As far as why you have to upgrade from the previous version. That is up to the company that owns the software to decide, and I am not really sure how that works with Poser. I have every version they made except for the first that was mac only, so I never ran into that.....

I didn't upgrade my Poser system for nearly 15 years, other than upgrading gpu's. Maybe that is all you need to do, maybe not. A 2000 series RTX is a bottle neck on an old I7, and it showed in gaming. A 4000 series would be a huge bottleneck on any system with PciE 2...... So I upgraded, basically because technology and program's left my ancient I7 in the dust....

Any CPU/GPU combination from the past half a dozen years will be fine.  I am running a Ryzen 7 2700/RTX 3060 (12gb) system right now.

One thing to remember is that Opitx will use as many GPUs as you can throw at it. 12Gb RTX 3060s are pretty cheap, both new and used.

My current gameplan is a CPU/MB replacement next month - I picked up a Ryzen 7 5700x and next month I'll pick up an X470 motherboard, and a 2nd RTX 3060.

Do you have to upgrade from 11 to 12 then to 13, No.  Since there is no upgrade path from 11 to 13 it will cost $249.95 (just looked at store price).  If you upgrade from 11 to 12 it is $99.95 and from 12 to 13 is also $99.95.  Doing the 2 upgrades will save you $50.  Plus you also have access to version 12 if for some reason you find it helpful

The world of upgrades is certainly changing and the days of complete new computer seem to have become questionable some time ago, unless of course your present PC has died and is uneconomic to repair.  I was recently surprised to find just how powerful mini PC are becoming and they are improving all the time.  The change to GPU rendering threw all the cards in the air and changed upgrade paths for good.  The good news it that there are so many solutions there should be an answer for every one and, in comparison to the old days, many solutions can be relatively cheap.

ssgbryan publicado a las 2:51 p. m. lunes 10 de julio de 2023 - #4469743

One thing to remember is that Opitx will use as many GPUs as you can throw at it

Hello.

Do you mean that if I plug two cards into my motherboard, Optix will use both, doubling the performance?

Optix can use multiple gpus. Cycles may be limited to 4, but I am not 100% sure about that since I don't have a system with that many slots or pcie lanes. You won't get 2x performance from each gpu you add. You will get about 1.8 max with the exact same type of gpu. Less if you mix in a slower one. Any way you do it, you will see decreased render times, but never twice as fast from adding another card. Also keep in mind that many processors don't have enough Pcie lanes to run the cards at 16x when there is more than one of them. You will need a really good power supply as well. 

Thank David.

One thing that occurs to me is:

Motherboard + Intel 9900K + 2 Nvidia 3080TI offers more performance than an I9 13900KF + 1 Nvidia 4090?

I mean in render tasks only. The theme of video games is not my priority

Speed comparisons between generations requires people to actually have the cards to test. Puget Systems has already done benchmarks with the 4090 and Blender, so that helps for those that don't have 5+ grand to waste, just to find out. The 4090 is over just over twice as fast as a the flagship 3rd gen 3090 ti. So no, two 3080 ti's would never be twice as fast. 

jngzsz posted at 2:17 AM Wed, 12 July 2023 - #4469871

One thing that occurs to me is:

Motherboard + Intel 9900K + 2 Nvidia 3080TI offers more performance than an I9 13900KF + 1 Nvidia 4090?

I mean in render tasks only. The theme of video games is not my priority

Hi there

RTX 4090 will be faster there than dual RTX 3080Ti when comes to rendering,I have tested dual RTX3090 vs single RTX4090 and RTX4090 will win hands down,where dual RTX3090 will and is advantageous is in pooling memory(for dual RTX3090 you will have 48GB of VRAM) but for that you will need to have NvLink and renderer must support it

Plus main reason why I would go with single GPU over dual GPUs setups are electricity bills here in UK or in EU,dual RTX3090 in normal system will pull easily 900W just for GPUs and newer RTX4xxx are much more efficient 

And as @shrdavid said,dual GPU won't be as twice as fast,they don't scale as power,trust me I have run all the time dual or triple GPUs setups and they don't scale as you think

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

I bought a 4070ti for my new system. I was going to get a 16gb 4060ti card, but decided that was not a good option because it isn't for rendering at all. It is a far slower card than the 4070ti, with little price difference compared to the speed gained by the 4070ti. There is a 66 to 70% gain for not much more money.... That is a significant and drastic difference in speed.

My 4070ti has not drawn more than about 260-275 watts (I can monitor draw changes thru my UPS) Rendering doesn't always max it out power wise either, but does max it out compute wise. I think max draw for my GPU is a bit over 290 watts, but it doesn't pull that rendering... My 4070ti runs slightly overclock by default, but no where near as fast as it is capable of.... I see no reason to push it and risk hurting it either... The entire system already scores extremely well in benchmarks.... 

Considering the speed difference between a 4070ti and a 3090ti, there is no reason to even have a 3000 series card that is substantially slower, let alone 2 of them that might not be as fast as a single 4070ti....

A base non overclocked 4070ti is ~40% faster than the best 3090ti card going when using Optix..... Overclocked 4070ti's are even faster, and draw basically half the wattage of a single 3090ti. 3000 series cards can also draw huge power spikes as well, which has caused more than a few people to need way bigger power supplies than you might first think is needed........ As in 1000+ watt supplies with a single gpu.... Two 3090ti's could require 1400 to 1600watts, easily.... That just depends on how much they pull when they spike....

I am running 2 rtx cards (a 2060 and a 4070ti) on a 13th gen system that is loaded out, with a 750 watt power supply.... Yes, a single 750 watt supply, and it works fine.... Do not try that with any high end 3000 series card in the system, it wont work because the spikes that a 3000 gpu draws (sometimes 600+ watts) will shut down the power supply and crash the system.....

You can buy a brand spanking new 4070ti, for far less than a used 3090ti, or a 3080ti for that matter.... Which is more than a bit odd.....

The worst day, power draw wise, with my new system with 2 RTX cards has been 6.1kw.... And depending on where you live, that could get very expensive.... I did lots of renders that day, and some gaming, and some compiling, which is cpu and gpu power intensive...... My system runs 24/7, and averages just under 0.40 cents of juice a day..... Some days far more, some days far less because it sits idle. Turning it off when not in use would save some money, but my electricity is cheap here.... That is not, and wont be the case in many places in the world, where electricity is crazy expensive....

You don't need an I9 to do gpu renders. Any current I3 or I5 will work fine (or low end Ryzen if your prefer AMD). You don't need a 4090 either, because a 4070ti makes a 3090ti look slow, because it is slow compared to any 4070ti....

You don't even need fast DDR 5 ram in the system, because the gpu doesn't use that ram either..........

Build a system that will do the job and not make you go broke in doing so. And more importantly, not spin the meter off the wall in the future.....

I built a 13th gen 13600k I5 system with 64 gig of fairly fast DDR4 memory turned back to 3200 for lower latency settings, with a brand new 4070ti...

For less than the price of a single 3090ti.............. And it renders 40%+ times faster than a 3090ti system ever would.....

You don't need an F1 car to drive to work.... But you would need an F1 car, if you want to run in, and race F1.......

If you are going F1 racing, you already have the budget money and don't really care what expenses are anyway.... F1 controls what you can spend and where anyway....

You do have a choice when rendering and building a system even thou you probably don't have an F1 budget to pay for it, or to keep the lights on.....

shvrdavid posted at 7:18 PM Fri, 18 August 2023 - #4472902

I bought a 4070ti for my new system. I was going to get a 16gb 4060ti card, but decided that was not a good option because it isn't for rendering at all. It is a far slower card than the 4070ti, with little price difference compared to the speed gained by the 4070ti. There is a 66 to 70% gain for not much more money.... That is a significant and drastic difference in speed.

My 4070ti has not drawn more than about 260-275 watts (I can monitor draw changes thru my UPS) Rendering doesn't always max it out power wise either, but does max it out compute wise. I think max draw for my GPU is a bit over 290 watts, but it doesn't pull that rendering... My 4070ti runs slightly overclock by default, but no where near as fast as it is capable of.... I see no reason to push it and risk hurting it either... The entire system already scores extremely well in benchmarks.... 

Considering the speed difference between a 4070ti and a 3090ti, there is no reason to even have a 3000 series card that is substantially slower, let alone 2 of them that might not be as fast as a single 4070ti....

A base non overclocked 4070ti is ~40% faster than the best 3090ti card going when using Optix..... Overclocked 4070ti's are even faster, and draw basically half the wattage of a single 3090ti. 3000 series cards can also draw huge power spikes as well, which has caused more than a few people to need way bigger power supplies than you might first think is needed........ As in 1000+ watt supplies with a single gpu.... Two 3090ti's could require 1400 to 1600watts, easily.... That just depends on how much they pull when they spike....

I am running 2 rtx cards (a 2060 and a 4070ti) on a 13th gen system that is loaded out, with a 750 watt power supply.... Yes, a single 750 watt supply, and it works fine.... Do not try that with any high end 3000 series card in the system, it wont work because the spikes that a 3000 gpu draws (sometimes 600+ watts) will shut down the power supply and crash the system.....

You can buy a brand spanking new 4070ti, for far less than a used 3090ti, or a 3080ti for that matter.... Which is more than a bit odd.....

The worst day, power draw wise, with my new system with 2 RTX cards has been 6.1kw.... And depending on where you live, that could get very expensive.... I did lots of renders that day, and some gaming, and some compiling, which is cpu and gpu power intensive...... My system runs 24/7, and averages just under 0.40 cents of juice a day..... Some days far more, some days far less because it sits idle. Turning it off when not in use would save some money, but my electricity is cheap here.... That is not, and wont be the case in many places in the world, where electricity is crazy expensive....

You don't need an I9 to do gpu renders. Any current I3 or I5 will work fine (or low end Ryzen if your prefer AMD). You don't need a 4090 either, because a 4070ti makes a 3090ti look slow, because it is slow compared to any 4070ti....

You don't even need fast DDR 5 ram in the system, because the gpu doesn't use that ram either..........

Build a system that will do the job and not make you go broke in doing so. And more importantly, not spin the meter off the wall in the future.....

I built a 13th gen 13600k I5 system with 64 gig of fairly fast DDR4 memory turned back to 3200 for lower latency settings, with a brand new 4070ti...

For less than the price of a single 3090ti.............. And it renders 40%+ times faster than a 3090ti system ever would.....

You don't need an F1 car to drive to work.... But you would need an F1 car, if you want to run in, and race F1.......

If you are going F1 racing, you already have the budget money and don't really care what expenses are anyway.... F1 controls what you can spend and where anyway....

You do have a choice when rendering and building a system even thou you probably don't have an F1 budget to pay for it, or to keep the lights on.....

Thank you for your excellent description. I've just replaced my old rtx2080ti by an Asus TUF Gaming 4070 OC edition. Not the fastest but it's compatible with my old system, with its PCIe 3.0 and its 650W PSU. 
Now, for a reasonable price I've almost twice the computing power, and the 4070 heats up 10% less than 2080ti - yay. That gives me enough time to spare for a new assembly, up to the moment when Win10 won't be supported anymore.