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Subject: Superfly is driving me crazy - difference in render and Queue or background


midinick ( ) posted Sun, 02 June 2024 at 1:51 PM · edited Tue, 31 December 2024 at 7:07 PM

Hi :D


I have a strange problem... I bought this super cute materials, I know they were created for older Poser versions. This is ok, I knew this at the moment I lost my heart on them :)


If I render with Render Knight in background or if I render in Queue the material does not look like if I render it directly.

Same material, same render settings ...


left: rendered direct

right: renderes with Render Knight in Background or in Queue (CPU, because my GPU is not supported)

 I tried every single setting in the material room but it will not render like the left side if I choose background render or Queue.

Does anybody have a explaination for this?

x7gVYQT4o3rQEkSVCY4vYy99MmJof5YsB2S6gJDw.jpg

qlwIIim15UAeVQLkKS56mVItgOVsLgBEtOl2dMn4.jpg


Just in case someone is wondering how it would look in Firefly :)

BxPpjJwFjVfJgOQSaYSRcl6ycNCEKiELO5C6V96l.jpg


My BF installed Queue on his network so I can render with Optix on his machine ... same image... the reflection only looks better to me if I render direct... Queue with CPU or Optix make no difference in the outcome.


Maybe someone have an idea? :D


hborre ( ) posted Sun, 02 June 2024 at 3:29 PM

The Material Room node arrangement is not optimal for Superfly and needs to be totally reworked.  Either way, use the PhysicalSurface node or Cycles as your root node.


midinick ( ) posted Sun, 02 June 2024 at 3:33 PM

Thank you :) I thought it would be the answer XD I will try to make a new arrangement. :)


hborre ( ) posted Sun, 02 June 2024 at 4:01 PM · edited Sun, 02 June 2024 at 4:01 PM

All the circled nodes below are problem spots.

rqHbJEuoYEyBUxNoMW0NHKRvbEehjL7tQSMjS6N4.png

Reflection_Color and Reflection_Value connectors are typically reserved for metallic surfaces and are common in Firefly, but do not render well in Superfly.  The Sphere Map node is a reflection cheat in earlier versions of Poser, it is unnecessary and needs to be removed.  

Reflection_Lite_Multi check box should be unchecked.  Failure to uncheck it is a very common mistake made by many content creators.  This is also associated with very reflective metallic surfaces.  

I notice that the Image map is connected to both the Diffuse_Value and a Blender Node associated with the Bump Channel.  As a rule, maps connected to Specular, Bump, Displacement, and Transparency connectors should be set to a Gamma value of 1.  In this case, if the Image map has a default Gamma value of 2.2 (Render Setting), you will get bizarre results in those mentioned channels.  It is best to connect that map through a Gamma node set to a value of 1.


hborre ( ) posted Sun, 02 June 2024 at 6:50 PM · edited Sun, 02 June 2024 at 6:50 PM

After taking a closer look at node arrangements above, my conclusion is that the shader, as presented, is inadequate for Superfly.  The Weave node is intended to give a false pattern reflection to the dress material, which is, in my opinion, impossible to duplicate in Superfly.  What you desire is an iridescent, reflective look to the dress that reacts realistically to its environment.  In the rendered image below, I have a side-by-side comparison of 2 dresses, the left with the shaders posted above and the right with my own Cycles shaders.  I used an HDRI background and one infinite light set to 50% intensity.

zFWFV2uv4Mblizep6WkbgtJSF8EqELZMNL7CeRbs.png

I would need to tinker some more with the shaders but if you find this works for you, I can post the material nodes.  The shader is Superfly only, based on Cycles, and procedurally created.  However, additional work is needed to embed patterns and designs.


midinick ( ) posted Mon, 03 June 2024 at 2:33 AM

Thank you very much for your help. I think I got what you wanted to explain. Because Superfly renders "real" raytracing, the false weave reflection is making some other results. you are totally right about gamma setting, the checkmark is on settings and not on the other one where I can set 1.

I have to work now, but I started to tinker a new material. actually I wanted to make a glitter material based on a blender tutorial but it didn't came out as I wished.. inadvertently I made a discovery with this cycles shader and it looked nearly like the iridescent material I was looking for 😅 So I will post it after work, to show you the result. It renders in all variations of superfly.. 

So I don't have glitter yet... but now I have a good iridescent base 😅


hborre ( ) posted Mon, 03 June 2024 at 8:39 AM

Looking forward to seeing it.


midinick ( ) posted Mon, 03 June 2024 at 12:04 PM · edited Mon, 03 June 2024 at 12:04 PM

ok, here I am ... I renderes wdirectly (left) and with Render Knight (right) both settings were the same.

Even if it does not glitter .. I like the outcome and I think this is the solution for my latest problem :)

Pho537q8OGH9nDMD9txePTf3edQpy5G9uwskWlVF.jpg

5Efgf9pwMIAPVYzpoK1koVxgIXHXOkx94RyUrbMe.jpg



Do you have a suggestion how to make glitter for Superfly too? I tried a tutorial for blender but failed and landed accidantly on the material I posted now.

I am looking for a glitter like in this older item.. Firefly works fine, but Superfly will not render the particles. (this material was my starting point to modify before I landed on this material :D )

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/84128/essentials-vol-3-sheers


DeeceyArt ( ) posted Mon, 03 June 2024 at 12:52 PM

You'll get better results with Superfly if you use the Physical Surface node, or the Cycles Root node with the Principled BSDF shader (Blender also has this Principled BSDF shader as well).

SuperFly also works better with metallic and roughness texture maps, whereas FireFly works better with specular and gloss maps.

To create glitter for SuperFly, you can add a Metallic map that has a black background and white noisy specs. Any area that is white in the metallic map will be ... well ... metal, and which will give it the shininess. Set the Roughness value to zero (or black). As for the color of the glitter, you can use the Specular input of the physical surface node to control the color of the glitter.


hborre ( ) posted Mon, 03 June 2024 at 1:17 PM

It looks pretty good.  My only concern is that the shader is emitting quite a lot of light.  You have an active Ambient channel which can be eliminated; it doesn't contribute to the overall effect.  However, you are combining Diffuse and Alternate_Diffuse channels which will make the dress glow.  Under average lighting, you might not see any problems, but darken the scene and the dress will 'light up'.  The Soecular_value channel is very high, 5000%!  This is unusual, but this hack will have to do in the meantime.


midinick ( ) posted Mon, 03 June 2024 at 2:06 PM · edited Mon, 03 June 2024 at 2:06 PM

Ok I tried again... with a Cycles Surface, I think you are right and maybe it is better for Superfly.

I found another tutorial for a Glitter in Blender ... I tried and I think I got something for Glitter now.

I wanted a multicolor glitter but color ramp did not came out as I wished XD ...

Tutorial: https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/99251/cycles-material-a-kind-of-glitter

74MH6nGfLoWtl6wjGqjw5CQQ8iRH5ep6YpzhwAup.jpg

ksPxaN60gFcGwrAOWUWGufMpBtVO4PRRQNwfJng8.JPG


actually I try to get how to mix more than 2 colors... I am really not this good in understanding Posers material room.. even if I set to my language (german) some words make no sense to me.


My 2nd try to make more than 1 glittercolor.. well ... this catched me XD I like it :D


mPAZwO3KltliERmDopYfolB6c0DfIKYz0P8ayqjD.jpg

MvR9iddBGkBhxbENenFU06PqpT1qwOqdPKxndMoU.JPG


hborre ( ) posted Mon, 03 June 2024 at 2:56 PM

A couple of suggestions: connect your Anisotropic rotations with the Voronoi Position channel.  Whenever you use the Color Mix node, generally mix your colors, unless you want something unusual.  Increase the PrincipledBsdf nodes metallic and sheen values for a more reflective appearance.  Also, vary the scale on the Voronoi Texture node to add more detail to the dress.  Change your background to an HDRI and render; pay close attention to how the material reflects PBR lighting as opposed to the default Poser lights.


Rhia474 ( ) posted Mon, 03 June 2024 at 5:52 PM

I'd like to se this under Superfly lights because what I render with those material settings above resembles nothing like I see on these pictures--it's completely flat., no glitter at all (using HDRI). 


hborre ( ) posted Mon, 03 June 2024 at 7:36 PM

Here is a Superfly render with a full HDRI background, no other lighting.  To get a pronounced glitter effect, the scale on the Voronoi Texture node was reduced and the metallic value on the PrincipledBdsf node to 1.  You really want a metallic look, otherwise, the render will look flat.

zmnwiMRVPkyLolgFaeDxtxq2qOz58gobJRaI4CRs.png


midinick ( ) posted Tue, 04 June 2024 at 2:22 AM

Oh wow thank you for your advice. I will try after work today 😊

And yes I was using the Poser starting light while I was testing the settings 😅


midinick ( ) posted Tue, 04 June 2024 at 2:47 PM

I am trying... but I do not get any result like yours .. hm ... I have a really nice glitter with the Superfly Lights included in Poser 13... if I use the lightning from background, it will look flat like Rhia474 said.

I left the size of the flakes, I actually like them and they are nice with metallic :D

left: only light trough background

right: only superfly light "Paramount"

ykPBF3BCmPrBApZxDcWTJuEeBfBUgnnZldbhAdTE.jpg


I think for a solid glitter I found a good solution for me ... now I am thinking about a sheer glitter for clothing like in Fabianas "Essentials Vol 3 Sheers"


midinick ( ) posted Tue, 04 June 2024 at 2:59 PM · edited Tue, 04 June 2024 at 2:59 PM

ok ... I think I found a solution.. this was faster than I thought. The solution for a sheer glitter trough fabrics I could use a 2nd layer for material.. in this example I used the glitter above and just added a 2nd layer with a simple color and a 0,5 transparency with fall off ... I like it :D I think I can work with this.

left: bachground light

right: Superfly Paramount


PCiwKNSvgbRKjce2Il0t7C1ZSSjd4TJ5LXrZWQHQ.jpg


hborre ( ) posted Tue, 04 June 2024 at 3:26 PM

The right-side render looks nice.  Whenever I render lighting using the Superfly engine, I convert it to blackbody lights by attaching the Blackbody node to the Color channel of the Light node. Adjusting the temperature of the Blackbody node changes the color of the light emitted by the light source.  The lower the temperature value, the warmer the color of the emission.  The higher the temperature value, the cooler the color that is emitted.


hborre ( ) posted Tue, 04 June 2024 at 3:37 PM · edited Tue, 04 June 2024 at 3:37 PM

Below, I rendered Poser's Superfly Paramount light set around LaFemme and a studio backdrop.  I made no modification to the lights nor the scene.  Despite the fact that this is labeled as a Superfly Light set, it is a typical Studio light set up.

                                            nTIqLnLF3ZdmEr6klkDq01q88NeoHq5YzC39kgWR.png


hborre ( ) posted Tue, 04 June 2024 at 3:44 PM

This next render is exaggerated just for demonstrations.  I attached a Blackbody node to all the lights in the set and set the temperature value to 3000 degrees Kelvin.  It is a warm-colored light, similar to a late-afternoon sunset.  This is considered real-world lighting without tinting the color of the chip.  

                                                                  gtViuczyuytyFevwTElx8BPU2v21eqfkQoaFkbI8.png


hborre ( ) posted Tue, 04 June 2024 at 3:51 PM · edited Tue, 04 June 2024 at 3:51 PM

By increasing the temperature value of the Blackbody node to 10,000-degree Kelvin, I can simulate a cloudless blue sky or shade on a sunny day.

                                                                                    gWSUeB9Dl8CyYn2kUekjBFRUL4HX9SbdJIXYy6NR.png



hborre ( ) posted Tue, 04 June 2024 at 3:54 PM

Below, a lighting combination.

                                              jAbcC9yHNQ8v2xgKdS5pFSPT0TjzdhORHKeqNEfk.png


midinick ( ) posted Wed, 05 June 2024 at 11:00 AM

Thank you very much for this, I will test the Glitter with your light-settings. :)

Today and tomorrow I have no chance to open Poser, so I will test in on the weekend or monday :D

The 4th image you posted is very nice :)


midinick ( ) posted Wed, 12 June 2024 at 1:30 PM

I am sorry for my late reply, had some appointments this week. I did not try with glitter, but I tried with the light and it is really cool... but I find it difficult to wait until render to see how it looks XD


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