Each was rendered with the same lighting, the same pose, the same camera settings. No post-work was done, save to add text and put them together.

By viewing all of them, you can see that each has their strengths and weaknesses... but I'll leave that debate up to the rest of you

(BTW, those of you who have Musclebound Michael... if he doesn't look like the above pic... hang in there, I've sent DAZ the product update and they should be posting it shortly... rather, they should have posted it already, but there must be some kind of hold up.)

Thanks Drax. A very useful comparison.

Aurelio
AZL Studios

That's useful, thanks Drax. And yes, they all do have strengths and weaknesses don't they? I just have to play mad doctor and build me a Frankenstein! Lets see, I'll take these pecs, those thighs, that waist...now where's that MorphMaster program again? :)

One of the great strengths of Mike 2, in my opinion, is that the issue of the flying-squirrel lat muscles in Mike 1 (and all permutations thereof)-- when his arms are raised over his head--has finally been addressed. The variety of morphs and morph fixes built right into the character allow him, in that pose, to finally look like a human being.

Actually, Mark, if you test out a few figures and poses, you will find that this is incorrect. However, due to the nature in which the muscle morphs were made for Michael 2.0, it does become less noticeable when the morphs are used. I just did a test render with Michael 2.0 and 1.0 side by side, both in the same pose, arms extended, and there is absolutely no difference in the "flying squirrel" unless you use the new muscle morphs. If I make two renders of Michael, 1.0 and 2.0, both with no Muscle morphs on them, in the same position, rendered with the same lighting, there is no difference whatsoever between the two rendered images except for the appearance of the face. The fixes in the collar area do not include one for the flying squirrel (laterals), but do slightly fix the deformation around the meeting of the Pectoral muscles with the Deltoids... ever so slightly.

BulgeSides
Muscles1
MusclesAbs
MusclesSides
Ribs
WaistMuscles
DAZ's Tone morph is used on the thighs and calves

These would all be at a setting of 1. Boris' intended look (as in this image) is acquired with the included pose (Boris A) which applies these morphs via each body part. Note that DAZ's Tone morph does not really work well with Boris's ab morphs, creating the deep black crevice in his stomach as seen in DRAX's image.

Now that I have done that, here is my opinion. If you have the money, buy them all; then you have several muscular Mikes (each different) to create group scenes. :)

Beth

Sorry about that Beth... I haven't used Boris very much, nor have I read the readme... didn't mean to misrepresent your work :( Ron

Oh, and I'm entirely agreed on your opinion... people should buy them all.

That's alright, Ron. I really did not think you misrepresented him. I just think he looks better with all his detail. And, I am sure the readme is lacking in pertinent information, including that about DAZ's Tone morph not working well with Boris' abs or visa versa. Beth

why arent any of these showing back muscles? lol, thats the most overlooked area. a well-defined back adds realism. you cant be built like that and NOT have a well-defined muscular back. come on, lets have it. turn them around. (i already know exactly what the results will be - quite shocking actually, but im keeping quiet :)

Thanks Drax. I agree - a good usefull comparison. My intent is to get all of them, and then move the morphs onto one cr2 [probably mike 2] for as versatile a set of figure & muscle sculpting morphs as I can get. I have a lot of "Male Hero/Villian" image projects I want to do over the next year or so. ;]

Why are there no clothes for any of these figures? I know the morphing clothing pack is in production for Mike 2.0, but what about the others?

Actually Drax, there's a huge difference in the results. I have tested out a few figures and poses, and the effect is not only less noticeable, it's virtually eliminated. The combination of shoulder-up fix, pectoral-up fix, pectoral-flatten, external obliques, serratus anterior and lat smaller morphs used together in the right combo, create a very realistic effect. And I'm still discovering ancillary morphs to improve the problem further.

Although, I don't own Musclebound Mike, I do own Massive Mike and Mike 1 and neither provide the morphs to fix this problem.

Having said that, I still believe that Massive Mike and Mike 1 are worthwhile investments and have their value. Mike 2 just seems to me to be the next step on his evolutionary ladder.

A more pertinent question would be...why the hell doesn't someone make a Muscular Vicki????? And I'm not talking about a toned little thang. I'm talking rippling, solid muscle like our boy up there!!! Come on, pretty please. I don't want a big breasted, thin waisted woman that might snap if I play too hard with her LOL How is Muscle Mike gonna get any action if all the girls he finds disappear into his six pack??? s

Well, Xena, now that you've posted the request, I'm sure some enterprising modeler will paste Vicky's head onto Mike 2's body Be afraid. Be very afraid...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

I was seriously considering getting massive mike
a while ago because my animated short film calls for
and exaggerated bulked up male characters
to compliment some of the ultra voluputuous
female characters that wiil be featured.
But frankly my purchase of mike 2 has made the
consideration of any other bulked up mike figures
MOOT!.
His huge mumber of new facial and body morphs truly makes him the most versatile
poser male ever!!.

Beth

Xena, I'm actually working on a Musclebound Victoria using the techniques that I developed for Musclebound Michael, though I probably won't have her available until the end of next month.

MARK, as I said, it only look correct when using his muscle morphs... your reference was particularly to the lats, which I mentioned were not at all fixed when not using the muscle morphs. If you can prove to me otherwise without using the muscle morphs for Michael 2.0 (only using the fix morphs, as you suggested), then please post your image of it here to prove me wrong.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?ViewSoftgood=6106

Notes: There is an alternate upper arm for the dress shirt that does not look quite as form fitting. Muscles can be turned off on the back of the t-shirt.

Beth

wolf, I don't think that Michael 2.0 has made the other Michael figures a moot point at all... Examples (without trying too much to toot my own horn with Musclebound)): Boris offers a muscular body suit with the purchase that includes all the morphs to fit him, as well as having the largest variety of faces out of any other Michael product on the market (way to go Beth) Massive Mike features some amazing genital morphs, as well as having broad shoulders not seen in any other figure, and probably the most anatomically correct serratus of any other Michael figure. Musclebound Michael is the ONLY muscular Michael product that comes equipped with a means for CR2 distribution and features all-new Delta Injection technology, with built-in geometry swapping dials in most body parts, allowing for some of the most versatile creation of add-ons. That, and there are several products on the way that are built exclusively for Musclebound Michael, such as SPOILERS an Abyssal Lord (New type of Demon based on the Michael geometry), a Superhero creation pack, male Bounty Hunter, and much more. (Made possible only because of the DELTA injection and Geometry-Swapping technology). As was already mentioned, each Michael has it's own strengths and weaknesses... and I'm certain that I'm not the only creator who is working on products to extend the capabilities of their Michael figures.

Nevermind, I guess I DID toot my own horn quite a bit in there..... Beth, those clothing packs look amazing... I've been running into some issues myself with the clothing, as well, most particularly the dress shirt... those damned open/close morphs make for a real pain in the arse.

**Xena, I'm actually working on a Musclebound Victoria using the techniques that I developed for Musclebound Michael, though I probably won't have her available until the end of next month. ** Drax, I love you s That's THE BEST news I could hear, especially today ... Merry Christmas and thank you :)

Just one question, Xena... if she's Muscular, how big should her tits be? (and since you're the only one who has specifically requested her that I know of, I'll make sure to add you to the beta list)

Well, Pecs morphs and Breast morphs can be separated, in that case..... Merry Christmas, Xena.

Female body builders frighten me... but if I may make a suggestion... do both. I think a lot of people who are looking for more realism will want a flatter chest... that's what happens to most women when they start building up msucle, they burn more fat, and that's essentially what the breasts are... but then you'll have those who are going to want a more comic book-ish muscled woman, who are almost always well endowed. It'd be nice to see varying degrees actually... though, please don't make them look like torpedoes... eep!

Yule blessings to you Drax...and you too Cin :)

My experience with Massive Mike and Mike 1--and I've had MASSIVE experience with both --has shown me that neither figure has the corrective morphs to fix the problem in any realistically satisfying way.

What you see here is a raw render of Mike 2, with no post work. Now obviously, post tweaking and some more experimenting (I'm just getting started with this wonderful figure) will yield even better results, but I doubt that this lat improvement can be achieved with Mike 1 and his morphed cousins.

However, I'm always open to learn...

"But frankly my purchase of mike 2 has made the consideration of any other bulked up mike figures MOOT!. " There's absolutely no such thing as too many morphs. The more different figures and styles of body/musculature morphs you have, the more versatility you have in combining morphs to sculpt just what you need. "Just one question, Xena... if she's Muscular, how big should her tits be? " I agree with what you said in 27, Drax. Keep the breast/pec morphs seperate, and then we can sculpt to taste. I'd like to see the Musclebound Vicki myself. Musclebound Mike is definately on my buy list.

Above, another version of the lat, and for that matter, the chest-fix morphs of Mike 2, whichs helps eliminate the arms-overhead problem of the Mike 1 characters.

You miss my point. Mike 2 with all of the body/muscle morphs of the others transferrerd over with MorphManager is going to be more versatile than Mike 2 alone. Just as Vicki 2 with all of the add-on and "after market" morphs [V2 OR V1 morphs] is more versatile than V2 alone. Since I've never used a character "out of the box" without tweaking and customizing it to my needs, I find the "ultimate figure" quest faintly ridiculuous. There's a reason and a case to be made for having and using everything that you can get. Just as I wouldn't limit myself to just Painter or just Photoshop because that'd cut out half of my tool box.

The above is an example of Musclebound Michael 1.2 (the aforementioned update that I've sent to DAZ). As you can see, the laterals look more natural because of the muscle morphs, just as they do in Michael 2.0 when the muscle morphs are used. Try that same pose with Michael 2.0 without muscle morphs. (also noted above), and it will look horrible in comparison.

Hi cherokee69, I added the morphs on Boris to the clothing. The clothing in the image will be available for Boris very soon. Beth

I personally think Musclebound Mike's arms look best in the arm up image by DraX. I'm sure Boris would look similar to the default Mike in this position. :( However, y'all have inspired me to see what I can do with Boris. I did notice that bending at the shoulder as opposed to bending at the collar alleviates the problem some. Beth

Uh, Ironbear, Mike 2 has over 500 morphs already (about 80 more than Vicky). If you add in all the morphs from Musclebound Mike, Massive Mike, and Boris, the CR2 will undergo spontaneous gravitational collapse and form its own black hole.

That could be vastly entertaining. ;] If he does, I'll post renders of the phenomenon. snicker

not sure if he falls in with the rest of this muscle character but Marvin by Joshi is a nice character

Thanks for the great comparative renders of the available Muscular Mikes; personally, I like the wide upper body of Drax's "Musclebound Michael", the back and biceps of Capsces/Beth's "Boris", and the abs and legs and DAZ's Michael v2.0 (Muscle4). I have both Drax's (still waiting for the v1.2 update!) and Capsces/Beth's wonderful models (great work people!) and will definitely be getting DAZ's Michael v2.0, from what I've seen above. Can't wait to play "Dr Frankenstein" for the "ultimate" Muscular Mike! Muhahaha... Hail to Wyrmmaster, who starting the Mike beefcakes rolling! Wishing all a very Happy New Year!

I am not knocking
massive mike or MB mike
I am speaking from the perspective
of some one who needed at least ONE
heavily muscled male figure for my film and Mike2
fits MY needs in every way.

Drax: What on God's Green Earth is the point of creating a pose for Mike 2 (or any figure) without the morphs needed to get the best result? Who give a rodents butt what a figure can or cannot do sans morphs. It's a non-issue. In my opinion, the figure you've posted above of Musclebound Mike in the overhead pose looks complete unrealistic. The figure of Mike to the right does as well because his chest-up fix, shoulder-up fix, collar-up fix, and underarm-up fix have not been applied. And the Mike 2 figure at the right is just too silly to be discussed. Instead of taking the position that all Mike's look like crap without morphs (duh), would you kindly post an example of the best Muscebound Mike can do in this pose, morphs and all. Let us see what this guy can really do. Of course, I'm talking here about the version that's for sale right now, out of the box, as it were. I'm willing to be convinced, and my credit card is always close. Ironbear: I don't see the point in buying a product--just as an addition to my "tool box"--if it doesn't meet my needs.

I'm sorry for the confusion, cherokee69. Moving morphs from Boris to the clothing via Morph Manager or copy and paste will not work. Boris and the items of clothing each have a different mesh. The morphs must be recreated for each different model by modifying its mesh via Poser's magnets or a modeling program. Beth

Actually, to be more accurate, that is not even an update or upgrade. I clicked on the link, and read something that asked us to email DAZ Tech support, and provide invoice number, etc. There was no clear information what to expect after sending that email. In fact, I've never received a direct response to that entire issue. Surely if an update or fix was available, it should have been made available for download. I never cared for that situation a month ago, and the bittersweet feeling has not gotten any better with passage of time. That is why I was so happy when I was able to order Michael 2 from DAZ, and I got it without any problems.

ron daz has started asking for all that information to make sure you are not using pirited figures why should someone that stole a figure get the update too

You might want to read a message before you respond. DAZ has records of every transaction I've ever made with them. I've waited a month for the updates/fixes for Musclebound Mike. DAZ took information they already had, and never gave me a follow up.

I tend to agree with Ron here. Not everyone keeps their invoices forever, and harddrive crashes can play havok on your email folders. Daz on the other hand should have a purchaser and invoice list they can compare agaisnt to see if you purchased the required product for the update. And since it's computerized, comparing against the list could be a completely automated process.

Thanks Ironbear. The main points here: 1.) The Installation of Musclebound Mike was defective. 2.) There was a link to click on which talked about an update/fix. 3.) I provided all the necessary information. 4.) A month later I have not yet received the update or a satisfactory response. 5.) I am very irritated.

Have you contacted them again? Did you assume that they remembered a request that was made a month ago when they get hundreds of reqests a day? Are you on Earthlink since thy have trouble mailing to Earthlink people? I think it ould be much more productive to spend a follow up note with the information then bashing them and saying that you are irritated. Just my 2 cents.

Well let's see. Right now another update is already a bit overdue. So it's best to wait for that one. As far as mentioning any customer service related problems, I will darned well do that when the situation arises. The problem was partly with DAZ and with the creator of the figure. DAZ did something toward remedying part of the problem, while the artist did nothing. Guess who gets my money in the future.