For months now, I've been seeing all these "tribal" tattoos on texture maps. They resemble Klingon lettering more than anything else, and certainly don't look much like any historic tattoos or dye patterns (woad, henna, etc.). Are they part of the goth culture? I thought that werewolves and vampires came in clans, not tribes (even the perky goth in Dork Tower is a member of a clan). They don't seem to be part of the manga subculture, either: I leafed through some extremely violent copies of Kabuki, and not a tattoo in sight. There is a large fanbase in the Pacific Northwest of folks who would rather be Klingon than Human, but if this tattoo-craze was theirs, I'd expect to see lots of other Klingon-type stuff around here. So, who wears these tattoos? Why? Is it really for identification between tribal members? Carolly the Curious

I am confused by these so called "tribal" tattoos, as well. Where are the Maori face and body tatoos that gave origin to the word "tattoo"? (Yes, as far as I know, the Maori invented the word.) Now, a Google search came up with the newer "Maori Gang" Tattoos, but I digress. I'd like to see some of the originals.

(Now, some of you exceptional people, how about an animation file of those Maori Conflict dances? !!!)

The "tribal" tattoo comes from a style of art referred to as tribalism. It is basically black ink anf sharp points at the end of flowing curves.

Werewolves and Vampires in "clans"? Only in White Wolf game rhetoric, as far as I know.

I did a Google Image search on tattoo + gothic and tattoo + tribal and saw a fairly jumbled mishmash of references. The Pacific North Coast Indian could actually be considered tribal. The skulls and roses actually looked like what the local goth pupulation, and the remnants of the Greatful Deadheads favor. EA: the style with flowing lines ending in points is very Art Nouveau. Mucha and L'Auriol gave that treatment to fonts and flowers and anything else which couldn't outrun them. 60s poster artists picked up a little of it in their lettering (especially the flowing part), but this tattoo style seems to concentrate upon the sharp and jagged points... deliberately adding thorns to the lines. Do you know who coined the word "tribal" for this latest incarnation of the look? Did it come out of Burning Man or other major festival? Netherworks: I am in the games industry, so many of my references might be biased that way. So, educate me, all those wanna-be vampires wearing ashen facepaint and lace cuffs, how do they identify their groups? Carolly

Carolly, Are you in traditional games (tabletop) or computer? I guess I'm your all-around weirdo type. I do hang out in the goth scene (well been away for a couple of years, but am moving back to New Orleans very soon). Anyways, I have never gone white-face or have done the vampire-goth thing. Actually, the white-face is more "old school" 80's style. Okay, if we're talking actual goth sub-culture then everything revolves around music taste and common interest. This is (was) just as true in the Metal-Grunge scene, the (defunct?) Rave scene and the Rap scene. There are many subgroups in goth "circles". There are fetish goths (those who don a alot of mesh, vinyl and have cross-gender tastes), casual goths (dark clothes, but laid-back in style), etherial goths (mostly lies in less-agressive, dreamy music tastes and more formal clothes), renaissance goths (retro-styled clothes or accessories - top hats, lace, medieval gear, etc) and many, many other types of permutations (glitter-goths, industrial-goths, and so on). Now, a lot of style borrowing goes on as well, making this even harder to distinguish from the outside-in. So, unless you are quite perceptive or in the scene, it can be confusing... To muddy up things even more, you have table-top and live-action gamers. Now, there are "some" goths who do live-action gaming. However, most live-action roleplayers are not goths. They are more likely to be horror fans (movies and/or books) or avid gamers. As far as tattoos go, I really think it is outside all of it. As you probably well know, pre-90's, mainly bikers, rabble-rousers and rock stars got tattoos. Now, tattoos are very commonplace, so no identifying rule really applies there. So there you have it. As a sidenote, my goth point-of-view comes from being involved in the New Orleans scene. I'm sure the "rules" differ from place to place, so this probably is somewhat different in Los Angeles or Chicago.

Netherworks, Computer games, but this query doesn't have anything to do with that. I live in the part of Oakland which sticks up between Emeryville (artist's colony gone techy) and Berkeley (where people express themselves quite freely). I'm quite used to seeing people dressed in black. When a netpal who is a monk came down from Canada for a visit, he identified himself by saying "I'll be in black". I decided to wear purple that day. ;^) However, he was very easily distinguished from that trainload of people wearing black. His clothes were designed to not be noticed. At conventions with live action games, there are almost always a couple of goth and/or vampire groups. I'll be at Origins in a couple of weeks and the halls will be full of people, but even an outsider like me can probably get them sorted by type (even if the label is wrong): over here we have lace cravats and posy water, over there we have torn black underwear hanging down in shreds, etc.. Grooming and body language have something to add to the equation as well. So, let's hypothesize that people wear clothes of a particular style to be identifiable with a group. What happens when they are not wearing clothes? Most of the tattoos (both in the photos and in the skin textures) show tattoos in places which would normally be covered by clothing. Are different styles and placement of tattoos and piercings also symptomatic of the different subcultures? Let's suppose that an alien n-ray stripped all the clothing from the people of Berkeley. Ka-Zap! Could we sort out the hell's angels, the goths, and the performance artists based upon their body decoration alone? Carolly

Carolly, Well, you said that your references might be biased because of the games industry... so that's why I was curious to whether it was computer related or not. Hmm, styles of tattoos or piercings may be an "indicator" of a possible sub-culture. If everyone in an area were suddenly and mystically naked, the goths might be more likely to have tattoos with creepy designs: thorns, vampire imagery, etc. However, tribal patterns (thorns again, forked patterns, celtic knots) might be worn by anyone. Piercings are another story, I think. Many folks have tongue rings, an eyebrow ring and/or a lip ring. However, someone with many facial piercings is very likely to be part of a sub-culture - goth, rivethead, etc - an urban based one. Reality aside, cinema in particular plays up the gothic aspect with regards to tattoos. Did you happen to see "Blade 2"? Many of the vampires in that movie had extremely noticable tattoos, especially about the shoulders and face. As a matter of fact, some of the design consultants on the movie were artists who did imagery for White Wolf games. Extreme tattooing or piercing is very likely to conjure gothic imagery and those folks are pretty dedicated since working in any normal job would be impossible. I hope some of this is answering your questions and I don't want you or anyone else reading this thread that I assume to know all the answers to "how it works". Also, if you met me, you'd never know that I was gothically-inclined by how I appear when going to work or participating in something requiring normal dress. I don't have ANY tattoos and one piercing, but can goth-out with the best of them when going out to a club.

Give me 3 feet of naked steel, and I can "goth out" too! They might be a tad less fond of pointy things if they are prodded with a real sword? (The high medieval dress is hanging on the door behind me.) ;^) OK, if I've got this right, one tattooed rose on a butt cheek isn't going to identify a person as goth, but 5 nose rings and roses growing out of skulls and a bunch of tattooed bats fighting the dragons for real estate would probably lead "a reasonable man" to suspect that the person on the inside of that skin was goth. If there is more metal than tattoos, the wearer is likely to be part of a different subculture. From what I've seen, it doesn't look as though any way of decorating the body is too extreme. I didn't see Blade 1 or 2 (I avoid gross-out violence when possible). However, if the movie makers have picked up on this convergence of symbols, it is soon to be globally understood, if not accepted. Thank you for information and opinion on this. I've been curious for a while, but figured the goths might be as touchy as the Hell's Angels, so haven't just walked up to someone dressed all in pointy bits and asked. (Curiosity is NOT a survival trait!) Carolly

Hehe, you are right to presume that many goths are touchy about their lifestyle. The problem is that they feel that if they do enlighten others to the whys? what fors? it will just become a joke around dinner time for the non-goth folk. Unlike Hell's Angels, Goths are more likely to just ignore you or roll their eyes at you if you tried to query them, despite your intentions. Regards, Josef

Attached Link: http://www.temptu.com

Temptu sells alot of tattoos with tribal themes, and its probably where it caught on. I think tribal comes from the Papu-New Guinea and other Islands where the men decorate their whole body in these intricate black ink tattoos.

Okay.. Now I'm curious.... I've seen some of the textures in the MP that are VERY well done... I've played around with a character I'm making for my boyfriend (LARP Sabbat gamer)... Does anyone know of a few good sites for tattoo images... Ive done some searching through MSN and Google, but hate having to wade thro thousands and thousands of links... And as far as identification of "culture" or "subculture," I do know that within the gay community there is some level of "tribal" tattoos being used in this fashion. Whether the tattoo is located on either the left or right arm to signify "passive" or "aggressive" roles. I myself have no idea which is which, and I have only one tattoo that I created myself and then paid to have put on my arm... Don't know if you really wanted to know this kind of info... but there it is.. :) -Lee

And here's the back...

Wow, I didn't know that Lee. Is this a very new trend? I'm surprised because there's a very large gay community in New Orleans (as you probably know) and I have quite a few friends that have never spoke of such.

The flower behind one ear or the other, the keys on one hip or the other, the tattoo on one arm or the other.... The only problem with such secret signaling devices is that they only work if all parties know the code. And, of course, if all parties know the code, then it is no longer a secret signaling device. Maybe that risk is part of the thrill of having a secret identity. Suppose our young man in SF tattoos his left arm with a nice celtic pattern. He and his buddies think that it means "gay, passive, pagan". He then flies to Cincinatti for a conference, but that evening goes out on the town for a few drinks... where he discovers that celtic tattoos are only worn by terrorist hooligans of the IRA... and they aren't the least bit interested in his dating habits. Hmmm... at least the flower could be discarded or ring of keys could be moved if it ended up on the wrong hip for that part of the country! Tattoos tend to be pretty permanent. I found some nice tattoos using Google's image search. There were a few shops and catalogs, for further exploring if the representative image was good enough for a closer look. The labels didn't help with my main question, but the images were sometimes very intricate. Carolly

LOL! Carolly, I agree I guess I should have specified that I was in Dallas! For me, like I said.. I don't keep up with such things myself, as I still feel the business that goes on in someone's bedroom is there business, "secret codes" or not. I have one tat, it on my right shoulder... nothing spectacular... prolly the only one I'll ever get, and it wouldn't mean anything to anyone but me... Peace -Lee