Legume wins the unofficial poll. R'osity management has decided to give him a prize, after all--a Bible and a one-way ticket to Yemen!

BWAAAHAHAHAHAAAA LOL! Congrats Legume!

Since the unoffical poll was only posted in the Poser Forum, I can't agree that The People have spoken...The Poser People may have spoken, but how about the Bryce People, the Lightwave People, the 2D People, The Vue People, and all the rest of the people that are members. In Fairness the unoffical poll should have been posted in every artist forum!

You're right, illusions. That was a small sampling and it does seems as if it was unfairly slanted to favor the Poser artists. Legume has vigorous advocates who were sure to vote for him, while some people may have missed the fact that an unofficial vote existed simply because of the way it was posted. They may or may not have voted for Legume had they known. And some people were so discouraged that they abstained altogether. I personally think they should have declared the artist of the year null and void for 2002. No one won in this sad affair.

yep, I gotta agree with you on that one dailyn! It is a sad affair...with no winners no matter what. I understand the error that was made by Tammymc and appreciate her comming forward to admit to it and apologize...hey sh_t happens, unfortunately when it happens here too many people like to add to the pile.

Considering all types of artists were in the running and the "poll" was only posted in one forum, I have to agree. But what's done is done. Nothing will appease everyone so call it done and I'm sure everything will be better this year.

And congrats Legume. :)

I hope you are right, Kendra. But I can't congratulate anyone on a win like this. I think something was, in fact, lost. But I will join you in hoping things are better this year.

You are right Kendra, nothing will appease everyone, but if conern was really Fairness of the poll in the first place, in the interests of Fairness it can't be called done without giving all the members a chance to have a say. There are a lot of members that don't go to the Poser Forum, that didn't get a chance to unofficially vote. If the controversy is truly about fairness, let's be truly fair...even unoffically.

illusions, dialyn--why not post your own unofficial polls in all the forums? We'll all go around voting in each of them, and then you can add up all the numbers and throw out the duplicate votes, and... No, wait--here's an idea--maybe R'osity could save you the trouble and post it on the FRONT PAGE where everyone can see it! Doh! My point was that yeah, the "unofficial" poll (posted by one of the Poser forum mods--go figure) is a pretty hollow victory at best, for whoever. It was a joke. You know--irony. Yeesh.

Wait--here's another idea: maybe we should just keep having polls until Legume DOESN'T win. Now THAT would be fair!

Be as sarcastic as you like...but are you under the impression that you are the only one allowed to have legitimate concerns? You made your views known in five or six different threads, at length, over several days...there's no doubt in my mind about where you stand or what agenda you are promoting. I don't think we have less right to speak on the subject. I know all too well what the issues are. If I am a little sad as to what the result is (and I don't mean about who theoretically "won"), I have that right. And I sincerely am hoping for less grandstanding and a better system in 2003. I can hope. but I don't expect it to happen.

Mosca, on the one hand you keep saying the issue is the poll being pulled removing the vote from the members...yet...at the same time you say it was pulled to keep Legume from winning! If you think the PTB's are expected to be consistent shouldn't you be too? There isn't a single bit of irony in the unofficial poll declaring Legume the winner, unless the irony is that it wasn't posted anywhere except the Poser Forum...making it as unfair as the official poll that was pulled.

Mosca said "Wait--here's another idea: maybe we should just keep having polls until Legume DOESN'T win. Now THAT would be fair!"

So...it's all about Legume after all!

"There isn't a single bit of irony in the unofficial poll declaring Legume the winner, unless the irony is that it wasn't posted anywhere except the Poser Forum...making it as unfair as the official poll that was pulled." Cripes. It was unofficial. That means "not official." That means, the outcome means squat. ("Squat"=nothing.) It can't be considered fair or unfair, really, because it's meaningless. You could just as easily conduct your own official poll, as I mentioned before--maybe the outcome would be more to your liking. But that would mean squat, too. "Mosca, on the one hand you keep saying the issue is the poll being pulled removing the vote from the members...yet...at the same time you say it was pulled to keep Legume from winning!" Right. Where's the inconsistency? It would've been just as unfair if they'd pulled it to keep ANY of the contestants from winning. You haven't really been paying attention here, apparently.

"Be as sarcastic as you like." Really? Woo-hoo! "but are you under the impression that you are the only one allowed to have legitimate concerns?" Nope. And in a sense we agree--this whole fiasco is a small disaster for R'osity and a slap in the face for the finalists and the membership at large. It is sad, you're right.

Me: "You could just as easily conduct your own official poll" Translation: "UNofficial." Sorry.

Since there are Polls on R'osity, they could just set up an "unofficial" poll there and cross-post links to all fora or maybe within the page header/footer. But, I think the "unofficial" poll was more to gather reactions about the potential for a public, forum-based poll; and not so much to decide a "winner" for AOY. Just a simple experiment in an environment JeffH could maintain control over.

Just a simple experiment in an environment JeffH could maintain control over. and he picked the Poser forum??? Oh, dear. I have no doubt JeffH meant well, and of course he is the moderator of the Poser forum so that is the one he would post on, but I don't think it solved anything. It's been my experience that once the cream has turned sour, there's no way to make it sweet again. But maybe things will get better in 2003. Maybe. Losing hope but hanging on to the idea.

Thought this was meant to be an art site not a competition site.

Legume's getting a Bible? It's about time. ;)

I glanced through the thread--it actually looked pretty civilized. People could even say why they were voting the way they were. No doubt, had it been bigger, it would've gotten chaotic--things do, here.

"Legume's getting a Bible? It's about time. ;)" He ate the last one...

Mosca said: "Where's the inconsistency? It would've been just as unfair if they'd pulled it to keep ANY of the contestants from winning. You haven't really been paying attention here, apparently."

I have been paying very close attention to all the threads. You repeatedly don't seem to mention ANY contestants EXCEPT Legume, making it obvious you don't really care about the contest, all you care about is Legume winning.

I do remember the PTB posting that the AOY would be chosen by the Admins/Mods quite sometime ago...unfortunately I can't seem to find the post, it may have been in C&D which is long gone. Tammymc's "oops" doesn't really bother me because nothing was taken away since the members weren't supposed to vote for AOY anyway. I'm probably the only one that remembers that.

I will agree with this...the method for determining AOM & AOY should have been posted in the contests section so it was clear to everyone how AOY would be selected right from the start so there could be no questions.

**There is no conspiracy here...only poor judgement and lack of foresight.</>

**

"I have been paying very close attention to all the threads. You repeatedly don't seem to mention ANY contestants EXCEPT Legume, making it obvious you don't really care about the contest, all you care about is Legume winning." Well, maybe there's an issue with reading comprehension. From: "Admins Hijack AOY" Post #4, 12/21/02 "The more I think about this development the more it annoys me. I don't care who wins AOY (though I'm a big fan of Legume's work); what offends me is the notion that if the customers won't select the "right" AOY (i.e., someone who matches R'osity's heavily postworked "corporate image"), we'll have won selected for us. It's insulting, utterly unfair, and renders the AOY meaningless." Post #52, 12/21/02 "Know who I really feel bad for in all of this? ToxicAngel. I mean, he had a better than even shot at winning straight up, without this ham-handed interference by the admins. Now, whoever's declared the winner, it's meaningless, tainted not by the members who are protesting but by the admins' control-freak management style." From: "Dear Tim: an Open Letter" Post #1, 12/22/02 "It's time to offer a solution that is fair for all involved--the contestants and the voting members. And it's time to offer a sincere, prominently placed apology to Legume and ToxicAngel in particular and the customer-members in general for the ham-handed mismanagement that led to this fiasco." From: "Dear Tammymc" Post #75, 12/26/02 "I could care less who wins--what pisses me off is the utter disregard management has demonstrated again and again for the concerns of the customer-members, you and me. Those of us who buy from the MP support the site with OUR money--WE pay for the bandwidth, WE provide the "free" galleries, WE pay for the contest prizes, WE pay the salaries. Sure, I think Legume's a hoot--but I also think ToxicAngel would make a fine AOY. I just think the timing here is extremely suspect, and I think management owes us more than "oops--sorry!" by way of explanation." Post #143, 12/26/02 "If you'd actually bothered to read the rest of these threads, you'd know that I've said several times that I don't care who wins AOY, that I think ToxicAngel (or any of the rest of the finalists, for that matter) would make a fine AOY, and that I'd have the same issue with management no matter WHO they were discriminating against--it just appears to be Legume in this case. I'm starting to resent your characterization of me as a shrill, screaming, ranting, raving "sidekick" of Legume's--in fact, I've simply been direct and persistent in asking questions about R'osity's sudden decision to yank the AOY voting--the official explanation still doesn't make sense to me, and I think the customer-members deserve an honest, straightforward explanation. I also think the AOY finalists deserve an equitable solution--it's up to management to produce one, the sooner the better. And that's all I have to say to you--you've contributed nothing to this thread, as far as I can see, beyond a lot of rambling misapprehension and a few interesting adventures in grammar. If you don't think this issue is important, butt out and let the grownups sort it out." And that's just 12/21-12/26--shall I continue? Anyway, I've never claimed that Legume wasn't part of the issue here--management finds Legume abrasive and difficult, and, well, scary; therefore management doubts the wisdom of having Legume represent the site as AOY; therefore management pulls the vote after three days of encouraging customer-members to participate. That looks like discrimination to me--different rules for different people. That's unfair. Would I be equally upset if it had happened to someone else? Honestly, I think I would, yes.

"I do remember the PTB posting that the AOY would be chosen by the Admins/Mods quite sometime ago...unfortunately I can't seem to find the post," Gee. I'm shocked. "Tammymc's "oops" doesn't really bother me because nothing was taken away since the members weren't supposed to vote for AOY anyway. I'm probably the only one that remembers that." Including tammymc and the entire staff, apparently, until the vote had been in progress for three days. I've heard of mass amnesia before, but this is the first time I've ever seen it in practice.

Any poll that does not include me as a contender should be considered suspect and avoided. That's my advice, anyway.

"Any poll that does not include me as a contender should be considered suspect and avoided." BAH! i am voting for seane or figaro next time- sorry tuttle };>

hrumph!

but anyway - yay vote for ME!!! :+P It'll look good on the resume... cheers Sean

Mosca said: "Well, maybe there's an issue with reading comprehension." Nope not a bit, Legume's name came up 5 times in the "examples" you gave. My reading comprehension is just fine, my "reading between the lines" comprehension is even better.

Mosca said: "I've heard of mass amnesia before, but this is the first time I've ever seen it in practice." Nope, just selective memory at it's best! Convenient ain't it. :^P

Mosca said: "Anyway, I've never claimed that Legume wasn't part of the issue here--" 99 44/100 % it would seem...

"...management finds Legume abrasive and difficult, and, well, scary; therefore management doubts the wisdom of having Legume represent the site as AOY..." Well, that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it, although it's all based on your conjecture and your belief. .

"...therefore management pulls the vote after three days of encouraging customer-members to participate. That looks like discrimination to me--different rules for different people." Well just like you're entitled to your opinion I suppose you're entitled to interpret the facts to suit your beliefs. Tammymc admitted it was a "miscommunication", no big conspiracy...just a simple "foo-bar", you put your own spin on it.

"That's unfair. Would I be equally upset if it had happened to someone else? Honestly, I think I would, yes." It's good to know you think you would, but it would be nice to know you were 100% certain you would...it seems doubtful though.

You accused me of not mentioning other artists. I showed you a number of posts in which I did, in fact, mention other artists. Now, apparently, you want me to never, ever say the word "Legume"; apparently you think it's an indicator of some damning moral inconsistency in what I'm trying to point out in these threads. In fact (and I'll try to state this as clearly as I can), what I've said over and over is this: the way the poll was pulled, given the context of the last year or so regarding AOM/AOY, gave the appearance, to me, that management had invoked the Legume Rule once again (a la last year's AOM vote), and withdrew the voting specifically because he, whose name we shall not speak, was making a run at first place. Which, if it's true, is categorically unfair. There's also the unfairness you're talking about--which is giving members a vote and then reneging. There's also an injustice done to ToxicAngel, and the other finalists. So, to my way of thinking, there are three ways in which management's actions seem suspect: the fact that they offered a vote and then withdrew it, the fact that all of the finalists had a right to expect a fair and competently conducted vote, and the appearance that the vote was withdrawn because a specific finalist--someone with a long history of bitching and derailing--was about to win. Management says it was all a big mistake; I'm not convinced by that explanation. Management says they'll pick somebody for us; that doesn't seem like an equitable solution to me, for anybody--whoever they give it to, the result would be tainted. Honestly, if I was one of the finalists, I'd withdraw at this point rather than allow myself to be appointed--but that's just me (and if I was Tiger Woods, I'd boycott the Masters). But whatever. Once again, FOMs (friends of management) are determined to make me the issue, and divert attention away from the message--I guess the hope is that it'll eventually start a big flame war and management will have an excuse to lock and delete these threads, and toss me out on my ear. What that demonstrates to me is that they, the FOMs, essentially have no argument. You'd think they'd have figured out by now that attacking me just serves to keep these threads alive, and gives me an opportunity to ask, yet again, the questions I have regarding this year's AOY process. So, your turn. I'm happy to continue to argue this with you as long as you'd like (and I have to say, all the italics and boldface and whatnot are very persuasive).

Seems like illusions has it out for you, Mosca. ;0)

Just what we need, another conspiracy. Let's see we have the evil overlords against Legume being AOY, the evil underlords against Legume being AOM, and illusions (and probably me) against Mosca. I honestly think the whole AOY thing was messed up. And, yes, I think it should be revised (or just eliminated as an idea). And sure, the administrators should be posting responses to these endless threads...oh, yeah, one did and made the sorry mistake of apologizing. Forget that one. What I don't buy into is this whole conspiracy thing. There is no logic to that. I can't deal with X-Files explanations. Oh, well. TGIF. Dance away to the weekend. Get away from the computer. Walk the dog. Hug the cat. Maybe even do a graphic or two that no one will view and give up on my grand ambition to be AOY myself (you know, in so many ways that is a good thing). Joking, joking...I was never in that league and never will be. Blessed be. Take care all. And I like illusions putting some variety in the messages. Those long blocks of paragraphs are hard to read after awhile. So I don't. :)

Me: "...management finds Legume abrasive and difficult, and, well, scary; therefore management doubts the wisdom of having Legume represent the site as AOY..." illusions: "Well, that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it, although it's all based on your conjecture and your belief." That's a little like arguing that evolution and creationism are both just theories, and therefore of equal scientific weight. My opinion on this matter is not based on conjecture and belief--it's based on my years of experience here, practically since day one, observing management's behavior: what they've done versus what they've said. Me: "That's unfair. Would I be equally upset if it had happened to someone else? Honestly, I think I would, yes." Illusions: "It's good to know you think you would, but it would be nice to know you were 100% certain you would...it seems doubtful though." It would be a wonderful world indeed if we were all 100% morally perfect in every regard, yes. Which leads me to wonder what your motivation is here--just baiting me, I suppose, which is fine. Apparently you're happy with management's actions re AOY, but you shouldn't be--if I'm right about what happened, then they could just as easily do the same thing to you. And that would be unfair, too (but if you want me to advocate for you, you'll have to learn to give one hell of a blowjob. Legume's got it going ON). Sometimes I just crack me up, y'know?

Geez, dialyn, is everything to you a conspiracy? Obviously humor does not factor in anywhere.

Anyone wanna keep going on crying "Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!?"

"Seems like illusions has it out for you, Mosca. ;0)" Maybe he just forgot to zip up. Doh!

"low blow", Mosca. ;0)

Isn't that the best kind? What George Carlin said...

And now we have voting for AOM for January... They never learn here, do they...

Cyberstretch...I got the humor. I was being sardonic, not serious. The conspiracy theory didn't come from me originally and I have made it plain that I think it's silly. Oh well. I was never good at playing the game of word twister. Don't worry, I won't vote. I don't think my one vote will be missed somehow. And that's okay too. Take care all.

Well okay, so the unofficial poll in the poser forum shows Legume as the winner(Congrats to Legume for winning that contest;))...there's no point in trying to pretend that I don't have a point of view at this point but I do feel the need to point something out although I'm sure no one will listen due to the fact that you know I am already biased in the other direction. There was once an "Official" poll which was on the front page for everyone to vote on anonymously which was showing someone else in the lead. Now unfortunately that poll was pulled but does that not count for something? BTW, Congrats to ToxicAngel...the actual AOY winner...;) Sorcha<---voted for ToxicAngel and just voted for Roobol for AOM

"And now we have voting for AOM for January... They never learn here, do they... " Definition of insanity- doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Guess I am just as guilty of that insanity as well because i actually keep expecting fair and equitable contests. Bleh

Has anyone noticed someone is missing and only the Pink Pony remains, or is it ill mannered of me to point that out?

Well, no surprise. I'm sure ToxicAngel will do a fine job of representing the site; his work really is technically very good, and his aesthetic is tongue-in-groove with R'osity's image of itself, I think. Not sure why Legume deleted most of his gallery. Can't say that I blame him, though.

Hmmm....I am surprised, actually. Well, I go back to what I said originally. No one really won.

It's all so Bush/Gore. But there you are.

You mean they did the deciding count in Florida? There we are.

There was no winner this year.Period. And I refuse to vote in anymore of the AOM contests either. My vote isnt wanted or considered in the AOY, why would I take the time to vote for AOM? Fuck it. Rosity got what they wanted,they chose AOY not the membership of this site so why dont they just pic an AOM? OUR OPINION isnt wanted or needed right? Fuck it. I voted for the last time on this site.

Um, excuse me, as a new member here could someone explain to me why any of this matters? It all seems to be a bit out of hand and blown up out of all proportion.

I thought artist of the month/year was just a bit of fun???

There are apparently over 100,000 members, how many people actually take the time to vote or look at the nominations?

It doesn't seem to me anything to get steamed up about. This is called a community and unfortunately seems to be suffering from the same thing all communities do; factionalism, confrontation and disagreement.

Such is life

"There are apparently over 100,000 members, how many people actually take the time to vote or look at the nominations?" That is the point, the people that actualy took the time to vote and look at the galleries arent very happy that their vote was disgarded, and the decision made by admin. They of course have the right to do just that, however I would be very surprised if participation in contests and voting for contests didnt dwindle after such a decision, I for one will not take the time to do so in the future.

who cares