From the fact that this is the second release of this product, I'm guessing it's been around for a while, but it doesn't seem to have gotten a lot of high-profile use. (When deciding whether or not to buy it, I researched the galleries and found only two images crediting Environment Creator I.) Possibly this is because of the complexity of the product (though it has a very well-designed user interface, with a GUI that uses the TCL capabilities in Python), or maybe just because people aren't completely sure what it is and what it does. I wasn't until I installed it and started playing with it.

What EC is, is a complete replacement for the nearly-worthless lighting controls in Poser. And I mean complete. EC II aims to put lighting ability of the type only seen in the higher-end 3D apps into Poser. Using EC, you get amazingly fine-grained control over every aspect of light and shadow in your scene. Using its interface you configure the kind of lighting you want, and EC responds by creating and then letting you control a very large number of Poser lights simultanously in many different ways with a single movement of a slider or push of a button. You'll never have to touch the Poser "light ball" again (and you probably wouldn't want to once you get the hang of it, because EC will spoil you totally for the kind of clumsy, gross adjustments that are all you can get out of the native Poser lighting tools.)

It doesn't surprise me that PCBos, who made Enviroment Creator, is also a painter in traditional media. I think it would take someone with a deep understanding and appreciation for the fundamental role of light in painting to create a product like this for Poser. Environment Creator literally lets you paint your scene with light, adjusting down to the smallest details how light and shadows will affect your textures and objects. With practice, it's possible to achieve radiosity-type effects, soft shadows -- all the tools needed for genuine photorealism -- and, for someone like me who doesn't do much with photorealism, it also offers an amazing palette of beautiful painterly effects right in the render, rather than postworked in afterwards.

Environment Creator II is not a canned light set. Most people aren't going to be able to install it and then just start banging out renders. The little picture I've posted here was done after about ten minutes of examining the tools; it's not much because I've still got a long way to go in learning the ins and outs of EC, but it shows a global lighting setup that would have taken me an hour or two to do on my own and then adjust the way I wanted it. Environment Creator II has a definite learning curve, but if you're willing to invest some time and effort, in my opinion this is a product with an astounding amount of new tools to offer and one that can take your Poser renders to a whole new level.

That's beautiful. I just purchased the P5 version last night. I haven't had a chance to play with it yet though. Looks promising.

It would be nice if someone would post some tutorials for it Koda

It's going to be a while before I'm good enough with it to even try to make a tutorial. :) But PCBos, the creator, has posted a intro guide/tutorial on his site at http://www.pcbos.nl (click into the site and then choose the link for Poser.)

where is this product, i did a search for environment and still didn't find it 8{ a p5 version? kewl! are there screenshots in the product page? if not, can you guys post some? thanks :)

ok, got cross posted with fauve while i was off doing a search :D i'm off to look at his website... thanks.

It's on the Daz site if anyone else is having problems finding it.

Here's another image done with the same light set as the first one, but a different figure (this is the Stephanie character Amy Marie by ByteMeOk.)

This particular light set, made in about five minutes worth of playing around, has fifty-seven different lights in it; sky lights, sun lights, bounces, fills, etc. With the EC interface you set the aspect of the lights you want to work with (color, intensity, etc), then using GUI buttons you can choose groups of lights by position (front lights, back lights, right-side lights) or by category (all bounces, all sun lights.) You can also refine your selection (ie, only bounce lights that are on the right side.) No more trying to figure out what "Light 57" does in your scene. The real strength of this app is that it will create the lighting setup for you based on your input, and then will allow you to control very large numbers of lights easily and efficiently to get a particular effect. (Here you can see where I was starting to experiment with radiosity, in the yellow reflected sculpting highlight under her chin.)

I'm with fauve, except, without ECII, I don't think I could come up with the results even in a couple of days (relative beginner). This is also one of my first "playing around" attempts, and is the Poser5 version (sorry, couldn't find a temple - must get some glasses) ECII is just too much - it adds so much more than the standard lights or my miserable attempts at creating my own sets. And Poser (5 at any rate, don't know about the earlier versions) looks to be very critical of lighting. A "must buy", in my opinion.

By way of comparison, here is a render of the same scene, same character using one of Daz's global illumination light presets instead of the EC II lighting.

here's a "landscape" quickie

unfortunately it isnt for regular poser 4. :(

- and a bad example of what happens when you:- 1. spend too much time on the computer (with liquid help) 2. use the PhotoReader in ECII - it "reads in photographs (currently only GIF files, but that may alter in future) and, interactively, creates Environments from them. You 'll be surprised by how realistic these Light Environments work..." - quote from pcbos. ... ok it's a quick and dirty example, but I'm tired, and am going to bed. Goodnight, granma.

I had problems setting mine up in Pro Pack when I first got it-- but I'm a nube with Python and just couldn't figure out how to get it started. That isn't going to stop me from getting it for P5. one question-- I'm going to bed too so you can answer in the morning-- with 57 lights, how on earth did you ever render at all in P5???? I waited for an hour for one shadowmap this afternoon--granted I had something set wrong I think. Emily

thanks for the heads up again :D so, 57 lights, that must make the render time about equal to bryce? teehee... so the famed quick rendering in poser (relative to bryce and raytracing) was only cos lights weren't being used properly! lol

Three minutes rendering time start to finish in P5, using the P4 renderer. :) Of course, this is with one figure and no surrounding scene. The more objects you add to reflect light and make shadows, the longer the render is going to take, of course.

Though with the number of "sculpting" shadow lights created in the EC set, I was also getting very nice renders with the shadow render option turned off entirely. Here is my little lady from the start of the thread again but rendered with no shadows this time. I think she still looks pretty good, and this render (P4, anti-alias on, shadows off) took about forty-five seconds.

Also, oddly enough, the render using the Daz global illumination preset, which has about half the amount of lights, took five minutes with shadows on (as opposed to the three minutes for the EC lights.) So even with the larger number of lights the EC render was more efficient. I am rapidly falling in love with this thing. :)

@queri - ok, I think P5 has serious memory leaks, but the P5 version is seriously different from the P4 version. In both versions, there were sample light sets included. I tried EC1 with P4, it didn't work... and the sample light set, together with V2/3 figures/textures and P5 hair gave the usual result - it gave up in the middle of the render. But with ECII, there are a lot of differences. OK, one can still concoct a mixture that will cause p5 to give up, but I'm surprised at how well the lights render - it caused a smile to break out in an environment where there was often no smile in the last few months (my face). @AprilYSH - dunno how long bryce takes... raytracing? - is an option in P5... was it there in earlier versions? :-))

I might pick up ver II if it wasn't so expensive to upgrade. Marque

oops - I tried EC1 with P5, not P4. I only have P5. @fauve - I've already fallen! (but now I'm really going to fall - into bed. G'night

Does the P5 version turn on ray-traced shadows automatically? Or do you have to do it manually as with the Global Illum package? I wish you could set the default in P5 so that all lights would start as ray-trace!

"@AprilYSH - dunno how long bryce takes... raytracing? - is an option in P5... was it there in earlier versions? :-)) " bryce seemed very slow compared to knocking something simple up in poser, but if you set up lighting as good as it is in bryce, poser is slower. till now i had been comparing apples to oranges! :/ firefly rendering was not in poser 4. i like to use it for production renders but i haven't really pushed it yet, still using p4 rendering for simple pictures. :)

Yeah this does look cool. The Global Lights take longer only because of the shadows. Look at the shadows around the hair in #10. That is why those lights take a bit longer. They were designed for items that normally can't cast shadows in Poser due to thinness and transparency. This program doesn't really change or speed up how lights in Poser render. But it is a fabu interface improvement. Just so people don't misunderstand.

I was just looking at that and was wondering what it was about. Very cool! Looks like something I gotta have. :)

Attached Link: http://www.pcbos.nl

Hello Fauve, and everybody else- I stumbled on this thread by accident- and I'm of course very much flattered - but much more: very, very fulfilled! now I know my ECII really does what I wanted, and meant it to do - by your, and other's, comments. Indeed I've tried to put my experience with light into mathematic formulae for others to use, and I must say I'm pleased as PUNCH that it is working so well.. You show the learning curve very well in your pictures, I'm happy to see you're starting to use the reflection lights (the "BOUNCE" part of the Environment). bit of info for everybody: ************************* Tutuorial-let to be found on my ECII page At my site -for IE 6.0 users: http://www.pcbos.nl/Poser_Website/Poser_Web800.html -- this loads the least heavy site image, see below -- You find an updated "tutorial-let" with images and so on. If you want to be kind to the purpose of my site, you could also use http://www.pcbos.nl and then follow link "Poser" You then get a site that is adapted to the capabilities of your computer. And NO, you will not find any commercials at my site, or those pop-up things:-) ************************* And some more: Are you already aware of what the "SunDial" can do? And why you have the module "SeasonMaker"? In the coming months, I will release more polished Season Definitions, and, perhaps, once Poser 5 is up to it, some plugins for working with Spotlights. In Poser 5, you can set up your lighting with ECII (Personally, I never do otherwise, and it's really not because I'm the author), and then render with the FireFly engine if you want. Oh yes- can I also say how glad how I am with the thread about ECII's efficiency?! ECII lights are NOT standard Poser 5 lights by the way, it creates them on-the-fly. This is why it takes a bit longer to create the Environment then under Poser 4. But they render like lightning, with no compromise whatsoever - the reverse, in fact. Of course, when you work with a 57 or higher number of lights, rendering time becomes longer- but ECII sets things to the most efficient state, and with regard for Poser's inner memory structure. So you can do a lot more in the same time, that's what it comes down to. Raytracing lights- if you want quality, trust on the ECII sets. They are optimized for what they are meant to do. Once the rendering engine is worth it, I will post an update for raytracing -that is a promise. As things stand now, it would just take more time - with LESS quality. Believe me, I've tried and tested and double - tested: for now, raytracing has nothing to do with getting results that look good. If anybody has a question: tech@pcbos.nl will help as fast as I can - and that is another promise. P.S. I haven't mentioned the SnapShot Lists, into which you can pack up to 32 totally different Environments. Will release some freebies soon in that format, they're specially meant for exchanging even the most complex Environments. Cheers, Paul Christiaan

Can you create lighting environments within EC that you can port over to another application? Perhaps DAZ Studio in the future?

Attached Link: http://www.pcbos.nl

Once I get the specs - and if DAZ leaves some hooks dangling. But it is a good suggestion, I will contact DAZ about it. Thanks! Cheers, Paul Christiaan

BM

...

"Raytracing lights- if you want quality, trust on the ECII sets. They are optimized for what they are meant to do. Once the rendering engine is worth it, I will post an update for raytracing -that is a promise. As things stand now, it would just take more time - with LESS quality. Believe me, I've tried and tested and double - tested: for now, raytracing has nothing to do with getting results that look good." Does this mean they won't work in Firefly? The P5 P4 renderer doesn't recognise a lot of the P5 specific material setting and such. It would be a shame to have to choose one over the other and not be able to use P5 material settings with the new lights.

I don't have an image to post, but I did do a comparison render with both firefly and the P4 renderer. I found the firefly render better, though not tremendously so.

But they work. That's the important part. Now, if I am using standard materials, I can use these lights with the speed of the P4 renderer, but if I am using special materials, I can still use them in Firefly. There is an option to turn on raytracing for each object, so ifI don't need the lights raytraced, then I don't need to do anything to them, but I'll still get my other scene components raytraced if I want? Or do I have to have the raytracer turned off in Firefly completely? I'm not quite sure how raytracing works. I just really like the effect it has on certain things, like skin, and fine detailed objects.

Well, I did a Firefly versus Poser 4 comparison (apologies for the graphic but I wasn't going for artistry).

I have to say, I'm impressed with this program. Despite the mega number of lights, Poser 5 rendered on (and I can't say that about all light sets I've tried). Firefly took longer to render, but Firefly always takes longer to render (for me). I have a wimpy Windows ME set up so don't think I have a super computer system to work off of. And I'm a techno idiot...if I can get the program to do anything, it's proof it's fairly user friendly (I'll admit, it took some playing to figure out what's going on but the help screens are good about pointing you in the right direction). I have zero experience with Python scripts, by the way.

Good job, Paul!

Attached Link: http://www.pcbos.nl

hello everybody,

I thought: since you're posting so many good pictures- even after the shortest of acquaintance with ECII, I'm quite impressed; the least I could do, was to post one of my own.

Raytracing- let's come back to that- is NO problem. AND You can use any P4 / P5 material, but believe me, leave ECII's lights alone. You really get the best results that way, for now. The moment Raytracing adds extra, you get the update- and I ALWAYS keep word.

If you need extra Raytrace, use an extra spotlight. This doesn't bother ECII (though it will continue to ask you if you don't want to DELETE the "Strange, non EC Light"!), so you can mix the two rendering strategies as much as you like.

Anyway, here's my picture. It's pretty subtle, and perhaps you don't like it much. But I'm sure you perfectionists understand why I chose this to send, not a spectacular picture. To me, this picture says a lot about what kind of control ECII gives you.

Later on today, perhaps tomorrow, I will release a few freebies for EC II- in the Python section of this great site: complete Light Sets, for recreating by the Reader. The Lighting Environment above ("MoonLit") will be one of them. So if you like it, you can have it :-)

Cheers,

Paul Christiaan

tech@pcbos.nl

http://www.pcbos.nl
follow link "Poser"

Attached Link: http://www.pcbos.nl

Hi Dialyn!

Thanks for the kind words - I'm getting wunderful mails all the time, I think ECII is really doing what I wanted, and it's a great, great feeling. Fantastic to know so many people seem to get straight away what the program is about, and are able to work with it in a short time!

Hands up, anybody: did you use the help thing : "PhotoReader in 3 easy steps", or the like, when you started for the first time? It was very hard work, writing these helpfiles -programlets in themselves, in fact-, and I'm curious to know if they worked for you.

Just let me know

Cheers,

Paul Christiaan

Oh gosh I can't wait to open this thing up now >^_^< I bought the Tailor at the same time and have been sp busy making a new wardrobe for my V3 male and female characters that I haven't had time to play with this yet. I will definitely spend some time with this tonight. Your picture is a fabulous example Paul. Is that all light effects, or is there post work in there too? It looks like a dream, and has an oil painterly feel to it.

Hi Just out of curiosity which module do most people start with Koda

I went for the "Season Maker" and poked around there first, but that may be because that's the first thing on the menu and I always start out more orderly than I end up.

How do you get the window to enlarge? It cuts off on the right hand side but I can't seem to expand it. I bet I'm missing something very simple. The window scrolls to the right on its own when I move the mouse but it won't stay there. Ideas? Suggestions? Help?

P.S. All my screens are similarly cut off on the right hand side.

.

I think it's the "security" setting (which prevents the window from being changed while EC is active. Try hitting the F12 key, then see if you can move/resize the window.

Attached Link: http://www.pcbos.nl

Oh, let me see. Cut off? Try Function Key F12 and move the window. If that doesn't work, go to the prefs menu, and choose Change Font In the window that now opens, do NOT choose a different font (please :-)), but move the slider on the right a bit downwards. You'll see the effect in the sample text below the slider. Just make things smaller a bit. Click OK to return to EC, and see if it did work. If you want to make double sure, EXIT the module you were using, then open it again. What you now see is what you certainly will get. Please check out the helpfiles to see if they all still look good!! So: FIRST: use the F12 trick. Move the window to the middle of your screen. ONLY if this doesn't work: Change the Font Size. If this still is not enough, rummage around in the different fonts in the Font window, and experiment with fonts and different sizes till you're happy. If THIS -STILL- wouldn't work: mail me at tech@pcbos.nl would someone have the kindness to send me as SMALL a file as possible with a picture of what happens- PLEASE NOT a whole screen, I have a very slow internet connection. DO be nice to me and try to stay below 15K :-) It should be enough for me to understand what you mean. And not to worry- it will be solved. But I need to know what system you run etcetera, and understand exactly what you mean. Anyway, first try and get the thing to the middle of the screen, OK?

Attached Link: http://www.pcbos.nl

Momcat, I forgot in my last message: no, no post work whatsoever in the picture! This is ECII pure-

and some news: I will post some SnapShot Files on Renderosity and on my own site, later tonight.
They hold the Environment as in my picture above, plus some soft, golden sun. Together, you get about 27 totally different Environments in two files. Practical for a suitcase or what?

You open these SnapShot Files in the Reader, where the Environment gets recreated (use Button "Read", of course). Once the Reader is ready, the LightWorkShop will startup automatically. (in the MAC, you have to start the LightWorkShop by hand, sorry)

The LightWorkShop, under the SnapShot Button, will show a long list with names.
The last one is the Environment as in the picture, all the others are variations- sometimes extremely so.
Scroll the list, choose a name and see what happens.
You can tell me if you like it, but you don't have to :-)

If you encounter any problems- just let me know

Hey! I see only now that Fauve hit the solution! Good for you, Fauve! It seems nobody thinks of hitting F1 if they're in trouble (the F12 thing gets mentioned first in the "basics" helpfile, if I remember..) There you are, and I thought I had thought of everything :-)) What do I know..

http://www.pcbos.nl
follow link "Poser"

tech@pcbos.nl

Cheers everybody,

Paul Christiaan

Dialyn, forgive me- I didn't see the picture. You could try and set your videocard to "small lettertypes" (96 dpi). If you could manage this way, it would be the best solution of all. If that doesn't work: go to "Change Font", and change the size. 1 Point less should do. I suppose you run this r.. XP? TIP: try and use "Times"for the second Font. As far as I can make out, the "arial" font size is more or less OK. :-(( WHY is Microsoft as Microsoft is- I would really like to know. Anyway, problem solved. EC remembers what font it is supposed to load, and at what size. So, once you're happy with it, it's OK. Next tool, I'll include the font, seems to me the best thing. Hope this helps you!! Paul

Hi Paul Any samples of the creator used for black and white? Thanks Koda

Well, I had tried F12 and that moved the window around but it doesn't do anything for resizing it, and I didn't see in the help menu anything that said that resizing the font would make the window smaller (that's not intuitive to me). However, changing the font did work, and then Poser froze and I had to reboot the system. I think I am not going to play any more tonight. Some days I just can win for losing (an old expression of my father's...I'm not sure what it means).

The cliche is "I just can't win for losing"--definitely time for me to quit. BTW, for all you creators of software. We aren't all 20 years old and we can't all read microscopic print. It's fine to say, "Make the font smaller" but when it becomes so small that I can't make out what it says, it rather defeats the purpose, in my mind. Don't worry...some day you'll have my eyesight and finally understand how miserable it is to grow older in a heartless world.

Attached Link: http://www.pcbos.nl

Hmm.. Poser froze? I've not seen that happen yet, certainly not with the Font Changer. Strange. Let me know if EC looks OK now. Perhaps it couldn't write it's prefs to disk when Poser froze, you might have to repeat the Fonts Change. hope though you'll play a bit more today, I'm really curious about this thing :-) Paul Christiaan

Attached Link: http://www.pcbos.nl

:-) Dialyn either choose "times", with NO Size change, or just do a 1 point less. Click on "Reset Fonts" in the prefs menu to get back to square one, then try the above. If you are really unhappy, mail me a small image what it looks like, and I will think of a solution- I'm anything but heartless :-)) tech@pcbos.nl Yours truly, Paul Christiaan

Well, it sort of worked. It changed one window but the LightWorkShopII doesn't have a font change option in its preference so it remains skewed to one side. As you may be able to see in the screen capture I've added to this message.