I have made a simple prop in Cinema 4d which has 2 parts. I can import them into poser as objects easily enough, by exporting them as lightwave objects as two separate items, but I lose all my materials. Should I be exporting them as something else? I am also stumped as to how I save them as one object and still manage to move them independantly. If I import them together they stay as one inseparable object. What am I doing wrong? Hoping for answers. Shanna :-) ps, if it helps to see the model, it's the mascara bottle & brush I used in my Reflections on Mascara pic in the beginners gallery. I don't know how to link the page, sorry :-)

I don't have c4d, so I can't answer the first part. A for the second, if you want a single OBJ file but two seperate props to use it, you'll have to hack it a bit. in your prop file you'll want to have a figureResFile line like in a CR2, then use the same syntax a CR2 body part actor uses to refer to a specific group in a prop but instead of an actor block, use a prop block. Look at both a CR2 and a PP2 file and make a PP2 that works like a CR2 to get the geometry. (Don't try to write a PP2 from scratch, not many of us can do that B^)

Thank you for answering, but that went completely over my head :-) Is there an idiots guide to doing that somewhere? Shanna :-)

What do you want to do with the mascara? Just open and pull the brush straight out of the top of the bottle, or do you want to be able to move them both in 3-D space independently? For example; waving both hands with bottle in one and brush in the other. Of course that would result in mascara all over your ground plane }-)

I would like to have them as a prop that loads together as a closed bottle, but be able to move the brush which is attached to the bottles lid independantly (as in real life!) Have not yet figured out the 'liquid' component so it's a low mess situation. Shanna :-)

Shoshanna, You can do this 2 ways. You can save the 2 obj files as one prop and still move them independently, but it's a bit of a hassle. Select one of the two objects, (brush), click on properties, (ctrl-i), then 'set parent'. Now scroll down the list and find the other object (bottle), and select it as the parent. Bottle is now the parent of brush. Now click on 'add to library' (Props), and when you get the dialog box, click 'select subset'. Check both your props in the list and save as a smart-prop. Now when you re-open that prop, both pieces will be there. This is one way to do it, but it's a pain, especially if you're giving or selling it to other users. Second way is to make the 2 pieces a cr2 Figure. Not that difficult. With both pieces in poser, go to Menu/File/Export/Wavefront OBJ and in the 1st dialog box, click OK for single frame, then in the 2nd (the hierarchy box), make sure your 2 props are checked. Hit OK, type in a name for your obj, then in the last dialog box, UNCHECK EVERYTHING. This file needs to be stored somewhere in Runtime/Geometries/Whatever folder. Poser now needs a PHI file to create a figure. If you don't have PHI Builder (free app in Utilities), you can easily make a PHI file in notepad. This is what you type. objFile :Runtime:Geometries:YourFolder:YourFilename.obj 1 bottle_1 xyz >TAB space<2 brush_2 xyz bottle/brush - These names MUST correspond EXACTLY with the names of the 2 pieces you exported. >TAB space< This just means press the TAB key at the beginning of that line so it's indented. If the body part is parented to something, it's numbered as '2' and a TAB helps poser to identify it. Save that with a name and the extension .PHI. like prop.PHI, then open poser and go to Menu/File/Convert Hier File. Poser will ask you to name the new figure and a new entry will be added to New Figures in the library. NOTHING WILL APPEAR IN THE DOCUMENT WINDOW. Don't panic! Double-click on the new entry and it will open. You should now have a prop with a BODY and 2 body parts. All you need to do now is select each body part and turn off the 'bend' option, otherwise they go crazy when you move them. As to exporting, can't you export as obj or 3ds? Why Lightwave? Any problems, just yell.... mac

PS The liquid - Without knowing the shape of the bottle, I'm not cetain, but you could try taking the bottle shape you made and (using a copy of it), cut off the top 1/3. I don't know cinema, but a boolean would be the way to do this normally. Shrink it by about 5 - 10% and fit it inside the bottle with another material name so it can be colored separately. mac

Maclean.. I can't find that PHI Builder. Would like to try it, coz what you wrote sounded really easy L and I have some props I would like to convert to cr2's...

You can find Phi builder at www.Roy Riggs.com Shanna :-)

Hmm, I just write mine by hand. Please note: PHI builder, from my experience, does NOT deal well with CR2s created from actors stored in multiple files. For instance, if you want to put together three figures that share the same head, you can use the head as a seperate OBJ and refer directly to it on the line or the actor in the PHI file, and just have bodies in the other parts. PHI builder seems to hate this.

'Course, nothing beats hacking the figure together manually B^)

Okay, I tried to use Phi builder, but it said the file was too large so I made my own. This is exactly what I typed, spaces and all except for the tab bit and these are the exact names objFile :Runtime:Geometries:Shannas Make up:Mascara 1 mascara bottle_1 xyz >TAB space<2 mascara brush_2 xyz I saved it as a PHI, but when I try to convert heirarchy I get the following message Illegal gimbal order Should be: heirLevel (1,2..) name rot Order (xyz, zyx et..) Well, as far as I can see, it is in that order. I don't know what a gimbal is, but it sounds nautical. HELP Shanna :-) I'm having fun though!

objFile :Runtime:Geometries:Shannas Make up:Mascara 1 mascara bottle_1 xyz >TAB space<2 mascara brush_2 xyz This should be objFile :Runtime:Geometries:Shannas Make up:Mascara 1 mascara bottle_1 xyz >TAB space<2 mascara brush_1 xyz Each prop in poser is named 'whatever_1', then if you add a second one of that same prop it's called 'whatever_2'. So both your pieces should be called '_1'. If that doesn't work, just call the pieces mascara bottle and mascara brush, with no '_1' after them. Because if the pices weren't saves to the library, they won't yet have a '_1' after them, until poser adds it. PHI Builder... Well, I use it to find the obj and make a PHI, then I open the PHI in notepad and set my own parenting, rotation, etc. I just use it to write out the body parts in text, 'cause I'm too lazy. LOL. shanna - You may want to set a rotation order of yxz for props. It usually works better for non-organic figures. Gimbal lock is what you get when 2 rotation channels are at odds with one another and the thing spins without rotating. I don't want to get into this now, but use yxz and you won't get it. mac

Hello Shoshanna, Spaces are not allowed in group names (in the obj file and in the PHI file). So, your group names should be for example "mascarabottle_1" and "mascarabrush_2". The PHI converter expects the rotation order (gimbal order, the "xyz") after the second space in the line. (BTW, the leading Tab and space isn't required). When you fix the group names in the PHI file, be sure to adjust the group names in the "Mascara.obj" file, too. And be sure to delete the "Mascara.rsr" file (in folder "Shannas Make up"), so that Poser uses the new group names in the "Mascara.obj" file, when you run the hierarchy converter again.

shanna, I just realised something important. When you export your 2 pieces as one .obj file, make SURE you only check the 1st option!! See the post below for the full procedure. mac

OK At the risk of repeating myself, for anyone else who has spare hair to tear out and wants to try making figures from poser props, here's a copy of a reply I made to a post some months ago. The subject was 'making your own figures from existing poser props'. Part of this is what I told shanna, but here's the full version for those who don't have their own props. >>>>>> starts here >>>>>> Yes, what you're asking is possible, but it would be easier if the props were combined to make a figure, rather than a prop. It's not THAT difficult to do. I'll try to run through the basic steps of making a simple box figure with lid. 1. Open the poser box prop and scale it to the length of your box, using the X and Y scale dials. Reduce the Zscale (thickness or depth) to about 5%. Do this with 4 boxes for front, back, top and bottom. 2. Do the same again with another 2 boxes for the sides. 3. Position all the boxes so they form a cube, and if possible, make a note of the box numbers and where they are. This will help you later to know which ones are which. 4. Go to Menu/File/Export/Wavefront OBJ and in the 1st dialog box, click OK for single frame, then in the 2nd (the hierarchy box), make sure your 6 boxes are all checked. Hit OK, type in a name for your obj, then in the last dialog box, UNCHECK EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE 1ST OPTION (include body part names in polygon groups). You now have your box obj saved. This file needs to be stored somewhere in Runtime/Geometries/Whatever folder. Poser now needs a PHI file to create a figure. If you don't have PHI Builder (free app in Utilities), you can easily make a PHI file in notepad. This is what you type. objFile :Runtime:Geometries:YourFolder:YourFilename.obj 1 box_1 xyz 1 box_2 xyz 1 box_3 xyz 1 box_4 xyz 1 box_5 xyz 1 box_6 xyz Save that with a name and the extension .PHI. like box.PHI, then open poser and go to Menu/File/Convert Hier File. Poser will ask you to name the new figure and a new entry will be added to New Figures in the library. NOTHING WILL APPEAR IN THE DOCUMENT WINDOW. Don't panic! Double-click on the new entry and it will open. You should now have a box with a BODY and 6 body parts (boxes 1 - 6). All you need to do now is select each body part and turn off the 'bend' option. You can also rename them to front, back, lid, sides, etc. To make the lid posable. 1. Select the 'lid' body part and go to Menu/Window/Joint Editor. 2. You'll see 2 crosses on the lid, a green and a red one. Use the different cameras (especially Top) to get the correct view, and either use the mouse to move the center of the green cross (the cursor turns to a circle), or type the values into the Joint Editor. What you want to do is move the green cross in line with the back of the lid. Then use the Xrotate dial to raise the lid. You may have to mess around to get it perfect, but it's not difficult. Once you've done all that, resave your figure (in Characters, remember) with it's new joints and it's done. You can also turn it sideways to have an upright box with opening door. The box will accept simple textures because the poser boxes are already texture-mapped, so you don't need to bother mapping it. If you have uv mapper (free - www.uvmapper.com), you can make more complex maps, or even assign different materials to each side of the box. Whew! OK. Those are the basic steps. It sounds a lot written out like this, but it's actually very easy once you've done it a few times. And from there on, you can get into more complicated things. Any poser props can be combined to make interesting things if you take the time to learn the basic steps. Also, try www.anim8or.com for a great, free 3d model maker. I use it almost every day for making morphs for furniture and things. It's very useful. Steve Shanks had a good tutorial on morph-making in anim8or. mac

Thanks VK. Yes, spaces are not allowed in obj names. 'BTW, the leading Tab and space isn't required' Not quite sure what you mean by that, VK. The TAB space IS necessary because the brush is parented to the bottle. mac By the way, VK, how are you? My furniture is getting really cool now... and with less errors too. LOL.

Hi mac, The PHI works as well without leading TAB, so you could write: 1 mascarabottle xyz 2 mascarabrush xyz 3 moremascara xyz without TABS. The starting number defines the hierarchy level. I'm fine, thanks. And looking forward for some more beta testing : )

ummmm what do you mean that phi builder said the file was too large? Im gonna assume thats a 'generic' error that it generates. Certainly you cant have created a bottle and brush that is huge in file size? btw, one more thing that noone has said you can not have body parts that are greater than 16 characters in length. Poser wont use them. BT

Just as a note -- as no one has mentioned it -- the xyz part stands for the rotation order. This should be adjusted as you see fit. For a bottle, I'd recommend yxz or yzx (either or). The first letter should be the twist. The last letter should be the non-twist rotation most likely to be rotated the farthest. The middle letter is the reamaining one. A bottle would 'twist' around its Y axis, so put y first. The other two rotations are equally likely, so they don't matter (though I'd go with yzx personally, as I see tipping this sideways more common than forward-back, while a soda bottle I'd go with yxz because it's usually tilted towards the drinklers mouth, which will usually be facing the camera).

For readability, I avoid using runtogethernames. Sometimes I use runTogetherButCapitalisedNames, but I prefer underscore_seperated_names Along the same lines, in your OBJect, don't use 'Two Word Material,' because Poser will only show 'Two'. Use 'TwoWordMaterial' or 'Two_Word_Material'. This is important especially if you have thngs like: 'Chrome Light' and 'Chrome Dark' as Poser will end up with only 'Chrome'.

BTW I use two or three spaces instead of tabs, because with a complex heirarchy figure - a snake, tentacle, or Feather Boa for instance -- he page can get pretty hard to read with wrap on, and pretty wide to scroll without it. Tabs are like 8 characters wide or something in notepad (in vim you can set it and convert between and even autoindent, so I'll sometimes use tabs there because I can resize them)

'The PHI works as well without leading TAB' Do you know, I didn't ever know that? I always added these stupid TABs when I work in notepad, simply because PHI Builder uses them. Good. One thing less to worry about. Thanks dodger, I did advise shanna to use yxz, but I couldn't be bothered going into the full gory details of why. I generally use yxz, at least for most furniture, since things like doors and windows open with the Yrot, but as you say, a coke bottle would be different. At the worst, she can always drag the dials around in notepad or cr2Edit. BT, I wondered about that 'file size too big' error too. I've never had it myself and it's hard to imagine how many body parts you'd need for the file to be too big. I've done 80+ with no problems. Maybe it's just a code phrase for 'Piss off! I can't read the damn obj' LOL. mac