I know its kind of cool to make clothes for the latest v3 model but some of us here don't want to switch over to V3 for some extremely practical reasons, namely memory and resource issues. For example, that wonderful V2/V3 hybrid posted is a God send and I thank the makers of it. even this model, with just the expressions injected takes my original figures from around 4 megs to 13 megs. That's with custom FBMs to eliminate the dozens or so I don't use. The full V3 is around like 57 megs. The point is some of us are not ready to abandon V2 yet and I personally don't see a lot of advantages of the V3 body over V2 for about 95% of the work I do. I'd hate the clothes resources to dry up because of the novelty to make V3 clothes. I think the community kind of pushed itself forward into V2 leaving posette behind. This I could accept since V2 is such a huge jump above Posette. But I don't see the same jump for V3 over V2 and am worried V2 will be slowly abandoned. V3 creates draw backs and limitations on resources that V2 doesn't and its almost a penalty to use her for more than a single figure render. Just don't abandon use V2 users. V2 isn't dead.

There is no scientific explaination for what I'm about to say, but I swear it's true: Even though V3 takes up more memory/resources/etc I experience Poser crashing/freezing about 75% less when using her. (Compared to V2). -WTB

I have completely the opposite experience.

I've Had no crashes what so ever, I'm with Mason, I absolutely possively see no advantage on V3, and the outrage of buying the figure and then the morphs separately is ridiculous, I'm sticking with V2 all tha way.
FIGHT THE V3 POWER!!!

V3 is better, and the ability to add/subtract morphs as you need them/don't need them is brilliant. I'm just waiting for Blackhearted to re-shape her a bit and then she'll be perfect. -WTB

There might be one reason for this William_the_Bloody. Victoria and Vicky 2 and Mike 1 and 2 had many 4+ sided polygons in the mesh. For instance there are two polygons in the eye-backs of 32 sides in V2 (if memory serves me right). In all there were some 40 or more of these beasts which caused many problems with other modelling programs. And while it seems Poser 4 could handle these, it may not have liked them much. Who knows what goes on in the mangled Poser code?
On the other hand V3 is clean of these messy polygons, only having 3 and 4 sided ones. First thing I did was to check the mesh out with UV Mapper Pro after buying it.
Maybe the answer?

Regards
STORM

Does anyone know why V3 uses more resources? It would seem that if you are only using the injection poses you want/need it should use less than the full V2 character...but that is not the case. It does use more resources and is definitely slower to render. I've not experienced crashes with either frankly. I agree with WTB about the morph injection....it really is a good concept and should require less of a drain on ones system. But maybe the injection process itself is what drains the resources? Just curious! As for clothing....I need more "practical" clothing for both of them! :)

Even though I prefer V3, that's one of my complaints...the vendors aren't doing much V3 work. I'm not saying there's no V3 products, but the overwhelming majority is for V2....I'm getting the impression that making clothing for V3 is a little harder than for V2 or V1.....why go to more work if they'll still buy Vicki clothes? So you have nothing to be concerned about...and don't slam me, I did say there are V3 products, just not as many....:>0

Why on earth would anyone load all the morphs into V3 anyway? If you only inject the morphs you really need and want, the file size is much smaller than V2's. Plus V3 is definitely superior. She poses BEAUTIFULLY and her morphs are very versatile.

Mason, i'm with you on this one. hence, V3-Hybrid. I'm not going to invest in a whole new wardrobe! As it is now, V2 has more clothes then my Girlfriend! But, i Love V3's Increased Versatility in the Head! I'm working on some clothes. And they will be fitted for V1/2. I'm sure some will be Pleased, others will raise their Fists in rage! Can't please everyone! :-) Marco

Really folks, I have a 600mhz PIII with 640 megs of regular old SDRAM (considerably paltry compared to the setups of some of you...LOL), and I have absolutely no problems with V3 whatsoever. I love her body shape, the ease with which she morphs, and even the injection (which I hated at first BTW). I still use V2 only because I'm determined that I won't abandon her, because I paid for her dammit; her and all the tons of stuff I bought for her...LOL. But the truth is I really prefer V3 and find myself using her ALMOST exclusively anymore. Laurie

I can definitely tell you that clothes for V3 are harder to get to work. Her joint parameters are so different from V2 that it makes it hard to conform some things very well. The clothing mesh has to be cut pretty close to V3 or they won't pose very well. Anything really loose fitting is really hard. I have been working on a big, baggy t-shirt for her and getting the joints to work is a real PITA. I'm trying to make V2 and V3 versions of everything I've been working on. As far as resources, I would rather work with V3. I have less problems using her than with V2. She is easier to pose and I've found that she actually renders faster in my animations than V2. I haven't had a crash with V3. The only thing that drives me nuts is the empty parameter dials and having to run the file though DialCleaner every time. Here's a quick pic of the latest stuff I've been working on for V2. I don't have anything rendered of the V3 version. Ed

Laurie - Try a scene with 2 or 3 V3s and 4 or 5 Mikes then see what happens. And add clothes on top of that. For every injection on V3 you need MTs on the clothes to make them fit. As for the poly situation. I actually ran my mesh through Max and outputted as all triangles for V2. She looks fine but doesn't crash due to multi vertex polygons.

V3 is a better mesh with better joints. Out of the box, she puts V2 to shame. The injection process, though quirky, is a nice touch. Any problems with her may just be that she is too much woman for Poser. If you have P5, most V2 clothing can be made to fit V3 somewhat easily! You can get the fit in the cloth room, then if you want, make it into a conformer in the setup room. I have converted Judy, V2, and even Posette clothing to conform to V3. The group names need to remain when you export your obj, and in some cases, some regrouping may be neccesary. I haven't tried the cloth room to make V3 clothing morphs, but in theory it seems possible. Even with the morph packs, she is hardly more expensive than V2. The added features and quality more than make up for the few extra dollars.

Mark

i have to say, i like her a whole bunch. and, i am on a paltry machine....my good one got stolen last year. working for myself, i have not been able to buy a new one, yet. she works fine, but, that is because i only inject the morphs i need. i like to make my own stuff. i have made a couple of things for v3, but, have not spent the time conforming them. not like v2, where you can just use an existing cr2 from another outfit. i notice that the cr2s for the v3 clothing is a whole lot larger...and, more ram intensive.

Laurie, you think 640megs of SDRAM is paltry, I only have 128 (LOL) and I haven't had more than a couple crashes, and I that was only when I was using a high res hair object. V3 hasn't really rendered any slower for me than V2. I've rendered her with Mike in the same scene with no problems. I really love the great facial features on her. Melanie

I don't have any problems rendering V3 but I can't get the darn hair for her to render--even on a low res Vicky 2. Maybe I'll master the hair room in Poser 5 some day. I use both V2 and V3 but I love V3's head morphs. I even dust Stephanie off on occasion. I always forget how pretty she is. So far, PoserWorld seems to be the best source for V3 clothing that's actually practical in the real world.

Amen to that pigfish!:) (the Poser World comment)

Umm, my only question is this: Why is the original poster worried about abandoning V2 clothing for V3? Aren't there, and correct if I'm totally insane here, like a BILLION pieces of clothing for V2 at this stage? I mean, you can find enough shoes for V2 to make Imelda Marcos envious. I'm not saying that one is better than the other, just that V3 has maybe 20 or 50 pieces of clothes right now and V2 has a K-Mart, Walmart, Abercrombies&Finch, JCPenny, several storehouses and a fleet of oil tankers with cargo for clothes. And your complaining? Hmmm... BYS

I can't speak for Mason, but for one thing, styles change! :) A girl has to have new Duds.....can't keep wearing the same old fashions, ya know! :) My issue is not the amount, but the styles. What's out there and available is lovely, but my Vickies can only wear just so many bathing suits, catsuits, short tops and other tight fitting and exotic things. I'll agree there are a lot of shoes....but there are not a lot of blouses, blazers, sweatshirts and sweatpants and business suits. I'm looking forward to EdW's stuff....jeans, shirts, cowboy boots and sloppy sweatshirts is exactly what I'd like to see more of. And the perfect suit.....see Steve Shanks latest V3 business suit at Poser World....now that's how the real people in my real world dress.

I like the joints on V3, but I do still use V2 and Steph as well. I agree though that there needs to be stuff done for both, as lots of folks still use V2 exclusively. I can't wait for Blackhearted to get her (V3), reshaped, that will be an awesome character. Marque

I agree that V3 has better joints and bodypart groups - though making clothes for her is trickier. She certainly is a denser mesh - don't know if that's actually better with regards to Poser. I think the same could be done with a less dense (V2 or Stephanie) body - improve joints, groups. Will Poser's memory management (not releasing unused textures and so on), any memory you can spare is an advantage. I'm running an Athlon 1.33 with DDR Ram that is quite optimized and loading V3 and some clothing or support figures will make Poser chug about. One of the things I do like about V3 is the ability to create younger male characters and that some effort has been made to create V3 male clothing. I think the concept of an androgenous figure that can take on a male or female appearance is more practical since you can concentrate your efforts on improving and customizing a single figure. This is some of what I like about Stephanie - she and Mike can share morphs and texture maps. More practical to me.

Steve Shanks at Poserworld has begun to make a V2 version of everything he makes for V3. Nice stuff too. Money well spent. Laurie

When ever something new comes out it is inevitable that there will be a certain amount of drop off in the old stuff. When CDs came out there were less LPs released, when GameCube came out there were titles for it and less and less for the N64. That, my friends, is life. Personally I adore Vicky 3 and find her far superior to Vicky 1/2. I guess it all boils down to what you want, what you can use and what is available.

BYS...I'd sure like to know where there are 20-50 pieces of clothes for V3...and I agree with Laure, if it were not for the great Steve Shanks and Poserworld, my V3 would be naked still...and best of all, Steve makes "realistic" clothes, not pinup clothes...so we have diversity...

I think the way V3 looks compared to V2 will always be a personal opinion for the most, but my personal opinion is she is worlds above V1 or 2, infact a greater improvement than V1 or was over the p4 woman, we are now at the point of photo realism within poser because of her..as for joints shes better but but not a great deal coz i think the way poser does joints holds us back more than the model itself.....i find making clothes for her much much easier, i moved to using pwizard when it first came out (for creating the cr2) and using that on a V3 item i would say at least 50% of the time there is no need to adjust the joints where as on V1 or 2 you still need to fix every joint, also if you make an item for V3 it only takes a few minutes to adjust for V2 (plus cutting time) as its only her armpits, back and crotch (for pants) that stick through...As Elgyfu points out, things change, backward compatabilty is good but only to a point, i think we may be almost at the point where it could hold us back from huge improvents in the software, the cr2 is a good example...of course all this is a personal opinion, one mans candy is another mans poison but if i win the lottery i'll be buying all PW members a copy of V3 thats how much i like her ;o).....Steve

Dizzie we have 29 zips for V3, making about 33 or so outfits, not counting skirts and tops as two items ;o)..Steve

V2, V3 and Posette all have their uses. I don't recommend to abandon any of them.

I'm guilty Phatast...I haven't used Posette since V1 came out ;o). Laurie

I doubt V2 will be forgotten right away. Let's not forget that some of the people who make clothes prefer her and maybe don't even own V3 yet, so they're not going to give up making things for her. However, you see very little, if anything, being created for the P4 Woman (Posette) anymore. Everything eventually goes away, no matter how much people resist it. Someday, Vicki 3 will be old stuff and something new will take her place. It's just the way it is. Melanie

PoserWorld definitly has it figured out right... why just put out an outfit for V2 or V3 when it's not that difficult to put out a version for both in one package. That way you don't limit your potential market and can make everyone happy.

The future is V3. ;) I believe that Steve from Poserworld wishes everyone had V3 as it is. Somewhere around here he mentioned that he loves V3 and if he won the lottery he'd give every member of Poserworld a V3... :D

All this doesn't answer the question asked by Mason (and to which I'm waiting an answer before considering buying V3) : How easy is it to make an image with 3 V3, 1 Mike, all clothed with several conforming clothes, and all with custom facial and body shapes, posed into a prop-rich scene ? Compiler.

What question? There really wasn't a question, it was a statement (and plea, I guess). The second message was still sort of a comment. As for using multiple complex figures, my solution is LW or C4D. ;0) Not only can they handle much more complexity with less bogdown, but rendering times are ridiculously fast compared to Poser (I rendered a 1024x768 image with a Don character using a high-res texture in 9 seconds in C4D - try that in Poser). I'm working on a plugin for extracting the bones from the Poser character files to rig them in C4D. Greenbriar Studios has already released a LW plugin that does the same. At some point, this will make using Poser somewhat moot, except that you will still need to own Poser to use the plugins. BYS

That sounds really interesting. Is C4D expensive ? (I mean, the basic plus what is considered essential plug-ins) ?

Beat Your Soul, Would rigging allow for JCM's? This is an important "trick" used in the new V3. Just curious.

C4D is not inexpensive, but the base app is about $600. The two modules worth having besides the base app are Advanced Render and, especially for animation, MOCCA (Soft IK and easier interface to rigging), which are $500 and $400 respectively. It's actually cheaper to get the XL Bundle for $1700, since you also get Net Render, Pyrocluster, and Thinking Particles modules (saving several hundred dollars). If you can live without radiosity, caustics, and depth of field in renders, you can avoid Advanced Render. As you can still do bone rigging, IK, etc. without MOCCA, it is optional as well. But, and the big "But!", features of MOCCA may be necessary for including morphs into C4D (not certain about this yet). LightWave is still the same price, $1600. Netherworks, I hope to implement morphs and ERC after bone rigging. These Poser features are mostly supported within C4D (in their own forms), but they are not as easy to translate between Poser and C4D as I'd like. :) BYS