Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1253681

Bottom line, don't worry, we are not looking to sue anybody (and Daz won't either), just respect me, be creative with me in a nice way,... You have no clue at all, naked with a sword ... that will be a standard here... but out in the "Wilds" of cyberspace the things you will be doing not to mention the "things" ...errrrrrrrr that you will be partnered to will have RESPECT written all over them.

Niles, I agree. I'd rather be waving a sword next to a scaley dragon anyday than stuck in a flower basket with a mousemouse and toonkitty! :shudder: Did you know that sugar in large doses is toxic? Carolly

I am sorry SWAMP....I can't seem to get this out of my head...I read all the posts and all the concerns....and I still want to say..... DUH.....DUH.....and DUH....Come On! You know and I know someone probably already is doing damage with her image....we know someone will go and run with this in an unflatering situtation. We can't be this ignorant to these facts are we? No, so my question still stands, if you are concerned....why would you do it, knowing full well this IS going to happen. Now if you were not concerned then fine....I know this sounds awful coming from me....but man I hate it when we all act so dumb and nieve? It kind of reminds me of the dumb woman that goes into a dark room by herself, knowing there is possibility of getting hurt, why would you do that? AHHHHHHHHH!!! I don't mean to sound like a Anna-Marie basher, cause I am not....just come on!...Sharen

Photoshop users wreak havoc on the likenesses of celebrities all the time... without tools such as Poser and DAZ models. They probably don't even know what a EULA is, much less care. But hopefully the Poser community will respect AMG's wishes.

No offense tha birdman, I hope the Poser community will respect it also, but I don't think that is a factual statement with what I have seen. Doubt it will happen....disrespect, yep that will happen. Sharen

"But hopefully the Poser community will respect AMG's wishes." Some will, some will not.Waving a sword next to a scaley dragon or even stuck in a flower basket with a mousemouse and toonkitty... but when you read in the newsgroups where someone is looking for a Morphing Genitalia Prop for "Koshini" you began to have doubts.

I guess I just feel that sometimes when you attach a legal EULA it is like saying "I dare you...." and for sure someone will. In my heart I would love to say, "no nothing will be done because everyone here and in this wide world of internet would never do such a thing" but in my mind I know different. Am I in such a minority that believes this will happen? .....also (I am going to regret this statement), maybe the public exposure is what she wants? I am sorry, but why else to this....really I am trying to be as kind as possible....I do appologize again...I will shut up now. Sharen

.....well one more thing...it was like this morning when Irene posted a beautiful picture and one nasty nasty little verman had to make such a horrible comment....yeah right, there will be respect. Sharen

I suppose what is respectful and what is not is all a matter of individual opinion anyway. I didn't intend to offend any user's of photoshop, just pointing out what can be done with a photo of Anna Marie and some photos from an "adult" website. As for Koshini Genitals, wierd but interesting. I tend not to focus on an artist's subject matter as much as I do the talent and creativity that is used in producing a work.

....sorry...one more thing....Carolly, you know me...I am not for cutesie all the time, I like cute, but I like almost all art, if done with taste, I do not offend easy, it is just I don't like being ignoranat....they (DAZ and Anna Marie) must be aware that this will happen right? If so....tell me WHY DO IT IF YOU THE ITSY BITSY CONCERNED? Sharen

Sharen, I see what you're saying, but I don't think you quite understand AMG's point of view. She, (or anyone who poses nude for that matter), is probably not concentrating on what people do with her clone at home in private, but IN PUBLIC. Let's face it, if you pose nude in Playboy, you wouldn't want to even BEGIN to imagine what people are thinking when they look at your picture. You just don't think about it. But when someone publicly posts what they would want to do to you, or posts an image of whatever depraved way they see you, then it becomes an issue, simply because it IS public. I respect her immensely for agreeing to this project, and can understand her concerns. Digital cloning is clearly something that will become more widespread in future, but if the clone in question was Ronald Reagan, no one would be worried about the nudity aspect. In fact, the EULA would be begging people NOT to show him nude. LOL. The restrictions would be to do with political satire or unseemly use of RR in images. Since AMG is supposedly a pretty blonde (I've never seen her, so I can't say), her concerns are more 'physical'. This, for AMG, is really just an extension of whatever worries she had when she first began posing nude. But, of course, being a well-known person, she has to try to take care of her image. One of the many problems of being famous. Of course, being Dutch, she will have a very different attitude to nudity than most Americans (for example). I've been in Holland often and can say, without hesitation, that the Dutch are some of the nicest and most easy-going people in Europe. And most of them could care less about being seen naked. mac

tha_birdman ....no offense taken...Sharen :-)

you see me making spelling mistakes....must be I am excited about this topic....sorry about the spelling everyone...Sharen PS: Mike is having a cow over here.....he says".....darling...it is time to shut up now...." he is cute, to bad he can't contain me. LOL

thanks for drawing my attention to this issue - just posted my opinion on it in the other thread. i rarely look through the marketplace either here or at daz anymore - just create my own items in my own little world, to see what goes on and the direction towards which the marketplaces are headed depresses me though. seems like theres more emphasis placed lately on media, brand names and marketing than there is on the actual product.

I totally agree ! Sharen

Well, blackhearted, I do agree with you to a certain extent, but you have to remember that we now live in a global internet economy where things can have a value that goes beyond the traditional boundaries of location or culture. Nowadays, anyone who is famous, has to take steps to protect their image and it's 'value'. Say some dork decides to promote his business website by adding a pic of the front page of AMG doing it with a donkey, all made from the DAZ clone. All he needs to do is add her name as a keyword (along with 'sex') and he gets hits. Whether it's fair or not is beside the point. He's using her fame, name and image to further his own business interests. Really, when it comes down to it, if you think the EULA is too restrictive, don't buy the product. I won't buy it myself, but that's just because I have no interest in it. I bought v3 to find out what Readscript was, used her once, and never looked at her again. But that's me... mac

Well, see now, I'm not concerned about whether or not the mesh and texture is going to be used "respectfully" or not...in fact I could care less. For me at least, it boils down to not spending (US)40 dollars for a morph and texture that I don't have complete license to use out of the box for anything I want without having to negotiate with anyone or worry about whether someone thinks I defamed or damaged them.

thats the thing. no offense to the creator - but for $30-40 you can get two textures/characters here in the rosity store or at RDNA that completely blow that thing away. ive looked at the promos and it isnt that well done - the v3 highlight/contour maps are EONS ahead of it in terms of quality and render appeal. i saw 3 seams in the AMG promo images for gods sake. the only thing selling that product is the name attached to it. if you took off the name, people wouldnt even give it a second glance. with the growing trend of marketing schemes taking precedence over actual quality content, this doesnt come as a huge suprise. if this was the extent of the issue, i probably wouldnt have said a single word and just sighed and moved on. but the fact that not only is this a massive marketing ploy, but it has an unprecedented, rediculously restrictive EULA attached to it - rendering it virtually unuseable - upsets me greatly. i dont want this to start a new 'trend' of such products or such fucked up licenses in a marketplace thats already going straight to hell.

Who the heck is Anna-Marie Goddard anyway? :-)

http://www.annamariegoddard.com "Playboy's 40th anniversary Playmate- and Dutch Playmate of the Year's Official Website"

Thanks for the info...no wonder I didn't know who she was. :-)

Acording to AnnaMaria the EULA is being revised, wait and see on that one. Dan Farr of Daz stated in the other thread that the 'clone' was walking a mine field and the promo text does state that this is the first and that Daz wants to see where this goes. Marketing ploy? well, um, yea. could also be called inovative, cutting edge etc. AnnaMaria makes money from her image, so the commerial aspects are that she doesn't want anything hurting her 'image', meaning she doesn't want her lively hood hurt by this. I can fully understand that. As for the texture maps I didn't see any seams showing and the textures looked as good as any that I had bought from SteffZ (my high standard others may disagree). Is the package priced to high? The market will determine if that's the case. The package the way it is sold currently is quite usable with the current EULA if your a hobbiest and want naked Anna in a temple with a sword, just don't try and sell a calander using her name (understandable). Only real problem I have is if I want to do a calander and sell if using the Anna Clone package but not label it as Anna or imply any link TO Anna then I can't with the current EULA. Time will tell, I'm sure that in the future more and more of these kinds of issues will come up, it's the here to stay, and Daz did it 1st for the puter (Dina was 1st, but the wright bros didn't fly 1st either haha!). waiting patiently to see how it plays out.

"could also be called inovative, cutting edge etc" nothing new at all (although im sure daz would like to think so, its another great selling point) - this has been done for years, both here and at other marketplaces by both companies like DSI and individuals. just two years ago DSI's dina went along the same concept, althout without the lame EULA. "As for the texture maps I didn't see any seams showing and the textures looked as good as any that I had bought from SteffZ" im not the greatest fan of stefy, she can tell you that herself, but even i will admit that her textures blow this one away, hands down. theyre not in the same league at all. in fact this tex looks remarkable similar to the vicky 2 hi-res light texture maps, especially around the face and legs.

I didn't know who she was either and now I wish I didn't....LOL

I have nothing against Anna-Mare Goddard, but I wish DAZ wouldnt waste any more of their time and treasure on one-note products like this. Id rather see DAZ create more morphs for V3 which I would find far more useful.

"Id rather see DAZ create more morphs for V3 which I would find far more useful." I agree!

forgot to copy post since i took too long, timed out and lost it, now must retype from memory

screw that ill just paraphrase...;)

turn me into a 3d character, put me naked in a temple with a sword up my hiney and i wouldnt give a damn. but thats not everyone, not everyone would agree, and im not a celebrity, and apparently celebrities have more rules. I dont see how such a 3d render of my skin or body morph would do any harm to my reputation or image. i see how a photo of me doing somehting lewd and down rigth dirty would, but not a cg image for cryin out loud. but thats not everyone. AMG has the right to tell us what we can and cant do with her texture/morphs, that doesnt mean everyone will listen, your right, nor does it mean we have to agree and buy it.

The main thing i was talking about in my post that just disappeared of the face of the planet, is DAZ. Gabe is right- i dont see how this is so new and creative and special. for them to DO, yes, for us to see, no. But further more, its not a product i would buy anyway. It says human replica, digital clone, blah blah...im lookin at these promos and i see a pleather Barbie. that means NO offense to AMG, we all know the texture turnout has nothing to do with her, that was DAZ's doing. this does NOT look like a realistic human character to me, they are telling me it is, i dont see it. Nor do i see how it is a "clone" of AMG... im lookin at her photos and lookin at these promos and im sorry but i dont see the slightest resemblence. I would never in a million years recognize this as AMG. it could be anyone for all i know.

DAZ is askin if they should continue these "digital clones" in the future. If they are all gonna be of similar quality then i say no. I think DAZ has put out better character pack than this before, and i see this as a disappointment because of that. The texture doesnt seem very hi res, i made a reference to pleather, its very plasticated to me, the details seem washed out somehow in places where it needsit, or overly detailed liek the lips, i dont think thats very realistic looking. maybe the promos are just bad, i dont know. They have done better before, there are better textures here at Rosity, this "clone" looks nothing like AMG, so i fail to see why they think this is so special. i honestly believe that without the brand name there wouldnt be much to sell on this. this "clone" to me just looks like a dial morphed vicki, with what could have been a default low res vicki texture, yet i like the defult v3 texture they made a LOT better.

I would expect to be blown away by realism and resemblance, if this were to be such a "digital clone" and im not. I think they could have done a lot better. i would think that by their reputation and the respect that i have for DAZ they would have done better. i would think that with their staff and technical as well as material resources they should have done better.

so no, if this is what we are to expect as "digital clones" from DAZ, no i dont think they should do any more. and if the celebrity subject had a better idea of what the quality of a photo-realistic texture should be, or the potential at least (judging by the realistic textures we have seen around) that the celebrity would feel the same way. so i dont think its up to par. i mean if this were a TRUE digital clone of AMG, of course we'd be clamoring for it. look at the characters made by the people whove done the Final Fantasy and Anamatrix movies, THAT is 3d realism. THAT blows me away.

maybe they dont have those kind of technical resources, but we've all seen what you can do with Vicki in ther 3rd party apps... i in no way mean to sound biased or liek im pushing Gabe here, but i see how he does his stuff so i am intimately familiar with his products more than i am anyone elses (which is why im gonna use specifically him as an example), so lets take the Mil girl for example... then look at what he did with her to make Nia. I am not the only person who sees that as a superbly realistic body. That wasnt done using body scanners or any sort of hi-tech equipment. I see other promos by people here whove also used 3rd party apps to make amazingly realistic bodies, and they dont have that type of equipment either. So if all you guys can make such realism with our normal every day 3D apps, i would certainly expect more from DAZ.

Vicki, ok i can see where shed have to be a generalization of the average female model to appease the general population and base use. but i think all that should be put aside if you are making a clone of someone.. it should be the relative height, weight, body style of the subject, and i dont see this clone as lookin anythign liek AMG's body, judging by her own photos. it still looks like vicki to me. i dunno, i would assume a body scan of her would produce something more realistic, and if not, then it could be tweaked, just as you all do with vicki in your 3rd party apps, which takes nothing away from vicki's functionality, just a loss in versatility as she wouldnt fit vicki's clothes right?if they are goin for realism who cares if she can fit vickis clothes. im sure someone will make AMG clothes to fit ;) but hey maybe thats why this body looks more like Vicki than it does AMG. which gives us a false clone, that defies the purpose of being a clone. lol ;) if i was a clone, i certainly wouldnt fit vicki's clothes now would i? so poo thats not realism to me.

so much for paraphrasing ;) sorry!!! ;)

anyway you get my drift and ive bored you enough..lets see about this new EULA...

omg do i get carried away or what?!? again, my apologies ;)

Not really Rio. Letting out some steam does a body good. I just don't like the terms "restrictive creativity" or "controlled art". It's so oxymoronic. Essentially that's what this EULA does in my opinion.

lol there should be a EULA for the EULA... or some sort of agreement before the product is made, that the model understands and agrees to the NORMAL EULA, or doesnt do it. no changes will be allowed to be made after. afterall who's doing who the favor? that would solve the prob right there methinks.

Artistic egos are about the worst type there are. Sheesh. I DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FUSS ABOUT THE EULA IS ALL ABOUT. If you play with her face a bit so it's not recognizable as her you can do anything you want. How many of you use the default Vicky3 face? Huh? Snort.

ummm then what is the point in buying the 'clone' package if you HAVE to change it to comply with the EULA. THAT is what some of the fuss is about.

You don't HAVE to change the face unless you're doing something naughty and unflattering. Big deal.

The point is I can spend 40 bucks on DSI's digital clone of Dina Vannoni and use her right out of the box for anything I want to, naughty, nice, or commercial and not have to worry about EULA's, negotiations, or permissions.

Read the EULA again! The EULA states you can't:

"(3) sell any portion of rendered output that contains any portion of the 3-D Model(s) without prior written consent of Anna-Marie Goddard, her attorney(s), or other legal business representation."

Now, that does not say you can use the mesh in commercial products if "you play with her face a bit so it's not recognizable"...it says you can't sell any portion of an image (rendered output) that used that mesh (any portion of the 3-D Model(s)) to create the image. That's the only way you can interpret that clause.

I hope what DAZ get's out of this "fuss" is that the next time the decide to do a realistic human mesh, they'll do it with someone that doesn't need to restrict the EULA except to protect the mesh from distribution.

{Acording to AnnaMaria the EULA is being revised, wait and see on that one.} Um, what's with the changing of EULA's after the product has been released? We saw this with Poser 5 and now we see it with the "digital AMG clone". Is it the newest trend to create a highly restrictive EULA until people complain about it, then make a new, less restrictive one? Don't CL and DAZ (and AMG) have teams of attorneys to look over a EULA? If I buy a product now, does the old EULA (that comes with the product) or new EULA (that comes with an update that I may or may not get) apply to me? If the new EULA says I can't make a render with the object, but I don't have that EULA, does it apply to me?

"omg do i get carried away or what?!? again, my apologies ;)" Rio "Letting out some steam does a body good." JVRenderer ROFLMAO. Yeah, right, till you wind up needing open heart surgery from getting all steamed over nothing worth getting steamed about. Really people, I've never read such a silly thread in all my born days. Those who do not want the product need not buy it. I'm not sure what is funniest, posing nude then having the unmitigated gall to worry over what folks are going to do with your 3d body, or getting all heated up over whether Daz has made a business mistake or not. If they have, their balance books will show it come Monday, so to speak ;) And then you won't have anymore clones forthcoming to pick on or molest ;)

Usually EULAs are updated to say that they or parts of the new one over ride old or existing EULAs. So if you bought, you'd be covered under updated as the old parts would not apply then. That's how it worked with CL updated one anyway, have to see on the Daz one. The old EULA for AMG clone package goes farther than just commercial use. you can't use renders for personal posting. the EULA really is limiting, probably why they are changing it. spit - go read it again, I think you'll see it's extremely limiting in the wording both commercially, and NON.

Mehndi: *Really people, I've never read such a silly thread in all my born days. Those who do not want the product need not buy it.

I'm not sure what is funniest, posing nude then having the unmitigated gall to worry over what folks are going to do with your 3d body, or getting all heated up over whether Daz has made a business mistake or not.*

And those that don't want the product won't by it Mehndi...along with those that find the EULA for the product too restrictive. Nobody has been concerned over whether or not DAZ made a business mistake Mehndi! If you think it's so silly for people to discuss this, perhaps you should make that same comment in every thread in the Chicken Coop over at Poser Pros! I've seen much sillier and outrageous discussions there.

Ahhhhh, but don't you yet understand the Chicken Coop, which I do notice you do love to post in Illusions? It is a place for people to be silly as they like to be :) This is a forum that supposedly is for learning. I'd say the exact same thing if this debate were taking place in our Poser learning forums instead of the chicken coop ;) But discuss away... and mind the blood pressure :)

"The old EULA for AMG clone package goes farther than just commercial use." the problem with it is that the limits imposed in it are so damned subjective that if Daz/AMG wishes to take the EULA to the letter you cannot post anything with it, because just about anything could fall under the restrictions depending on their decision - especially under the part of 'psychological well-being' of her, her friends & associates and relatives. jesus. you could post a render of her sitting naked on a chair, and if that offends her grandmother then your image violates the EULA.

yeah!!! ;) i mean really! steamed up? heart attack? gimme a break. im just venting my opinion, DAZ wants to know if this is something they should continue you doin. so theres my opinion that im entitled to, consumer feedback. and why? Cuz the people of DAZ are so awesome that they are ALWAYS around her listening to what we say. i dont mean they sit here and watch the posts go by, they read them, hear them, think about them, and somethimes change their policies because of them, they value our opinions, and actually want to hear what we have to say. we dont like the silly thing, we wont buy it. you dont like this silly thread, dont bother posting in it.

"but don't you yet understand the Chicken Coop, which I do notice you do love to post in Illusions? It is a place for people to be silly as they like to be " interesting definition of silly.. considering the thread in there libelously and falsely accusing me of beating my g/f (rio), and being a profiteering midgit (lol).

oh yes we know all to well the true quality of posting that goes on THERE....

Do you two actually sit at the same keyboard to type, and sort of shove it back and forth between eachother? And if you have not bothered to notice, any threads that harmed or defamed or hurt anyone in a libelous sort of fashion were long ago removed, and everytime we find one we remove it. Those are not silly fun, or even good rousing debate fun. Those are flat out against our rules, and we do not tolerate their presence on our site. However, this sort of concern coming from you two is rather the pot calling the kettle black, and another point of amusement for me, since you both never hesitate to defame others to get attention :)

im sorry i dont see how i am defaming any damn thing??? im not gonna get into that fuckin thread again, the sweeping it under the carpet you call "deletion", or you, or the millions of others i see on your bored with your members always bashing someone else, YES including the man who sits beside me..this is netiher time or the place, and this thread was just fine till you got here, so if you please, lets all keep our opinions of Ms Mehndi and her forum to ourselves or to another thread please, so we can get on with our previous discussion in confidence that we wont be berated again for having our own opinions, to which we are always entitled. thank you.

Taking Toprol XL keeps my blood pressure just fine sweets! Yes, I have posted there, but I wouldn't go so far as to say I love to post in it...come to think of it I haven't posted much there lately, many of the posts have been a bit "vexatious" for my taste. Now don't get me wrong, PP is a great site and I enjoy it very much...but I believe I detected a slight note of condescendence in post 37 ;]

Hmmmm...this forum is supposedly for learning? That's funny...I was under the impression this forum was for discussions related to Poser, and I think it's safe to assume that DAZ's "digital clone" relates to Poser.

But...snicker away...and mind the sarcasm ;p

chuckles Reading comprehension is sort of suffering in some quarters I see. Did you not read what I said initially? It is silly to get so HEATED up over it ;) But that is what this is really all about, see? Just like you instantly got so heated up when I even said one single word. You both get so heated up over everything Rio. I honestly would love to be the person who will pay for his next Lexus or BMW off the heart surgery you will need someday. And I never said heart attack. Read again... comprehension is actually important, ok? There are many ways to damage your heart through stressing over things to the point you will need your heart repaired long before you ever suffer a fatal heart attack. As for folks bashing your bf, I am truly sorry that happens so much Rio. It is not necessarily your fault, and unfortunately you do get lumped in a bit when you are probably quite innocent for the most part, but when your BF has made as many enemies as he has set out to make, don't you think it would be unrealistic to think folks won't express their ire at him whenever they feel like it and can find a forum that will let it stand? Evidently they thought it would be let stand on our site since ordinarily we do not delete messages, however, they learned something new about me and our site ;) I do indeed delete messages I deem to be nastier than is our limit of tolerance. And now you want to be pissed at ME for deleting it? Would you have rathered I left it there to this day for all to read? It sure sounds like it :) You should be thanking me for my vigilance in attempting to protect a man who has repeatedly attacked me in the past, but instead you sound like you hate me for having tried to protect him ;) What gives with the attitude Rio? Maybe you and he are the same person, and there is no keyboard shoving going on at all ;) As to your debate on the merits of the AMG Eula, sure, it has merit. It is the HEATED nature of it all that amuses me and that I find to be without merit.

"Do you two actually sit at the same keyboard to type, and sort of shove it back and forth between eachother?" no, rio sits across the room from me on her own comp - much like you and russel, no doubt... although she and i try to spend our time more contructively, rather than spending it hatching defamatory rumors and plots to gain access to restricted forums or steal confidential renderosity member databases when fired from the site. until now i have not personally insulted you, mehndi, yet you come in here and in 3-4 posts have spewed forth at least a dozen condescending, snide little personal insults at me and rio, under the guise of a post preaching that we are the ones arguing heatedly... until you decided to 'grace' this thread with your self-proclaimed omniscient presence, this discussion was quite civil and constructive. why dont you go back to your little pissing-ground of a forum and spew your insults there instead, like you usually do.

That's libelous Blackhearted. ::shaking head at the stupidity of some people::

its no more libelous than your post, or any of mehndis... and at least mine is grounded in fact. quite ironic that you would accuse someone of libel in a post that primarily consists of a libelous statement. when so obviously provoked, i will retaliate. im sorry im not a 'turn the other cheek' type of guy.