Sorry to burst tjohn's bubble, he's a great artist whom I respect, but the whole idea of Bryce being around until the end of time is just ridiculous, simply because a handful of people like to wait around for hours and days for what other products can acheive in seconds or minutes. I bet you also play games from tape too because they're just incredible in terms of graphics. I mean, who still craves pong? two lines and a dot everyone! 56k memory r0x0rz! 1. I still have my copy of Bryce 5. I can still install it on any computer I own, into the future at least as long as Windows doesn't change the OS too much. It still works great, and there are many aspects of the program I have yet to master. So MY Bryce isn't going anywhere, it isn't going to die. You can keep on working with it until 2010, tjohn, but by then you would have mastered a piece of archaic software. If it's all you want that's fine, but as far as I am concerned I want a piece of software that gets updated, that gets its bugs fixed, and that gets better. You like spending 1 hour figuring out a tree so it looks half-assed normal? no problemo. I'd like to have an update for the program so I don't become a slave to it, but meh, some people just have that S&M side to them, they like to go through pain. 2. Corel just designed a new box for Bryce, so they do plan to sell more copies, for now. This move is more expensive than you might think. More expensive? "Say, let's grab the most we can out of what is now an archaic piece of software with maybe 6 more months of shelf life before it becomes obsolete (Mojoworld, Vue D'Esprit) by giving it a new look! Let's grab a relatively bryce 4ish image, slap it on the box, pay that extra little for it and sell it again! We're burrying the project anyway, no one's working for it anymore, but let's milk it dry before we drop it in the can altogether." 3. If Corel does eventually kill Bryce as one of their products, the most likely thing is that they will sell it to someone else. So it will "probably" survive in some form in the marketplace. "Maybe when it's all done and finished we'll make even more money by selling the source code! YAY!" Think about it. The rendering engine is OLD! No company will be interested in buying it. The ONLY solution left one or two years down the road for a decrepid piece of software that it will be by then will be the open source project and then maybe it will get wings. If Bryce is willing to give it away. Otherwise, too bad spanky, cough up the money to buy the source code. 4. I don't worry about Corel not developing Bryce further, because I haven't been overjoyed with their handling of the program so far. I have never used Corel's customer service anyway, so I don't care if they own the program or not. If I have any technical questions about Bryce, I'll ask them here in the Forum, where when it comes to Bryce, people know their a$$es from their elbows. By all means bring people to Bryce. That's not a problem, but explain to them that this is only the beginning, because the piece of software -as it is, is dead. Make them learn the basics and then point them in the direction of something else, because otherwise you're nothing more than a false prophet. 5. Bryce will only die if people stop using it. Right, and if we all hold hands and sing along world peace will reign supreme. like... DUDE... 6. People will only stop using it, if something better and affordable comes along to replace it. I haven't seen that product, yet. And I can't afford a program that costs more than my computer and all my peripherals combined, anyway. Truespace 6.5 - $595.00 (on sale) CINEMA 4D R8 - $595.00 Mojoworld Generator - $249.00 Vue D'esprit 4 - $199.00 Your computer was worth $595? And while some of these tools -such as Vue- don't necessarily come with the same options as our program you can certainly augument their shortcomings in the same way that you do with Bryce. The gallery for any of them certainly speaks for their ability. Let's all indulge in pipe dreams, everyone! Let's glorify a piece of software which is no longer viable as a testing ground for our imagination. Let's give in to silly little dreams as reality passes us by. Let's stay in the age of 16mb graphic cards and p2 processors because a handful of people tell us to! Even better, let's send $5 each to all self-appointed Bryce prophets! Let's be realistic. Bryce has one, maybe two more years in it before it gets scrapped or sold off. Selling it is the only option and as the market is slowly evolving and other pieces of software get better, Bryce will cease to be a useful tool. For those of us who got into this shindig of digital art for the art and not the software, it's troublign news. Keep at it, learn the program, play with it, learn the basics of modelling in a 3D environment and then MOVE ON. The community will die off much more slowly than the software, I agree, and I love this place as much as each one of you, because it represented my dreams turning into reality. But for God's sakes, get a grip on what's happening... Again, this will be flamed with no mercy by the self-appointed protectors of Bryce, people much older and experienced than I am, people who will think I am disrespecting some sort of Bryce God, blaspheming the allmighty pipe dream that this piece of software has become. It's been said that older people don't put up with change much... I don't know, I'm just a 21 year old who dares to think and say what he has on his mind. Mihnea Dumitru

Overall, you have taken this all far too seriously. If you are so negative about Bryce that you feel you have to insult me personally (yes you did, read what you wrote carefully, but that only bothers me enough to post this response), I have to wonder why you use Bryce, why do you bother to come here at all? What are you getting from all this? A chance to vent your spleen? I only want to inject some POSITIVE thinking into the mix. Since I'm already clinically depressed, I really don't need any help from people who want to live in a gray world and insist on taking everyone else with them. Please check out the responses to my post. Why is yours the only unsupportive one? I don't know, I'm just a 49 year old who dares to think and say what he has on his mind. Tjohn

Don't you just love pessimists?! :) Drac if you are so determined to move on then please do and let us deluded people enjoy our archaic software. :)

Ya know I will admit, I checked out another 3D program package the other day but I didn't like how it felt so I'm going to continue in Bryce until I feel the NEED to update myself to a new program. In my opinion I feel I've gotten better in Bryce since I joined Renderosity, and I think sometime I'll be able to do amazing things with Bryce, just like Alvin does, or just like ICM, just like garyandcatherine, or a few others of my faves. It's just a matter of time. Hell, I think I can someday be able to do things like Clay was able to do, but I'm not going to give up on Bryce because each and every one of us (especially the regulars) have shown that the only limitation to Bryce is our imaginations. Yeah it has a slow renderer and sometimes I wish there was a stand-alone renderer out there I can use for final jobs, but all-in-all, we've proven over and over that Bryce can do some great things, and we can continue that. I'm not praying down to a Bryce god, I'm not bending over backwards to say Bryce is the best...it's only the best if it's the best for you. I'm sure Maya is great for some...that's fine. I'm sure C4D is fine for others, that's great. I looked at the C4D forums both on here and on another site, they talk about that program like we talk about Bryce...so it goes so many different ways. From what I've always said, 'It's only obsolete if it doesn't do the job you want it to do.' That can apply to almost anything in this world, remember that. I'm going to watch some damn baseball now and start a prelim drawing on my next project, talk to everyone later. MD

Nothing wrong with having own opinions, although i dont really agree with most of it. "Let's glorify a piece of software which is no longer viable as a testing ground for our imagination." ...well, i would like to think i know how to use Bryce, and so far i havent found much limits in the app. I still have several features to learn as well. Ive successfully competed against people using Maya, Max, XSI etc, have several pics in "High End" galleries and as magazine covers, and all that with an app that costs $79.99! I have nothing against other apps. Have even started to learn myself Maya, but its not because i have to, but because im curious. Bryce will still be my tool for a long time ahead and i see no reason to dismiss it. BTW...i still think that the NES 8-bit holds the best and memorable games ever... :)

I work with it, a friend of mine writes programs (he also wrote the OS that operates the HD and CD-rom) for it and i do the graphics (see example, i wish i could show more, but i have to transfer those from the Sam to the PC, but XP is not nice to my disk-image reader, i am working on that).

So why should i use a computer of wich production stopped about 13 years ago and probably less than a 1000 are still in use worldwide on a regular base.

Because it is fun......

Draculaz, somehow you don't get the point, people do things just for fun of it, and for that they don't need the newest, or the best or the most expensive goods, software or whatever, all they want is to have fun, and that is priceless.

well, it's certainly a shame. All I could think of when the initial post was made was 'whoo, hope he has a crash helmet'..;) I got into Bryce sideways, I started looking for wallpaper at work, found 'the Ultimate Guide to Fantasy and Sci-Fi Art' or somesuch, and on site after site, I found the Bryce stuff to look the best, and most realistic. Of course, this was 2001, so things have improved since then.
Hey, if software's old and obsolete, that doesn't necessarily make it bad. I still use DOS batch files, ipconfig, ping, netstat, etc., at work, and they can be handy. I'm still using Corel 8, but it works just fine. Yeah, Bryce can take a long time to render, but it's worth it. Y'know, there are folks out there who actually collect Ataris, Commodore 64s, etc., there's actually emulator programs that turn a respectable Pentium IV into an 8-bit game machine. I don't know if Bryce will still be around, but I'm not going to start shoveling dirt on it until the pulse is gone..;) To each his own..but I'll use Bryce until or unless something does it better for the same or less money..;)

ever get the urge to just start beating people with a shovel.. this is the way i'm starting to feel about everyone who continue to argue with this.. input once.. maybe, if the person insults you.. but for this arguement to continue on and on and on.. let it die, let it end completely.. if bryce is not going to be made anymore, so be it! if they deside to revamp it and make it better, all the better! I've grown tired of this arguement as probably many have, and i'll not argue anypoints other then this one... Enough of this arguement, it needs to stop, and stop fast, only because its been said way to many times now.

Sorry

i held back from commenting on Drac's last posting but I just can't resist here. Why on earth are you getting personal with everyone on these forums??? TJohn said what he said and wasn't attacking anyone. It was an optimistic way of looking at the future of Bryce....whats wrong with that??? BTW, us Bryce users (most anyway) dont use Bryce because we think its the most advanced or expert program. I use 3dmax, lightwave and maya but guess what Bryce is my favorite program. Even though the other programs can do much more than Bryce and obviously so much faster. But thats not whay I use it. I love the interface, the look and feel of it. I like to challenge myself with every new image or animation I create. ...so please get off you pedestool, if you feel like bashing everyone on this forum, then maybe this just isnt your forum. good day

i agree with dragonsbld and robertJ

all i know is that i have a 3d program that i have fun with and, unless the disc flies out the window, will still be on my computer for a loooooong time

Just one thing: Cinema 4D is $595. But, to get some of the results you get in Bryce (caustics, depth of field), you have to buy XL bundle, which costs 1723,28 euros. Of course, you get Motion capture and particle system then, too, but it's beside the point. And to get the network rendering on more than 3 clients, you have to pay even more. I paid my computer about 1000 euros.

I haven't even gotten into Bryce animation yet, something to look forward too...:]

My PC would loath and fear me even more than it already does if I mentioned animation in its presence.

GUYS GUYS GUYS! what the heck is this? i thought this was a friendly forum! This is what i understand about a forum.... its a venue for members to express, commnunicate and interact with fellow members, at the same time get some feedback or help at the same time... or at other times express our opinions openly and be either contradicted or accepted... THIS IS NOT A ROOM FOR PEOPLE TO FIGHT OR ARGUE PERIOD! so please drop this fraggin argument... use what you wan to use drac, let tjohn express whatever he wants, if you disagree then dont make a fuss about it... do an IM and take it to him directly, not insult the guy openly, thats just like stabbing someone at the back... this forum SHOULD be a Forum for us to freely express our opinions, hope thats CLEAR

Man goes into software store. Customer: I wish to complain about my 3d software! It seems to be dead! Salesman: No, its not dead! Its pining for the fjords! Wake up Bryce! makes new box I have a nice update patch for you! Now for something completely different. Does not matter to me if Bryce is dead or not. Will still use it for pictures until it stops working or I find something better. So far Bryce is not dead and until Corel actually pulls the plug, it has some health.

Tjohn has made some excellent points in the thead below and I wholeheartedly agree with him. My current version of Bryce presumably will continue to work for another 5-10 years, and I don't think that I have reached the limits of the programme yet. Version 5 perfectly allows me to express myself (as did 2.2 and 3D), and if I really am in desparate need of an upgrade, hmm..., I think I'd be better off to take another year in art school, very large grin.

:^)

I have been here long enough to realize that Draculaz is prone to commenting like this from time to time, although this time I think he is really out of order in attacking tjohn, (who really does not deserve it), and I don't think anyone else here agrees with him one little bit. So I'm only writing this to keep up with what others have to say on the matter. Ever heard the saying "biting off ones nose to spite ones face". Nuff said.............. Catlin

I agree with Catlin (and others on this post.) I think all-in-all, Draculaz has good things to offer, he does a great job on art, has posted some nice pictures and does have good ideas and comments on art, but at times he can be brash too and that may be a downside. Calling someone out wasn't the correct thing to do, that's what instant messaging is for or e-mail. It was a wrong decision on his part I feel, but at the same time, I'm not going to completely hold it all against him because I do enjoy the other aspects he can offer us all. Can I be too forgiving sometimes, yeah...but at the same time, I don't like to see the bickering on this board when what it's meant is for positive, constructive conversation. MD

AMEN to that response, EYECON!!! I have Rhino 3D, Poser 4, ZBrush and many other apps; None compare to the interface of Bryce. They're all great programs and have their good points! Take my advice, Bryce is nice. I can't make mice, but love the price!

Sorry, my grin earlier was for SevenofEleven's comment. I think it's time to cut Draculaz some slack. I just disagree with him, I don't hate him, I would really miss him if he went away, I don't think that's gonna happen anyway, LOL! You got to admire a guy who never compromises what he thinks.

I agree tjohn...glad we're all squared away on this. MD BACK TO BRYCING EVERYONE! :) I can't wait to vote in this month's challenge...I may participate in next month's, not sure yet.

Yes MadDog, just watch out for Draculaz ripping you if it's not up to the mark..........LOL Catlin

hahah...yeah Catlin I know. But hey it helps push myself even further I guess. I'm still looking for that Hot 20 placement...until I get that, I don't feel like I'm making much progress. MD

Don't worry yourself over the Hot One, I've been here for ages and still haven't gotten in. You should read some of the opinions in the Poser forum on the hot 20.............it's not pretty. Catlin

I made no.20 once, in the beginners gallery. Does that count?

I think that probably counts frndofyaweh, but we all want the glory off the Bryce hot 20 at some point. 8) Catlin