Attached Link: http://alicorna.com/misc.html

Digimarc is a paid service. You have to license a number from them in order to mark your images, and it's not a visible watermark, so it doesn't really discourage anyone from taking anything. It's useful in some situations (some kinds of online stock photography sites, for example), but probably not that useful in a situation like this. The best way to "prove" that something is your original image is simply to keep the .psd (or equivalent) with all the layers and so forth that show it as a work in progress. It's virtually impossible for someone to fake something like that. And yes, a visible watermark is a good thing. I've started to do that on all my images, plus I include a subtle URL watermark for my art domain. People would have to not only crop the image but also airbrush out various parts of it to claim it was their own. This should discourage the "tubers" who like to hack images up and those who would try to pretend they made the images. I have some free "watermark" layer styles you can play with use, alter, etc., available on my web design site if anyone's interested. PS6 and PS7, instructions on how to use are in the .zip file. Link attached. Am I mistaken that you have to be a member to view the gallery here? I thought you did, but I admit I haven't investigated. Perhaps Renderosity could re-write the Copyright policy somewhat to be a little sterner to people who want to steal images. I'm not suggesting anything draconian, but something clear, legally sound, and official sounding might scare off a couple of these idiots a little bit. Then again, I think these people are like cockroaches. You can stomp them indefinitely and they'll still keep coming back. They breed in the sewers and cracks in the walls. bonni

i found at least 7 of my pics in there but i couldnt get them all to load if anyone sees more than that please im me so i can send the list to ravnheart and toxic angel and if i run across anyone elses anywhere else ill do the same for you -jeweldragon

This is a sad day for me.. a couple of my images where on there..and I have been thinking of adding watermarks to my images before..but find that they invade the image too much.. Guess I'm gonna have to reconcider =/

Hacking is not what is required here? You could be more subtle, contact the site owner say how nice their images in the gallery are, ask if there is any way you can have them, buy them or given to you the owner is in further breach of copyright! This being distribution of copyrighted material. Say you are opening an arts and crafts stall and would like the images on postcards etc.. Is there any way they could do that for you! Then ask the question, "am I OK with the copyright? I assume because YOU own them that by selling them to me that this I am able to sell them on without breaching copyright" See what happens then! For your info Obtaining Copyright Protection Copyright protection arises automatically when an "original" work of authorship is "fixed" in a tangible medium of expression. Registration with the Copyright Office is optional (but you have to register before you file an infringement suit, and registering early will make you eligible to receive attorney's fees and statutory damages in a future lawsuit). A copyright owner has five exclusive rights in the copyrighted work: * Reproduction Right. The reproduction right is the right to copy, duplicate, transcribe, or imitate the work in fixed form. * Modification Right. The modification right (also known as the derivative works right) is the right to modify the work to create a new work. A new work that is based on a preexisting work is known as a "derivative work." * Distribution Right. The distribution right is the right to distribute copies of the work to the public by sale, rental, lease, or lending. * Public Performance Right. The public performance right is the right to recite, play, dance, act, or show the work at public place or to transmit it to the public. In the case of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, showing the work's images in sequence is considered "performance." Sound recordings - recorded versions of music or other sounds - do not have a public performance right. * Public Display Right. The public display right is the right to show a copy of the work directly or by means of a film, slide, or television image at a public place or to transmit it to the public. In the case of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, showing the work's images out of sequence is considered "display." In addition, certain types of works of "visual art" also have "moral rights" which limit the modification of the work and the use of the author's name without permission from the original author. Anyone who violates any of the exclusive rights of a Copyright owner is an infringer.

Please note that some countries do not have any way to "register" copyrights, therefore it's not a requirement everywhere that you have to register anything in order to make a claim or recover damages. Just a little note since some people are unaware of this. bonni

I have created my own action in photoshop, to create a copyright layer. I only use it on items I think are worth it. If anyone wants to know how to create a layer full of copyright info from just the 1 copyright line you have typed in please let me know, I will then write a quick how to!

hello again,
i am glad i could help. after reading your responses, and the post from nikitacreed, if everyone who had a image taken and posted would send an email to valueweb (use the templates at www.rightsforartists.com), i think that they will probably either have the images removed or shut the site down. i just checked out the site and this is a really blatant copyright issue. i know that you are really pissed about this, but if we do this "legally", we have a better chance of resloving this and possibility preventing this from happening again.

as for watermarking images, Ravnheart's example shows how awful an image looks when watermarked in this fashion (in my opinion). just remember to always sign your work and this affords you copyright protection.

well i have said enough for now. again i am glad i could help, after all, your tuts, images, meshes, texts, etc..., have helped and insipred me.

this guy lives about 30 minutes from me.. Anyway want me to go ring his doorbell?

Boy, what a shame, I feel so bad for you all. If there is anything I can do to support you all, please let me know, I will post information on our site if you need, just let me know. Sharen

There's at least one of mine. :-(

I followed ToxicAngel's link and found 7 of mine. I couldn't put the title on some, because they are so old and no longer in my gallery so I just layed the cursor over the thumbnail and got this person's number to identify them. I have a cable connection and those were still the slowest loading pages I've ever been to. So be warned if you have a dial-up.

none of mine... but that probably because i put a layer with name on over the top! and mine are digitally signed ;) I don't like putting text through my images, but it seems as a result of things like this i will continue to do so.. I hope this gets sorted out people hugs SimderZ

I contacted the site owner and the webmaster this morning in regards to this violation, I've posted a copy of the email and their sorry ass response so far below.

 
I was directed to your site this morning by a friend and was shocked to find several of the images that you have in your gallery that belong to most of my friends. Do you have permission to show these images??? If not they should be removed immediately since this is in violation of the copyright of each one of them that you did not personally do. I do hope to see these images removed and to hear back from you before I contact your ISP.  
~~~~~~~~  
 
and this was the response I got - probably a friggin ebot...  
 
"I will read your message with great interest and reply if appropriate. Thank you."  
~~~~~~~~  
 
WTF....  
 
I am really stunned by this, especially after finding a couple of mine after I sent the email. Linda, Rhiannon, Gina,ToxicAngel and GothicAngel - thanks so much for the heads up

WTF well on a good note the Artist's links go to yall's store's but still this is wrong so very wrong has any one call there site host and had them close the site till the pic's are off if you all call the host they will do that just a thought xoxo

Umm they have many images that they do not have any sort of link to the artist in any way. IE myself and my hubby, Ravenism, have images that they took without asking and posted there, and no link or mention of us in anyway. Not that it would make it much better cause I would still be pissed.

and you should be what she/he did is f-up and she/he should have the site pulled

I know this is probably not the best thread to say this but every single one of thos images is stunning. Really really inspiring. Great work all.

well first time I've clicked on one of these links and actually found one of my images. perhaps the rosity gallery should have a blurb on every gallery page saying something like "the work shown is the property of the individual artist. it may not be displayed linked to or used in any form without the artists permission." too often I hear the rationale that since its just being shown on the web thats not really publishing or distribution. which is BS frankly. but unless its spelled out in easy to understand language rather then legalese, you'll always get the armchair lawyers who say copywrite law doesnt apply to what they are doing.

I stayed up until 2:00 going through all the folders and I have 49 images stolen, some I deleted MONTHS ago, so this must have been going on for a looooooooooong time. Linda

geez linda im really sorry to hear that i hope something can get done quickly about this im sorry for all who got thier stuff taken

Those are gorgeous images. If we have to start watermarking beautiful pieces of work, I'm going to be truly sad. :/ I hope this gets resolved soon.

its a poor leecher...tsss...no comments for this crap

Thanks for the info she has a couple of mine also...

I took it upon myself to write this "Debra" and also the webmaster listed, Anthony. My original message is at the bottom, and here's a reply I got ... if it's this easy, then fantastic ... if not, we'll see huh? I'm not sure, but I don't think they want this huge barage of R'osity artists breathing down their necks. Everyone, please write these folks and lets get this nipped quickly, yes? All images in the Ariel's Dreams gallery are displayed for free and a link to the gallery/store of the artist is provided as well. I will be happy to remove your images if this remains your intention. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lady Rhi To: debra.lang@arielsdreams.com Cc: Anthony.Lang@arielsdreams.com Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:35 PM Subject: Unauthorized Use of My Copyrighted Images I am writing to ask you to remove any of my images you have displayed in the gallery on your website. It would seem that you imply that the images may be for sale. I don't know if this is your intention, but my images are copyrighted, as are most all of the images I recognize, and I do not recall giving you permission to display these images here. My images are copyrighted and are protected by international copyright laws. Unauthorized use of my original images, without express permission from me, is forbidden. I'd want them removed within 24 hours. Thank you for your attention in this matter. Regards, Rhiannon Morrigan

Can't we all get together since Not one of us agreed that they could show our pictures, That is bullcrap about links to our name. I never gave permission for the use of images or to use Reno's link to my Gallery here. Dosen't Ren have some rule these jerks broke.????? I still think they are selling them or doing something besides showing our work. I think If our Site Here at Renderosity would stick up for us, we could end a lot of this kinds of stealing. After all Ren is the Biggest and best on the internet. We all buy from the Store and this is my home on the net. I would love to think it's a group and we stick together. One call or E-mail from our sites Reps. would most likely do more good than 50 e-mails by us personaly. Just a thought. Leah

I agree Rhi, I just got pretty much the same reply pasted below- -------------------- These images are not being displayed as property of Ariel's Dreams but as works of other artists with links to the artist's gallery/store presented at the bottom of the pages. If any artist chooses to be removed they may contact me at this address and I will be happy to remove their art and the link to their store/gallery from the site. -------------------- Hmmmmm....I guess it never occurred to them that they should ask first....grrrrr

They are about to get one from me to. I just copied Rhi's and altered it a bit. LOL! -------------------- I am writing to ask you to remove any of my images you have displayed in the gallery on your website. It would seem that you imply that the images may be for sale. I don't know if this is your intention, but my images are copyrighted, as are most all of the images I recognize, and I do not recall giving you permission to display these images in any way whatsoever, much less on a commercial site. My images are copyrighted and are protected by international copyright laws. Unauthorized use of my original images, without express permission from me, is forbidden. I want them removed within 24 hours. (I suggest you remove all the images since we are a tightly knit community and most of the artists displayed on your site have been contacted and are rather irate about this violation of thier work and copyright.) Section of your website containing copyrighted work of many, many angry Renderosity artists - http://www.arielsdreams.com/freegallery.htm Thank you for your attention in this matter. Your website host Valueweb has already been contacted by myself and many other artist's at Renderosity whose images are being displayed on your commercial site in violation of thier copyright due to your already insufficient response to several of the artist's complaints. Removing only those images of the artist's who contact you is hardly cooperation on your part. You DO NOT own the the copyright on ANY of those images displayed on your site and you ARE in violation of copyright law, as well as your webhost's Terms of Service. Regards, -Emily Thrasher aka. nikitacreed -------------------- I already contacted the host last night. I felt I should send this one because I really don't like that crap about each artist needing to CONTACT her to have thier images removed. What a load of crap. -Em

6 of mine on there, and I didn't see any link to my gallery at all. I also gave no permission.

Okay... i'm going to add something to this thread too!

Quote from Rhi's post :

These images are not being displayed as property of Ariel's Dreams but as works of other artists with links to the artist's gallery/store presented at the bottom of the pages. If any artist chooses to be removed they may contact me at this address and I will be happy to remove their art and the link to their store/gallery from the site."

Yea, a pretty neat answer, considering that most of the so called "Links to the stores" are still missing and probably this guy/gal/whatever doesnt give a damn about it!

Anyway, what p***es me off the most - the guy asks us to go thru the images and tell him the gallery id's to him so that he can delete the files! WTF - If you ripped of somebodys stuff with Drag and Drop / Save Image As... -method, at least for god sake - put them into the folder assosiated with artist's name (thank you)!

But the thing is : first rip-off, then mix-up, and in the end it's our fault! :)

ROFL - and as for me, i only found 1 of my image ripped so i guess i'm not pleasing their taste anyway grins

it's really sad cause the famous artist are paranoiac with that people but don't forget the people who love your art without leeching...peer to peer are the same (just try renderosity on kazaa or emule and else...)it's a reel problem no? who read the read me sincerely? maybe it's time to resolve it? p.s:sorry for my bad english ;)

I think this is terrible! I'm a little freaked out actually. I don't know if anyone has even thought about why they post there work here beyond showing off but the artwork here becomes public domain when you post it. You don't wave your rights to ownership but by posting it you are doing so with the knowledge that anyone can copy it and you are aware of it. A little copyright symbol on the image isnt going to stop someone from linking it/posting it elsewhere. Do you realise they are a reseller? The site is a clickthrough/spider site thats setup to generate as many hits for profit in as little time as possible. You all just feel for the biggest scam and the more you feed that fire the more it will continue. Does this happen often? If you ever find a website that is doing this very thing the best thing you can do is track them down (in the real world) and deal with it. Going to their site and sending your friends and they send theirs just puts more hits in their pocket and the concept survives. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be crass. Maybe I would feel different if one of my images (or more) were there but, somehow I doubt it. I'm am fully aware of the pros and cons of posting ANYTHING online. Again, I'm sorry for those of you who feel wronged.

if they are generating income from hits then all of us who have images there are due compensation. sounds like a lawsuit is in order.

ok just a last word from paris...(i know..lol;)if you come in paris try chatelet and the halles shirt you will see all the poser work ready to print for teeshirt...i asked the seller and the answer was "keep cool man it's free on the web ..." i'm not a great artist but i understand people who work night and day but its a reality..sample was the problem in the music no? it's cool to talk about htis problem but action will better no?

http://www.artistscope.com/ sorry i talking a lot but try this link ;)

I wrote that Deb and the copywrite person. I don't agree, That when we post here we give up our copywrite. Wrong.

3ncryptabl3_lick states: "I don't know if anyone has even thought about why they post there work here beyond showing off but the artwork here becomes public domain when you post it. You don't wave your rights to ownership but by posting it you are doing so with the knowledge that anyone can copy it and you are aware of it. A little copyright symbol on the image isnt going to stop someone from linking it/posting it elsewhere....." If this in fact is true....that by posting here at Rendorosity the artists work becomes "public domain" that anyone can copy, then I think everyone ought to have a serious discussion with Rendorosity. My work is not good enough yet to merit stealing, but I've always believed that any submissions I've made for challenges and the like could be used by Rendorosity for promotional purposes (that seems clear). But I never had the impression that any "jug head" could just march in here and download whatever they wanted simply because it was posted here!. Maybe someone who is more knowledgeable on this subject can clarify....or better yet....one of the Rendo staff or moderators.

People don't give a s**t about copyright or copyright law suit :( I have this on my website and the images still get stolen :( ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ These images are not in the public domain. They belong exclusively to the artist. Their presence on the web only means that the images are to be seen, and not taken and used or claimed by others. These images are not to be used elsewhere without permission from the artist, nor are they to be modified and reused, included on a personal website, compilation CD or redistributed in any way. No part of this web site may be copied, transferred or re-created without the written consent of the owners. All photos, text, and other intellectual content contained within 'Omega Order' or any of the enclosed sites are copyrighted and protected under National and International Copyright Laws as well as Fair Use Provision Acts. Any violation will result in prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. All Rights Reserved whether written or implied. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I contacted the site owner and the webmaster this morning in regards to this violation and got only one auto response :( "I will read your message with great interest and reply if appropriate. Thank you." Question...If there is a national and internation copyright law why the heck the don't do anything and protect the artists better :(

Well, neat answer or not, it's still copyright violation and their ISP needs to be aware that as long as they allow those images to be displayed they are also guilty of copyright violations, especially if they have been given notification of what is going on. So everyone needs to not only write the website contacts but their ISP as well and raise hell with them and demand that the gallery area be taken down at least until they have gotten rid of all of the images. Turtle you are correct, we DO NOT give up our copyrights when we post there. Actually when we post here, it falls under "publishing" a piece of work which is protected under copyrights. It does not become "public domain" when it is posted here, 3ncryptabl3_lick, that is completely false. Just talk to Royo and Bell about and their lawyers :) And to me, their nice neat little answer indicates to me that they've been through this before :) Pendy

Well, something has happened, because that entire gallery section is no longer on line. A 404 not found error in it's place.

You dont give up your rights at all. Sorry, I should not have said 'it becomes public domain' but rather 'it might as well become public domain' Public... Your work isnt being hung in a gallery with a pricetag and guards and security. You posted it for people to see and are not charging a fee. ...You should not be surprised this happenes. Since your work is public (the instant you post it) and by virtue of being aware it can be copied freely, you might as well give permission to do so because people will. Now people who sell same, well that's just wrong. It's alot like an EULA. Sometimes all it takes is to break a seal to wave your rights or click a check box or install a program. When you post, you are almost doing the same thing. The problem is, nobody cares! The image is online and if its online its free for the taking. Thats the point. It's really just a matter of what you are willing to deal with when you post anything online. Words, ideas, pictures, video, audio... Thats a fact of the web. It's too bad but its reality. allwhois.com is your friend. Use it. Abuse it. Teach those who steal your work a lesson... Or discuss and complain about it here and wait and hope someone else will do something about it, whatever works... ;)

3ncryptabl3_lick, you are wrong! Following your premise, a printed book that someone buys is "in the public domain" and can therefore be used as if uncopyrighted. Incorrect. It is still copyrighted as you and your lawyer would soon find out if you provided the full text on a website or quoted parts without proper attributions. Copyright law is clear: publication of a unique work of art (of any kind) is automatically covered; validated by the use of a copyright mark, legalized by a registration. The rights to distribute, display, publish, sell, etc. are all solely those of the creator unless permission or transfer or rights is given by the creator. Note that one does not need to register a copyright to claim copyright to their work. In many cases, such as artwork, a signature is enough to provide copyright claim (but it'd be easier to defend your claim with a proper copyright mark). Public domain, my ass. Go take unique images from other web sites (especially corporate) and put them on your own site and see how "public domain" they are. Public domain as in "publically cease and desist with prompt removal" with a nice notarized legal letter and threats of suit. BYS

Well, now that you've explained yourself, sorry for the rant. But, it doesn't excuse this. The only reason that you can defend it is because of the anonymity of the internet. Let's take a little art show in some market. The pictures there aren't for sale, just for display - maybe local artists getting some coverage. There are no armed guards, nor are there any signs of "Copyrighted Materials". This is a "real" gallery just like the one here where anybody can view and admire the work. Except for the fact that if someone were to say to themselves, "Wow, I like that picture, think I'll take it home with me." and walk off with it, it'd be considered theft. If they later claimed that it was theirs, it would be copyright infringement (if not plagiarism, etc.). So, what's the difference? Just because I would love a nice home gallery with some modest works by DaVinci, Botticelli, Dali, and Escher doesn't give me the right to just borrow them for myself, does it? BYS

Ok one down!!!! The images from the front page have been removed. The folders have been passworded. We cant get in them but at least no one else can. The images have been pulled from the front page finally. So now its a private gallery, and they way it should have been kept. Im sure this person will not try this again. ToxicAngel has also removed the ripoff links now :) Thank you all for swift action and helping to put a stop to this. I would like to give a HUGE thank you to Linwhite for bringing this to our attention. This has really opened my eyes and made me anrgy for the abuse of so many artists. I will be becoming extremely active in helping the artists protect there work and themselves. This is a shame that we can not enjoy our art without the fear of people stealing it. Look for some ways to protect yourself coming soon. Thank you all!!!

The question is...why so many other members here putting you on your favorite artist list without having a own gallery. Kinda sort that makes me wonder. I guess if we would search closer we would find more websites like Ariels Dream Gallery :( @ 3ncryptabl3_lick.You are very wrong. If you sign your image it is copyrighted. Their presence on the web only means that the images are to be seen, and not taken and used or claimed by others. These images are not to be used elsewhere without permission from the artist, nor are they to be modified and reused, included on a personal website, compilation CD or redistributed in any way Hopefully this will say enough :)

Yeah... it is down but how can we know if the images were deleted also from those passworded folders...? , well Many thanks to Linwhite , and to Gina and Janne...

Hopefully it stays down and thanks to everyone for the great support...:)

Martin, I doubt that they have been deleted and that's why they are passworded, so we will not know. That is unless of course someone breaks the password or gets the password, then they can claim we hacked their account. Gotta love it when theives think.

Well, I hate to break this to you, but the thumbnails are all still right there on the front page. I got the "password" popup annoyance box and clicked it a few times and it finally gave up and let me scroll down the page (I'm using Netscape 7). They may be in the process of removing them now, as I see several missing graphics, but who knows with a moron like this. "But, but, it's okay because I'm not saying they're mine!" As for the concept that people should "expect" this kind of behavior, most of us who have been around the net for long DO expect it. We don't, however, have to tolerate it or allow it or ignore it. It's true that there's nothing to keep people from making off with our images and hacking them up, reselling them, making them into web sets, who knows what else, but there's also nothing preventing US from contacting web hosts and taking other steps to stop a known offender. Perhaps this person really is clueless. From the looks of her page I'd say that's a good bet. But many of us here are not clueless, and we're not willing to put up with crap like this when we discover it. bonni

It is too bad my point was totaly ignored. Unfortunately you are all simply fooling yourselves. You have no rights online. Whether you beleive me or not, it's doesnt matter if im wrong. When you post an image online its public. You can show me any line from any book about copyright laws, it would be a mute point. This isnt about what is right and what is wrong! This is about cause and effect. You post pics, people can/will steal them. If this was a morality issue, well it wouldnt have evovled at all. Who cares about copyright laws when the appication of same on the web is foggy at best!? I'm trying to help you guys deal with the facts here but you seem blinded by the moment. I hope clarity prevails.

the really sad thing is that most of us don't sell or make money from our pictures- and that if asked many would give permission with a link back. I do :)