I am wondering about this subject for same and other reasons as a previous thread. I own all of these figures, and I can't get just the right combo of stuff for a project. The problem is, NO support from DAZ3d for Judy, Don, or Poser 5 at all as far as I can see. So, I am always finding that something is non-existant for one figure, and available for the other. Judy hasn't the morphs she needs, Vicki has too few dynamic cloths (all available made by good hearted merchants, who if they did not make them there would be none), etc. V3 would be a great (no-unstoppable) product if DAZ3D would support Poser 5. Now they are moving to do DAZ/studio, so clearly they are going to try to take control of their own destiny, but are they going to continue to worry about whether their products are compatible for Poser anymore? I would think they would have to do that for a while. We need a Poser 5 ready V3! And we don't have one! Anyway, it seems like only merchants/content creators can really jazz up Judy, and I know some of them are doing that. I look forward to when Judy and V3 can be put in the same scene and both have the same abilities as figures.

"I look forward to when Judy and V3 can be put in the same scene and both have the same abilities as figures." It will probably happen when Posette and V2 can be put in the same scene with Mike and the Dork and all four have the same abilities. In other words, Daz's lack of support for non-propriatory models is SOP. You do know the history of Eula problems with Daz and Curious Labs, ne? My theory is they left that box of Poser 5 unopened too long. I know the official policy-- as stated on Daz's site is support of Poser 4, pp and 5, but I don't know anybody working for them that uses Poser 5. From what I hear, almost any outfit can be rigged to work in the Clothes room. You have to do some prep, that's all. As for Judy, I bought all the add-ons and still have no desire to play with her. Having too much fun with V3 and V2 and the FireFly engine. I am a bit surprised there is No Support for Don in any store that I know of-- ok, there's a quicksuit at Poserstyle and PhilC did a coat, but damn slim pickings. And he's not a bad model, just not a good as he looked at first. Emily

IN MY OPINION...

1. Judy belongs on Mars, and is a waste of my time. She is so ugly that I can't stand to look at her mug long enough to morph her. Some have made her look good, but she just gives me the willies.

2. V3 and her accessories are coming along nicely. She is so bulky that P5 seems to cave under the stress of multiples. She is great for realism, and when the Opteron gets a little cheaper maybe she'll be more comfortable to work with.

3. The ladies have come a long way since early Poser. Many quality Free models are available. I think, a trend toward buying instead of creating, has led to the lack of morphs and accessories. Posette has more free morphs available that any other character, right? Vicky has the wardrobe. V3 has the resolution. I won't even touch Koshini, ICK, creepy little thing!

4. Don't rely on the trends to give you what you want, some way or another you will be disappointed.

Daz didn't do Don and Judy obviously. I have seen the Judy and Don mesh. To me it seems they have severe design issues and flaws that would make it impossible to be comparible to V3 for several reasons. In fairness Daz has never made content for third party characters. They made Posette and supported her, etc. But CL's decision to do the P5 figures alone was designed to prevent future dependentcy on Daz. From what I was told at the time, it was hoped the community would make all the P5 content as sell it in content paradise. And because Daz did not create the P5 figures, they have no rights by which to make and sell improved upgrades of those figures. Many of the features of Poser5 are not stable enough for viable commercial products. The tech support alone would make products sepcifically geared for the head room, hair room and cloth room a nightmare. They are nice features but you can't build products around them. The head room is completely uncomaptible with the advanced V3 design. She would have to be stripped down to a lesser version of herself to work. Our tech support for Poser program related questions is already way to high. Doing CL's tech support is not within our means. And CL has stated in the past to customers that they will not answer questions regarding the use of Daz products. For this an many other reasons P5 content is not planned for development. Personally I find my Poser 4 much more stable that P5. V3 does work in P5 just as all Poser products do providing you follow proper installation instructions. Any other problems are further examples of program error. Hope that sorts it out, Anton

I want to give some examples so you don't think I am making this up. The Face Room -requires a specific polygon number around the neck and the seams have to be in a specific area. This would require a seperate joint set up and yet another new line of clothes for a P5version of Vicki. -Face room set up is private info not released by CL. CL requires a fee for setup of all figures to work in the face room. Last quote was $14,000 per figure if I remember correctly. Cloth room -No smoothing feature. -Dynamic groups are often forgotten by the program causing simulation failure Hair Room -no undo -like you tied one end of a rope to a chair lef and held the other end randomly trying to whip the rope into a shape -no way to control hair density at the scalp. Can look pluggy. If Daz made products people would expect them to work. but if the program features are still unpredicatble this is impossible. Liek I said you can just imagine, under these circumstances, the overwhelming amount of tech support for items that may not work through no fault of the creator.

I believe you, Anton, that's why I don't use the Face, Hair and Cloth rooms.LOL! It's quite enough for me that the Daz products will work in 5 or if they won't that's made clear at purchase. If Daz had to do tech support on P5, we'd never see Mike 3 or Daz Studio. Though we might have a working Poser 5, not that that would do youse guys any monetary good.:)) Emily

I also wish there was a bit more for Judy and Don, but have pretty much made the transition to using the DAZ characters instead. Nor do I harbour any expectations about these characters being supported by DAZ or anyone else. CL has pretty much taken care of that with it's handling of P5. I am grateful that a few vendors are continuing to provide some product for P5. I'm especially fond of the material room. V3 is a bit much in P5, although you're quite right Anton, she does work. However, I only use her when she is the only character in the image. Multiples of her or her with other characters, for whatever reason, causes a real resource drag on my system. This does not happen with multiples of P5 characters or even V2 and Mike. Not sure why that is, but have learned to live with it. How is DAZ studio coming by the way?? Have not heard much lately.

Having invested a life savings in P4F, V1 and V2, I'm not going to put another nickle into Judy, Stephanie, V3 or some of the other meshes. If V3 clothes were made to be compatible with V1/V2, I might start buying some of them. I have stopped visiting Daz3d since they went all V3.

I'm sorry, I don't get the whole 'spent life savings on V2 clothes, can't possibly use V3' argument. Victoria 3 specifially comes with a V3 to V2 hybrid- V3's head on a V2 body, so you can use all of your V2 clothes and still enjoy the incredible face morphs on V3.

Right. And for those complaining that the V3 to V2 hybrid has no V2 body morphs..so what? if you're going to dress her the clothes don't usually work with the morphs anyway, and if she's nekked just use V3.

Anton's right, as usual. You can't be a major company and support someone else's buggy product. Individual vendors can, because they have a much smaller product base, and can concentrate on specifc types of items. Very fe vendors are doing anything with the dynamic clothing or hair for just those reasons Anton gave. I haven't seen any 3rd party stuff for the face room. I hope Daz Studio is all we want it to be, but even if it's just a posing and rendering tool, I'm pretty sure that Daz will provide good support for it, and that there's a pretty good chance it'll run as advertised. Side Note: I want my M3! Anton, are you working on him? Isn't it time for a couple of teasers? Huh? Please? (grin). The last line is a public service message.

Dynamic clothes are great though - check out Steve's at Poser World - you can use any morph on any of the girls and the clothes just fit them - no compatability hassles at all! I wish Daz would make a few.

CHILL CHILL CHILL, Daz is working on poser 5 ready Mike Vicky and Vicky Kids figures. If it's in demand they will make it. Don't sweat it , Daz wont let you down they want the money.

I use Mike and Vicky when I get all the v 3 morph I might switch to using her but the Vicky and Mike figures are my prime figures I use, the p4 and p5 figures I use as back ground figures. Because I get better faces out of vicky and Mike..geez did I say that:? I remember when Vick7y first came out and everyone hated her and everyone thought Mike was a dork.

YOu know there is more then enough support in the poser community for Don and Judy, But I suspect Daz is just trying to catch up since poser 5 has not been out any longer then6 months I think it is. maybe a little longer then that, But I think they are just slow catching up to everything and maybe sitting back to see how well poser 5 does in sales before comitting to it.

Scuse the cynicism, Mesh Magick, but they did not need to catch up after releasing Vicky 3! Stuff is just pouring out for her! At the end of the day, Daz are about to release their own Studio program so are hardly likely to offer to much support to their biggest rival - Poser 5. Well, that is how I see it anyway. Poser 5 has been out over 6 months and there are certainly a good number of users now!

p5 instability regarding new rooms is legendary. i've finally changed from propack to p5 only because of nested folders and the plug-in from reiss. normally this would be a free upgrade for p4 but there you go. :P i'm doing all renderings in max anyway. anybody who worked with v2 (let alone v3) won't touch don & judy anymore. i hope it will be the same with p5 when dazstudio finally comes. ;)

Its unlikely that we will ever create anything Poser5 specific, as there is little that is specific to Poser5 that warrants it.

Well... All the dynamic clothes are P5 specific. AND they will potentially fit ANY character from Posette to V3, so I'd say there would be a rather huge market for it as soon as people learned to USE dynamic clothes (I am not one of those L)

The Cloth Room is actually a complicated Max plug-in called Stitch, which was rewritten slightly and put in Poser. It was never really designed for this type of application, and is not terribly easy to use/understand. Taking a snippet of software designed to do anything, and putting it in a program where people expect consistency and pre-setup, doesnt really equate to the ability of a company with a broad range of users to be able to develop for it. Bear in mind that people who buy a plug-in like Stitch learn those plug-ins specific ins and outs so that they can produce a 2D animation product. Not a 3D interactive model product.

All the figures that have come have been well worth the money. There is the fact, that over time, some will be less desirable. V3's capabilities are a bit advanced, technology will prove her to be well worth the cost for all the work put into her creation. Posette and her sisters are queens when it comes to rendering an animation in any decent time. One day, V3 will take the crown.

Judy hasn't taken off because of the V2 model, all her morphs and clothing. Wasn't she worth the price at the time?

Don just didn't have the morphs to compete with Mike. He was a nice alternative to the Dork, but he again fell second to the ladies.

DAZ has, up to date, been producing the better model.

The Maya Doll, which I might add is free, is a quality model, runs like Posette, has better features than Judy, textures are being made as we speak, has already been modified to use Vicky's textures, and can wear some of her clothes. Did I mention that all this is free? She just needs the public to play with their magnets and come up with some morphs.

DAZ is not here to cater to the Poser community, even though few have had a bigger part contributing to what Poser has become.

DAZ is not the only source for models, but has certainly kept up to date with the times. I wish everyone would stop pushing the Daz Studio issue. Just like the models, another Poser will come along. The question is, what are you willing to sacrifice for quality?

DON'T RUSH DAZ STUDIO, DO IT RIGHT!

Thank you.

Agreed - get it right before releasing on an innocent world. Let's not have another Victoria 3 followed by patch, after patch, after patch (and so on) scenario if at all possible :)

iamonk, where can you find the Maya Doll? I found support features for her in freestuff, but not the actual figure :)

Attached Link: http://www.3digitalcrafts.net/studiomaya/1download/mdb/

thanks :)

V3 was designed to induce people to buy a whole family of new products by making all V2 stuff obsolete. It's an old strategy and one that seems to have worked this time ... Stephanie didn't really take off,nor did Dina and the like. I have used hybrids in the past, and will continue to do so. I use a P4/Mike called Bobby often to add characters to a scene with a lowered "weight". I delayed buying both Mike and Vicky in part to wait until enough a wardrobe had been developed to sustain most story lines I use. Also, my old computer couldn't handle two Mikes and two Vickies with clothes until I bought a more powerful computer. The same applies to V3. The qualitative difference between V3 vs V2 isn't as great as between P4 and V1/2 and doesn't justify buying another more powerful computer and a whole wardrobe to match. If someone hasn't invested a whole lot in old stuff, then going straight to V3 makes sense, if the computer is powerful enough. Bottom line: keep making variations of your clothes that will fit V1/V2 by morphs for the purpose or with a second variant. Some folks are doing that already. I makes business sense to provide a product that covers the transition.

I think that Daz3d and Curious labs should merge instead of grow apart. While competition is good, CL has made the universe (so to speak) and DAZ the people and things that populate that universe. I am very sure that DAZ makes the best products available and I really applaud the whole concept of a universal figure that can be anything we want. On the other hand, CL has created a low cost super program that boasts features that are not available to a "low cost" customer base. They provided a great deal of content with Poser 5 (I saw names I recognized when the program booted), a figure family, lots of hair, pre-set materials, lots of dynamic clothing, etc. I am aware of some of the EULA history between DAZ and CL, but why would CL insist on a charge for hair, and face room driven products from DAZ when clearly the relationship was so symbiotic in the first place? These companies were not competitors, and should not become so. I don't see how DAZ is going to create a Studio that can touch Poser 5 in less than five years. I don't see how CL can increase the quality of it's native content to match DAZ quality ever. On one hand, DAZ/Studio (free perhaps?) with great content, on the other, software with powerful features, reasonable content. If the two companies merged, I think there would be less time/money lost to both these companies and all of the community, and the results would be incredible and realized much sooner.

Oh, by the way, I was also wondering where to get Maya Doll! Thank you sandoppe! I'm off!

Never under estiamte the power of the Force... er or determined company full of bright, innovative people. ;)

I think that was the perfect thing to say right there?

Doh! Sorry about the question mark, lousy proofreading. Homer's Voice.

if you do your deep research ( like i did) you'll find out who help make don and judy, and who was part of the project of putting it together. i mean there isn't too many sites devoted to don and judy stuff.,, cause you sure as hell won't see nothing on DAZ pertaining to these models. they won't even sell there software. P4 is way better than P5 , ( i've seen P5, and i don't need more grey hair) annd i will AWALYS wait on DAZ, they take their time to please us with great quailty products and service. as for CL and there support team. welli was 44 when i asked a tech question about something, and i just turned 45 2 days ago, and finally got a runaround answer from them 2 days ago. i really think that CL has bitten off more than it can chew. meanwhile DAZ is working hard for us to bring us something new and different. something they know they want to be perfect. they don't wantthe same crap CL been getting this past year or so. so let them take thier time, do it right so we can all have a great product to play with. and then we can say, DAZ your the Best of the Best. the don and judy models.... such a joke like CL press announments.