Attached Link: http://www.onemodelplace.com/photographer_list.cfm/P_ID/9236

Oh No! here we go again... BTW, just checked Epilogue again. The images finally seem to be gone... However, he (the thief) is still on their list of artists but when you click on his name the artists profile comes up as a blank form - no name, age, gender, etc. - zip nada. It looks like they're finally getting their act together

Thats it I have had it! Im at my wits end, Im not exactly mentally stable to begin with and this craps pushing me over the edge! People need to be pistol whipped into submission over this crap! Rhi Im sorry this crap happens to you! HUGS Gina

Cherokee, I think that's a tad harsh. Newbies such as myself don't have anything in the galleries, or no marketplace or freestuff contributions (well, not yet anyway....I plan to do all of the above :)) ) regards, Andrew

cherokee69 then you'll have to throw me out... it's okay though I'll be in good company Dan Farr, Steve Cooper, maclean, and Tim Choate all fit the above criteria for "booting" :-)

Actually, people dont need to be a member to browse the gallery. So that doesnt matter Just a thought!

cherokee that's way harsh. I didn't have a gallery here 'til recently. I have a gallery elsewhere, and I usually only come here to peruse forums and buy stuff.

cherokee69
My name is skee and I am offended by the statements you just made in the above post. I hope that you were just kidding or trying to be funny.

1. I don't have anything in freestuff
2. I only have one picture in the gallery (from way back)
3. I am not a thief
4. If you really mean what you say I feel sorry for you.
5. maybe we should give people like you a time frame.
   It takes a lot to make me post something like this, I don't
   post at all very often, but somethings just make me mad.
   Sorry to all others who have to read this. skee

Oooops! I better post something quick. I just come to Rosity buy things and browse the message boards. I'll remember the name cherokee69 and not buy anything from him/her. My models are terrible (Ray Dream Studio is a tad bit out of date and it has slim possibilities) and I don't have the luxury of owning 3D Studio Max or other upscale programs so I can't create all these wonderful things for sale here. If I did, I would create my own.

All those members here that don't have any gallery images are only coming here to steal images to post elsewhere as their own. No gallery here for me, and I have not taken any art, even for my desk top. The only thing I have taken is Tons of tips and how2 and free models. How about a New Forum... "Art That Has Been Ripped Off." I don't have the answer, and I'm sure it PO the artist that has been ripped off... but I'm kinda tired of every other thread been about ripped off work. Sorry thats just me.

I keep getting the following:

Error Occurred While Processing Request
Error Diagnostic Information
ODBC Error Code = 37000 (Syntax error or access violation)

[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]The log file for database 'live_db' is full. Back up the transaction log for the database to free up some log space.

SQL = "omp_counter_photographer"

Data Source = "LIVE_DB"

The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFSTOREDPROC), occupying document position (81:1) to (81:120) in the template file C:clientOMP-livefoliosphotographer_list.cfm.

Date/Time: 07/22/03 23:18:32
Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
Remote Address: 172.175.34.229
HTTP Referrer: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=1348484

Everything I buy or "take" from freebies (not too many freebies for me because I'd rather purchase) I enter into my database with the artist's name, file name, image, etc., so if I do use it I know who to credit. Not that I've ever used any of the models commercially, but just in case.

Members of Rosity have to have a gallery of their own images. People without a gallery, nothing in free stuff or the market place, or not contributing something to Rosity should be booted. Well, correct me if Im wrong, but by members being here at all are contributing to this site..no members, no site. All those members here that don't have any gallery images are only coming here to steal images to post elsewhere as their own. Now this statement really burns my butt...Im not a newbie, and I HAD a gallery here awhile back..removed it for my own reasons..Im not a thief either.. I have galleries elsewhere..I have never taken ANYTHING from here, except good advice. Awfully presumptious of you to accuse alot of members of being thieves just because they do not have images posted here...>:(

I dont have a gallery here BECAUSE this issue keeps coming up over and over and over again. Just when I'm ready to set all my fears aside and throw up some images and create a gallery, BLAM! another one of these art thief threads starts and I go hiding back into my corner. Everytime one of these threads comes up we should mass email Microsoft and tell them to figure out a way to stop the print screening, right click save as IF we want that function disabled. "new from Remco it's ImageSafe, that's right tired of having your images riped off? Yes Bob I am. Well Don't you fret, ImageSafe throws a protective sheild around your image and wont let those pesky theives copy, right click, print, chop, tube, or send nasty troll messges at your image. That's right ImageSafe from Remco." damn wish I had that.

"All those members here that don't have any gallery images are only coming here to steal images to post elsewhere as their own." I do have a gallery, but even I'm offended by that statement. In fact, I'm tempted to delete my gallery just for the hell of it now. Not that anyone ever goes there. snif, whine Seriously, I really, really hope the above is not the view of most people here. I'm certain there are plenty of members who come here to buy, to get advice, and to download the freebies. A lot of people may not feel comfortable showing their work here. I know of at least one damn good artist who was here for over a year before I talked them into posting their work.

Hon, I think it's dangerous to assume that just because someone doesn't have a gallery, freestuff or a store means they are thieves. For instance, I hung around this place for over a year and a half before I ever even posted to a forum, much less images or freebies. I was just here to soak up the experience of those already in the know about things I knew nothing about at that time - namely 3D. The thief blanket won't cover every member here. Don't toss it out over the crowd...you are already offending people. Laurie

read Chimerons post about pistol whipping and cringes making a note not to tick Chimeron off~~ ok sorry but I worry of it..have had it done to me and have had graphics stolen..and I still post {hello I am Dark Elegance and I am a compulsive poster} and actually I have tried to link people here to see a piece I have posted and they cant unless they join. I dont know what is the answer anymore. I try to put my sig right smack dab across the sucker. but I know as it has been stated a good clone tool and someone that is willing to put the effort in....~sighs~ Please what IS the answer? and Rhi I am so sorry that you have to go through this again.

Folks, if you don't post your art, nobody will steal it. Sorry, but I've really had enough of this poor poor me stuff. I buy from here, I post messages here, but you won't see me posting my artwork for ooohs and ahhhs (y'all are gods and godesses!) and then complaining because it is taken and posted elsewhere. The internet is a mess... it isn't going to get any better. If you post stuff, you are just gonna have to put up with the thievery because there isn't much that you can do about it. Sorry, but let's be a bit realistic here.

No, that view that not having a gallery/freestuff = thief is not the general feeling here. At least it better not be. I've signed my friends up here who come and browse the gallerys, because they like good art. That's it, they have no gallerys of their own. They are not thieves. The only time I wonder about someone not having a gallery is when you meet a lovely troll...

The internet is a mess... it isn't going to get any better. If you post stuff, you are just gonna have to put up with the thievery because there isn't much that you can do about it. Altho the internet is indeed over-run with thieves, the attitude that nothing can be done about it, is in fact the reason people get away with it IMO..not enough people are willing to get involved to get it to slow down, if not to stop. Not a personal jab at you Petunia, just used your statement to show the general attitude that abounds in our digital world ;)

If you don't want your art stolen, then the only "protection" is to place a watermark layer on the image. Make it faint, of course, but have it run through the core part of the image. If you make it very very faint, everyone can still enjoy the image, and you can be sure the thieves will not want to use it as a SHOW piece. They may still claim the image (and having put the watermark there to protect "THEIR" iamge), but it will keep many from posting them in other forums. Other than that, you are screwed. It you try to embed digital signiture type information inside the binary information of the file, thieves can still bypass this by taking a snapshot of the whole screen and editing it out in Photoshop. Instant picture, no digital signature.

Folks, if you don't post your art, nobody will steal it. Sorry, but I've really had enough of this poor poor me stuff. I buy from here, I post messages here, but you won't see me posting my artwork for ooohs and ahhhs (y'all are gods and godesses!) and then complaining because it is taken and posted elsewhere. -------- erm alot of people post here so their work is veiwed by possible clients..not just to get ohh and ahhs. also we have a right to show our work and not fear that someone will take it. to say that ohh well it is gonna happen live with it...sorry I dont buy that. that is like saying ohh well sooner or later you are gonna be robed might as well give the stuff over now.

"All those members here that don't have any gallery images are only coming here to steal images to post elsewhere as their own" Well, it's Open Mouth Insert Foot time, I guess, huh? Like the others mentioned up there, I guess I must be a thief because I don't got no gallery and no store. Look, some of us post images because we can't get our work seen anywhere else. Some of us post because we just like sharing it with everyone else. Some of us DONT post because we're still learning the damn program and would appreciate it if folk like you would just knock it off and let us enjoy it a little. Yeah, it's lousy when an image gets stolen; no doubt about it. But at least this community is aware enough to see it when it happens and then act on it. Like a few others, I posted a pretty harsh little post at Epilogue telling that loser to get a life. But that's one of the reasons why this is a community, not just a bunch of people logging onto the same site when the mood strikes us. And as long as we CAN track down these losers and expose them for what they are, the other losers out there are gonna be less inclined to try anything. Boy, where's Legume when you need him? :-{)

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Rhiannon I am so sorry this horrible things happens to you! And I am so glad that you speak up!!! And I wish you a lot of strenghs to continue to create wonderful things! BonBonish P.S. I am agree with skee!!!! Many people who come to visit my gallery do not have any - gallery, freestuff and don't sell anything in RO. I know that because--> For example --many people come to see my gallery because they know me personally, know my works that are not poser-related, and they just love my things doesn't matter if they are prose, serious writings, soft-sculptures, short movies or poser renders.

I do have a gallery here and don't look at it unless you want to laugh at my efforts because I suck at doing artwork on the computer. In my humble opinion if someone takes the time to browse and find my artwork be it computer(which stinks) or stuff I do on paper with ink, pencil whatever and decides to use it claim it as their own I take it as a compliment. Don't get me wrong but anything I think is worth protecting I just copywrite and if I see it being used I have legal recourse. I know it is a bit nieve of me to think I could catch all illegal use of my art so I will try the watermark idea I saw above. One last thought from my scrabbled mind but have those that have had their art "ripped off" ever used an image that they have seen in their own art work? I wonder if that would or could be considered a form of stealing? Anyhow as my art professor once said you can't create anything that hasn't been done before only your version of it. Happy rendering CobaltDragon

"All those members here that don't have any gallery images are only coming here to steal images to post elsewhere as their own." I had a membership here way back in 2000 (I know if you look at my profile it says 2002, but if you could see my purchase history, you'd see it goes back to 2000; my membership expired at some point and I only renewed it last year). I only started posting images to the gallery here in 2003, because I wanted to become more involved in the Poser community, rather than just purchasing stuff and doing my own thing. And you know what? In all that time that I never posted anything, I didn't steal even ONE image from ANYONE'S gallery, how amazing! I also have a membership at a couple other Poser sites where I don't post images. At a couple of those, I don't post images or participate in the forums. I have the membership so that I can buy items from their store on occasion. And you know what? I never stole any images from there, either. As a matter of fact, I have never, ever, in my entire life posted or shared or otherwise claimed that any picture (digital or traditional) was mine unless it actually was, regardless of how many art sites in which I have a membership and do or don't post there actively. Your assumption is seriously flawed. Perhaps a course in logical reasoning might be in order. bonni

Not only don't I steal from the galleries, but I don't even LOOK at the galleries. I don't CARE what other people are doing with Poser or Bryce or what have you. I come here to learn, keep up to date on the latest improvements to the software, discover new uses for old items and things like that. I am not an artist, don't want to be an artist, and will smack the living daylights out of anyone who accuses me of being an artist (insert smart alecky grin here). My gallery (pitiful as it may be) and my freestuff are on my personal website. My store consists of one (count 'em, one) product, which I'm sure will join the other two I once had which were deleted for lack of sales. Once that final item is gone, I won't have a store here. Don't care either, I'm not here for the money. And I'm damn sure not here for the "art". Kate (who is here for her own reasons as is everyone else)

"All those members here that don't have any gallery images are only coming here to steal images to post elsewhere as their own." ... I don't have a gallery here, either... and I've spent a small fortune on lawyers combatting people who have stolen my copyrighted works. Accusing all of us as thieves is so extreme as to be laughable, if it wasn't also a blast at our reputations as professionals. We are all members of this community. Carolly

sigh There's a whole raft of reasons why people dont have galleries here. Such statements as Cherokees are at best defamatory, and at worst totally libelous. hey, get the chip off your shoulder. As part of 3dmodelz, I see our work being stolen/shared/distributed on a daily basis. What do we do about it.....mostly nothing. Sometimes, we'll drop an IM saying tut-tut.....mostly though, we do nothing. If we chose to do something about all the copyright violations we wouldn't actually have time to make anything else for anyone to steal. And, fuck it, we ain't Metallica.....

Has anyone contacted the administrators for onemodelplace.com or the parent company tvtaxi.com regarding this copyright violation?

nukem

Cherokee's post has mysteriously been deleted! "we have a right to show our work and not fear that someone will take it. to say that ohh well it is gonna happen live with it...sorry I dont buy that. that is like saying ohh well sooner or later you are gonna be robed might as well give the stuff over now" Not really, because copyright violation is different from ordinary theft. Theft: You have something, I steal it. Now you don't have it anymore, I have it. Copyright violation: You have something, I steal it. You still have it. Not quite so bad. Yes, you have a right to show your work without someone copying it, but it's a bit like Graham Chapman in "Life of Brian" demanding the right to have a baby. Yes, Graham, you have the right ... but you can't actually do it. If it really disturbs you, then the watermarking solution is the only practical one to follow.

It was Eric Idle, not Graham Chapman. And he wanted to be called Loretta. ;) (Sorry, hardcore Pythonite, can't let that go without a comment.) I actually agree that copyright violation isn't quite as bad as outright theft, but if it happens enough, it can actually rob someone of real income. If someone illegally copies a hit product (as happened recently here at Renderosity, not mentioning any names) and people buy THAT product instead of the original (because it's cheaper, because they see it first, etc.), then the originator of the work is actually losing money. If a design company pays for one copy of Photoshop and then uses it on seven different workstations with seven different workers, then Adobe is losing the money they should have made for those six additional workstations. Granted, most images here don't fall into categories of that sort, but my point was actually that some forms of copyright violation DO end up being actual theft, or at least measurable loss. bonni

Ah but now we're talkning Warez which imo is a whole different matter. "stealing" images is one thing. Making and using illegal copies of software is another. Sure both things are basically theft, but to a degree. If I post a picture and someone takes it, what do I loose? The picture? No, coz that's still on my Hard Disk. Money? No, since I wasn't selling the image anyway. Those who DO sell their art... I HOPE that what they sell is something better than a medium res jpg!!! Sure I can take a picture here and print it, but the resolution is BAD! I have tried with some of my own images, printing both the tiff and the jpg version of them in A4 size (approx. Letter for those unaquainted with the A4 format) While they looked almost alike on my monitor, there were GREAT difference in the print! And if we're talking Poster sizes the difference would be so huge that the jpg version would be unusable. It's not without a reason that printing houses want PSD's or TIFFs. And if you don't want anybody else pretending they made your art (I don'tunderstand why somone would want to pretend that in the first place, but as shown here they DO) then WATERMARK it with your name! And do it somewhere where it can't be removed without destroying the picture.

I hate to put it this way but it true anything you upload to the internet becomes at risk, when you upload something you need to consider that you are allowing it out of your control when it leaves your computer, It's sad that people will steal it and sell it, But this is what you need to think about when you upload it, want to know something else? they probably signed up here to get into the gallery. So your thief may be a new member at renderosity. Here is what I think should be done all gallery images should be rigged to alert the staff when a right click occures giving them the name of the member who did it.

Well at least your picture of the busty nude woman in the bathtub made it in the 'artistic nude' gallery :P I've been studying that photo intensely, admiring your photographic techniques.

Ernyoka said the magic word there. Get yourself a tool for watermarking your art if you want to upload and be confident that it won't be used anywhere else. Sure... it ruins some part of the picture. But it clearly labels the work as your own. Think of it as a signature and not as a nuisance.

A right-click monitoring and policing system just won't work. First of all, such a system has no way of determining intent. Not every right-click is an attempt to steal an image for redistribution. Also, the system wouldn't work against users sifting through their browser caches for the image, or users performing screen captures.

Besides not distributing your work at all, the only practical solution is the watermarking technique. Thieves, whether out in the real world or on the Internet, love convenience. Anything that takes too long to steal, they'll give up on. If you use a watermark that'd take a large amount of time to doctor out of an image, they'll give up on it and move on.

For those of you who are very serious about protecting your work, digital watermarking services with web spiders would probably be the way to go. Digimarc is one such service whose web spiders can search up to 50 million images on the publically available Internet and notify you automatically on the findings. But like I said, only for the very serious, because costs can add up if you're very productive since their watermarking AND image tracking service is based on the total amount of images marked.

nukem

...forgot to mention that Digimarc's watermarking technology is imperceptible to the human eye, so your images' display value will be uncompromised.

nukem

I actually use digimark on some of my images..When I signed up with them it was under the conditions that I mark no more than 100 per year..any more than that per year and I'd have to pay...dont know if this deal is still going on for new signups, but thats what mine was...

It's really sad when someone steals an image and pretends it's their own. And it is very hard to swallow.

But some of the 'solutions' I'm reading here border on the ludicrous. The internet does not revolve around us no matter what the egos in us say.

"Everytime one of these threads comes up we should mass email Microsoft and tell them to figure out a way to stop the print screening, right click save as IF we want that function disabled."

Utterly selfish. Your artwork is not the only thing on the 'net. There are many reasons for saving images. Store product images, science sites, NASA images, family sites with photos to share with other family members.

"we have a right to show our work and not fear that someone will take it."

No you don't, actually. What you DO have is recourse if there is a copyright violation.

"Here is what I think should be done all gallery images should be rigged to alert the staff when a right click occures giving them the name of the member who did it."

Uh huh. Right-clicking is not just for saving images. There are other items on the menu. Besides which just saving an image to disk does not constitute theft or copyright infringement unless you display it elsewhere.

I also read somewhere a suggestion that Renderosity institute some means of image protection in the galleries.

Consider this. What if a book publisher is browsing the galleries and wishes to save a few images for comparison later. You wouldn't want to anger them by disallowing access.

Or you've sent your dear old mom the link to your gallery. What if she wants to save your images to disk for herself. Why make it hard for her.

The truth is that the vast majority of people viewing your images are NOT taking them to claim them as their own.

Jumpstartme2, Sounds like you came in on a good sign-up deal. They changed their account structure so now you pay for total number of images marked. nukem

A couple of things...#1 I will never post any pics here(only 1 site I post at)..and it's not because I'm afraid of stealing...frankly I'm just not good enough..maybe a couple years from now. I would never and have never stolen a damn thing!!!! The only thing I could possibly be guilty of is not giving credit to the original artist on some of the items...the libraries get so huge I can't possibly remember all of them...and as a newbie I never even thought of keeping a database log with all the artists name etc...I would do my best though. #2. Stealing art to me is like lying on ones resume. You can steal all you want...but if you EVER get a job based on the stolen artwork, you will eventually get caught when you can't produce in real time. Sure you could spend all day surfing the web looking for that stolen image to fullfill your employers request..but you will get caught...and the humiliation that person will suffer & would probably be black balled for life in that community. And in some areas one could even possibly be jailed. Imagine saying you were accountant, get a job doing that, and then not being able to perform. Same difference IMHO. They just now have the technology to catch plagerism...ie stealing other peoples term papers. Soon I imagine the same technology will be used to catch art theives &other types of thieves. These people will eventually get there dues...what goes around comes around.

Spit, that was a very well thought-out post. For me, being able to save the beautiful, bizarre, and humorous images I find online is one of the only reasons I even bother going online. Are we not supposed to save text files and videos either because technically they're copyrighted materials too? I would never claim to have created someone else's work, but I'll do whatever I need to do to save an image that I like. I suppose if you really wanted to deter thieves, you could make your images 2000x1850 or some other ridiculous size and then disable right-clicking. IE 6 will auto-shrink it to fit the window, but the detail will be lost. Printscreen won't get the entire image in one shot either, and most thieves won't bother pasting together the pieces, especially if it scrolls the browser window both horizontally and vertically. Of course, I and the many other honest image-savers won't bother trying either. :) SnowS

Actually, SnowS, I encounted a program that can do multi-region capture with auto-scroll (horz. and vert.) and auto-stitching. And unfortunatley, making HUGE images isn't really practical. It'll just drive up the bandwidth costs for online galleries. nukem

... and what's the point of having an image so big that the viewers can't see it all?

I think SnowSultan wasn't being serious about doing giant graphics. The only ways to absolutely protect your graphics are to not post or share them or to do such terrible ones that no one wants them. (I chose the latter route myself.) When I first got on the Internet, I thought everything was free because it was so easy to copy and save what I wanted. Why would they put it on the Internet and make it available to me if they didn't want me to have it? I know better now but a lot of people still have that mentality. I work in a library and I know people rip pages out of extremely expensive art books, and then they will say, "I'm a tax payer, you bought this book with my taxes, it's mine to do with what I want." That fact that they ruined the book for the use of anyone else makes no difference to these selfish people. If you have made copies from a magazine or book and shared those copies with your closest 15 or 200 friends (pretending you have the right to do so because the copier is right there and they wouldn't have it there if it wasn't legal to print endless copies), if you have scanned magazines, if you've downloaded music without paying for it, if you've downloaded images without permission of the artist, if you've taken little movie clips from the television or DVD or videotape and sent them from friend to friend without having the rights to do so, you've stolen from someone. And so have I. I'm not saying I've never done it or been tempted to do it. It is all so easy. So what makes us think someone won't steal from us? It's the mentality of the world we live in. And I doubt if any of the elaborate schemes I've read lately to protect the art will really do any good. As fast as someone comes up with an idea, someone else is gleefully thinking of a way around it. I know....I'm just being negative. But it's the truth.

Dialyn, I don't think you're being negative ... just realistic. It's true, there will always be someone who copies your stuff or downloads things or claims your work as their own. Happens all the time, and always will. We've all hit that right click button, for whatever reason. Seems there are only a few options to "try" and discourage it ... don't display your work, or use a watermark type system. Of course, watermarking doesn't guarantee it won't be taken ... just that it might be less inviting to take it. So, I suppose all we can do is make the choice, and if/when you discover someone is using your work illegally or what-have-you, call 'em on it and make the copyright laws work for you ... you can bet that I will do so. But, I'm not gonna' worry about it anymore, it is a waste of time and energy. I agree with Spit ... the vast majority of folks are not looking to cheat or steal or whatever. And thanks so much Petunia, for recognizing the Goddess in me ... yes, I am the Goddess of Art! Ooohs and Ahhhs are the sole reason I get up in the morning. ha!

Personally, I'm not all that worried about it. When it happens to me and I find out about it (and it has, and I have), I take steps to get the images removed from wherever they're being used improperly, and I've been known to give the offender an earful (well, an eyeful, I guess, since it's almost always in written form). On a couple of occasions, I've gotten people's accounts removed (not that it stops them; they just get an account elsewhere, but it inconvieniences them). Digimarc, by the way, now charges a license fee for ALL use, and the more you want to use it, the more it'll cost you. Also, it's quite easy to remove a Digimarc watermark. It doesn't even take a great deal of know-how to do it. I use a visible but subtle watermark with a distinctive and rather large signature. To remove it, the thief would have to work fairly dilligently and delicately with a clone tool, and most thieves aren't interested in doing too much work (else they'd make their own images). The sleazebags who steal images to make image tubes look for pictures with a plain or mostly plain background, and then they just cut out the main image, so if you make your watermark fall over parts of the main image or use a complex background, tubers will be discouraged and will go on to something easier. I'm absolutely aware that people can and DO take anything they can get their hands on. If I spent all my time worrying about it, I wouldn't have any energy or time to make anything new, and I refuse to let the wannabes and thieves rob me of my time and energy that way. Like I said, when and if I learn of it, I make the appropriate complaints to the appropriate sources, and I do a followup and then I pretty much go on to do other things. I understand people being pissed off (I know it pisses me off!), but I think of it more as being annoyed with mosquitoes or fleas in the summertime. I'm not going to let it ruin my enjoyment of the outdoors, although I do take steps to repel and/or stop the pests. bonni

I think SnowSultan wasn't being serious about doing giant graphics.<< LOL, I actually was, since I have saved many images that are quite larger than the size of my screen. I'm looking at a saved picture right now that's 2041x1483 (???). I've got 129 images in one directory alone that are larger than my screen size of 1024x768, so giant images are nothing new to me. :) Bandwidth is indeed an issue though like nukem said, although pirates probably wouldn't want to mess with stitching, resizing, and reducing the size of a 600K picture either. Unless they've got that program that you also mentioned though... ;) But in general, yes, there doesn't seem to be real way to protect images unless you watermark them. SnowS

Apologies to SnowSultan. I so hate giant graphics that I won't look at them on the galleries...it never occurred to me that would be a viable solution. Many thanks for the clarification.