I suppose this isn't a specific question that can be easily answered, but I feel bothered about recent events in the gallery. I've always felt very comfortable coming here, asking questions, answering the very few I can (!), reading posts, posting images in the gallery. It took me over a year to work up the nerve to post an image, I was so intimidated by the great stuff there, but everyone was so kind and welcoming to me, and very helpful with suggestions as well.

It seems like all of a sudden, lately, strange things are going on in the gallery, though. One individual decided to go against the Renderosity Terms of Service, and be dishonest about comments, ratings, and voting, I suppose to get their stuff into the Hot 20 or something. This same person keeps coming back with similar or now a new name. This is just plain dishonest, no buts about it. And it's caused Guitta and the admins a lot of extra work. Now, we've had an individual with an empty homepage and no gallery trolling the gallery and making nasty comments on images and voting images very low. For what reason? Just to be mean? To impose their ideas on all of us? My mom always told me that it's best to either say something postive, or not to say anything. If it's constructive criticism, that's one thing, but when it's just plain mean, that's another. None of us are required to make a comment, a vote, or a ranking when we view an image; I look at a lot of images at Renderosity, and don't comment/rank/vote on most of what I see in the other galleries. But to purposefully make snide remarks and low rankings...what is the point of that?

One result of all this is that one of my favorite people and Vue artists has left the site. This is a person who was kind and helpful to me and many other people, who never did anything mean to anyone. Another result is that I don't feel very comfortable here; I feel like my trust is being betrayed or something like that. I see good and well-meaning people's trust being abused. A third result is the extra work things like this cause to Guitta and the other Renderosity staff; no wonder we don't see may images from Guitta in the gallery any more, to our loss, since things like this have to take up her time.

I don't suppose there is really anything we can do, as users at least, to fix this. In the online world, just like the real world, there are always people who want to take advantage of other people, because they have some type of problem. I want to thank Guitta for all her hard work to try and keep this a safe and good place for all of us to share. Maybe if we all stay vigilant, and try to help Guitta by doing so, we can cut some of these problems off at the start.

Dear Djeser, I totally think the same - but please don't be too upset. I still like this area because of all the nice people we find here at the Vue forum. For me this forum always was outstanding because of the friendlyness which lives here. Hoping with you and all other real Vue fellows that the feeling will become better again, yours, Bernie P.S. Guitta - you are making a hard job very good!

You are quite right in what you say about the online world mirroring the real world, there will, unfortunatly, always be an element of the disruptive when the site is this big and popular as it is. As for not feeling very comfortable here, I would just like to say that I feel quite the reverse, yourself and all the rest of the regular contributers to both the forum and the gallery make this site one of first that I visit almost every day. I also echo your comments concerning gebe, this forum couldn't what for anyone better. At the end of the day, this site is only as good as its contributers, and if certain artists decide to leave because of a small minority of idiots then the idiots have won. What is needed is as you say, vigilance.

I totally agree with Sentinal. I think best is to discuss the issue here and then ignore those idiots. As far as i remember we had a similar issue which cameg up whee the Iraq war happened. Some glorifying war images. Best here, beside the background work of Guitta and the rest of the admins, is, to bore this idiots by not reacting. They're gone very soon, i'm sure. What could help, beside all others, is going back to the "old" days of voting. Where you were able to see every individuals vote together with the comment. So nobody can hide himself/herself in a croud of other voters. Perhaps that is a solution.

Hmm... I've been on vacation for a while and it seems I'm not completely updated. Who's trolling? I haven't heard, read, or met anyone unpleasent for a looooong time in the Vue-gallery. And also... who's left Renderosity in the Vue-gallery because of trolling? Please don't be worried Djeser! :) And I agree with Walther. Why did Rendero start to make the votes concieled? A ranking isn't a justifyable ranking, if the "ranker" wishes to stay anonyomus! That's just my 2 cents... - Thomas

Hi, Sure they are idiots that rank pictures very low just 'for the fun' or to destroy... I don't know... But there is another problem. What is really the meaning of ranking a picture. Even if we dont see the points anymore, the final result is the mean value of the votes (excellent = 10, great = 9 , good = 8, .... ) So you may have 50 rankings for your picture (49 excellent and 1 great) and your picture disappear in the last pages of the ranking because it is less ranked that a picture with only one vote 'excellent'. (see for example from the page 61 in the best ranked pictures)... We have to vote in such a manner that ranking has a meaning... or stop .... If you can't vote anything else that 'Excellent' it is useless.... That's why I dont allow ranking anymore on my pictures. Patrick

For the problem of idiots giving stupid comments, that can happen from time to time and I know it's very boring when it happen to you. The best is to report these person to the moderator or to renderosity admin, if the comments is really and obviously too stupid, useless,...Comments must be constructive and usefull ...And then to try to forget, it's not easy I know ;=) Concerning the problem of ranking I never give a rank nor never allow to rank my pictures; I agree it has no real meaning. My opinion is renderosity admin should take the ratio of (number of visit / number of comments) to calculate a rank ; if a picture is very very good it will have a high percentage of comment. Of course it should be done only if the number of visits is significant (>10 or > 20). The advantage of that is very often we can see very good pictures with only a few visit (in 2D or photography gallery, but also in others...) and the ratio allow to account for that ;=) Maybe I should suggest that to renderosity admin Yves

Djes, think of it is this way ... I'm driving in the expressway, all of a sudden a "super" driver overtake me such a way that almost hit me. Well, I drive a fast car too, but that doesn't mean I'll chase him ... cuz I know if I ignore him he'll disapper in no time. Such an imaginative way of saying, eh! :-) I do agree with Sentinel & Wabe. I had a post several days ago about some relevent issue, then I realize giving attention to them is just waste of time. I'm here to follow & learn from the best, no point of wasting time behind morons. :-) However, Patrick & Yves gave me something to think about the ratings. Maybe I'll follow Patrick from my next image. PS. It's good to see you back Yves, hope you have some great images in your sleves to show us. :-)

If you don't let them get under your skin and just ignore them. (except for reporting them) Most times they will stop and go away.

It is a pity for the morale of the artists to have their image ranked down after they had worked hard and managed to get an excellent. I didn't enjoy yesterday's event as I have come to know the artists and their works and felt for them under the situation. On the other hand this incident did highlight the ranking issue. As a result of yesterday's 'ranking down', the images that didn't get hit, remained excellent and the ones that did get hit ranged from good to great. This was the first time that a page of pictures showed anything but excellent (rarely great) or nothing. It can be upsetting to have your image ranked lower when you thought it was the best picture you ever did, but this has helped me over the past 3 months to produce images much better than I anticipated. It's hard not to identify images by excellent or nothing but do its generally based on the number of ranks (and/or comments). This is also not a true indicator either as many well known artists in Vue and other galleries have such a great following of fans that they get many comments because they are on many people's favourites lists. Even when they don't do a great one (happens to every artist throught-out history). Also, if you change your rendering tool, and therefore your gallery, you take your fans, that have you on their favourite lists, and get a new lot of fans from the next gallery. Most people in the other galleries don't know my art exists, but I do sometimes get a comment come through :). There are many complex ranking systems but many fail as there is generally a hole in them or they are abused (look at the Olympics, its very difficult to even find the fastest person... no drugs, bionics, amature, genetics...rules/caveats). In many areas ranking is often done by professionals (those that have a proven success in that field). This can be the same for these galleries. The artists that have highly ranked images over time get more weight. Artists that have contributed images over time get more weight. Artists that have ranked other images over time get more weight. Finally non-contributors over time get some weight. All these weights add up so a great artist that contributes, gets ranked well and also ranks gets weighted the most. Artists that stop ranking others and/or contributing begin to lose their weight (over a long time). This system would have to have a ceiling as a single rank from a 'brilliant' artist would tip the scales. This may control some of the problems. Just food for thought sacada

I too would like to thank Guitta for taking such prompt action over the person who hyped his own images under different assumed names, and then had the temerity to make an immediate return from his ban by making a tiny and obvious change to his username. (BTW, why are we so shy of actually naming names here? - I'll go along with what appears to be the convention, but I see no reason to shield the identity of a cheat - and in fact the previous sentence makes it pretty clear to all who saw the posts who we are talking about.) Thankfully, I have not personally noticed the other reported outbreak of trolling to gratuitously down-rate other people's images. If the perpetrator can be discovered, he/she should be given similarly summary justice and banned forthwith. To Djeser and others who may share his unease, please remember it's only one (or now maybe two) rotten apples in the barrel. The rest seem pretty sound individuals to me, and the Forum remains a pleasant and helpful place to visit each day. Don't let the misguided and dishonest activities of the occasional rogue spoil your enjoyment or participation in the Forum. It is after all a microcosm of society as a whole, so inevitably the occasional bad guy will turn up. It is sad that a few people seem to have such fragile egos and craving for public acclamation that they are prepared to stoop to such levels. They are not only rather pathetic figures, but also very naive. It is seldom that their activities will go unnoticed for long, and once reported a ban and/or public shaming are the very likely, and wholly appropriate, results; I am all in favourof a zero-tolerance policy. It is even sadder when the individual concerned actually has talent and produces good work anyway, so has little to benefit and everything to lose by cheating. I wouldn't personally like to see major changes to the voting system along the lines suggest by Sacada just to combat such nefarious activities, which I like to feel are very much a minority thing. I think if we are vigilant and do not hesitate to report evidence of such rigging or false claims, that should suffice, given, as is clear by the present case, that the admininstration is swift to act when notified. However, I have not been here long enough to remember a time when the ranking was not anonymous. Re-introduction of identifiable rankging (and votes) does not seem to me an unreasonable premise. I have personally never used any ranking lower than Good, because like Djeser I believe in saying nothing if I have nothing positive to say. And I see no reason why if we are prepraed to make a ranking or give a vote, we should not be equally prepared to sign our name to it. So I would support that proposal.

I agree that anonymous ranking just invites misuse and we should making ranking identifiable but the problems is that most of these jokers who rank low are not regular members and couldnt care less if we ban them or not. Maybe, if this problem become rampant, we could have period of time before new members are allowed to rank images. Most of the trollers want to cause havoc as quickly as possible and dont have the attention span to hang around. I dont know if this will help or not; its just a thought.

Hi David I agree - it is most likely that such spoilers are either not regular members... or possibly someone with an axe to grind and retribution in mind. But frankly, I don't care whether they care about a ban or not, just so long as we get rid of them ASAP and take whatever measures are technically possible to prevent them returning under a pseudonym. Incidentally, lest any new-ish members should find all this rather disturbing, perhaps it's as well to make clear that it is not just a problem on this forum - indeed it seems a rare occurrence here to me, this being one of the better behaved and more civilised places I have visited. I have seen similar activities elsewhere, and I suspect most forums of this nature on any subject tend to suffer the occasional fool who tries to spoil it for others for whatever motive. So for the good guys: hang together and don't vote with your feet. It is always sad when a giving and talented individual (you will know who I mean, and I hope you will reconsider) leaves a forum over such petty antics - the loss makes the impact the greater for the rest of us, and in a sense plays into the hands of the buffoon who caused the problem in the first place. There you go - my last words on the subject. (Well, for now.)

DJ Thanks for starting this thread as it does need to be discussed. Yes I pulled my gallery and some may say will the perp won. Well CrusedBeauty contiunually attacked my work and harrassed me over IM and the only way to rid myself of such an unwanted pest was to drop out until the problem can be solved. I have sent emails to admin, IM Gebe and sure the fire was put out only to rekindel in a few days under another id. Marilyn Monroe/Norma Jean some would say was a cursed beauty. We have a fire hazard you might say with no smoke alarms to speak of. So if you think I am just tucking my tail between my legs and running off think again. I will stay with this problem till a solution is found. Now I have an idea and I am not sure if it will fly so here goes. My idea is Renderosity should have the different forums Vue, Poser, Photo shop, ect. However each artist should create there own group with in the different forums. Now if you don't want a group of your own you can join all the other groups and just participate while being monitored by that group's owner. The owner of the group can do their own moderation and interact with other groups of all forums. Send out special notices, run there own contests and so on. In this way if you don't like one moderator you can move to another group that suits you or create your own and also in doing so create a following sort to speak. This will lighten the load on all the forum moderators now that will become over seers of all groups with in their particular forum. Now I don't know if they will go for it but it's worth a try. It won't keep him out but it will make him be good that is for sure. :O) Tell me what you think ok?

RDS, sorry to hear that you are one of the people who are treated so badly. I always admired your work and it is very difficult to understand that others try to attack you. I think we shouldn't be too difficult. The idea to go back to individual visible rankings seems to me the easiest way. Then, if somebody does a very unadequate ranking it is obvious and visible to all others. So the bad habit falls back. And it is easy to swallow because you know where its coming from. I would like to know what the reason was to change the system to this anonymious one. In the good old days I remember I felt a lot more honoured when i got a good ranking from a person i admire. An extra thrill. Walther

Jeez, how depressing. Hang in there, rds, and everyone else who has been trolled by losers. Your work is an inspiration to lots of us. Just remember that there are far more cool and supportive people than there are creepy trolls. I really look forward to the day when rds feels confident about displaying his work here again.

OUF! PLOUF! GROUF! Thanks to you:-). I'm unhappy about the CB issue. Our Administrators are working hard and they do every thing they can. Don't forget that "bad" people are every where in life, hu!!! If you only could try to ignore them:-). Speaking about them gives importance to their behavement and they will feel great (that's what they need to survive and to irritate you) I tell you: You do NOT need to be listed in the MOST RANKED, MOST VISITED, MOST whatever and of course not in the HOT 20. I would even pretend the contrary! Here at Renderosity we have international (intermundial) visitors who selects images to publish, to print.... They know that "most ranked" images are ranked 99% by complaisance (because you have friends or/and clones). They know that most voted images are also 99% by complaisance (because you have friends or/and clones). If ever you want to be known, just do your work, do it as best as you can, be original, polyvalent, don't care about what others think about it. Just publish:-). And if your work is great, you will get every thing you want and will be solicit from many parts. Renderosity is the best platform to make your art recognized in the world, if ou are flexible, if you don't imitate other's ideas but create your own, very personal style (don't do all the time the same thing, we live in a moving world). :-)Guitta

Well My 2 cents. Don't let it get to you. Art is art and it speaks for itself. No comment nessessary. Votes are a opinion. Somebody speaking for your art. What do they know? Seach the galleries anyway you want but the best art always shows up under most viewed. See it speaks for itself just fine.

I can't agree more with Wabe. An excellent idea, visible ranking that is. Getting a comment or good ranking from a great artist makes the day. Lots of time I've had situations like I post a comment on someone's picture, next thing I see he/she looked into my gallery and commented on 'one' of my 2/3 months old picture. It's like returning the favor! what a joke! Also taking point from David, keeping the newbies in few months probation is not a bad idea. The 'pests' such as Shoop mentioned doesn't hang around that long to "cranck" something up. But, doesn't matter how much we talk about it, it's the mods and admins has to do the process (if they want to). May be Walther can pull some strings here and there. :-) Come on Walther, I know you can. :-)

th! th! th! NOOO!!! do nothing Walther, you do not need to DIMINISH YOURSELF. You would not. Would you? nish: "it's the mods and admins has to do the process (if they want to)." Sometimes it is really bad. Go to any internet cafe, write or upload whatever you want and then ask to the administrators of Renderosity to find out who was THE PERSON:-(. Please nish, realize how difficult this job is.

Hmmm Nish. I wouldn't consider it a "joke" to comment on an image you found, by visiting the artist who commented your image. Why the heck would you call that a joke? I found the images by "Shadowwind" this way, each of which deserves a comment. And Guitta. I TRULY really enjoy reading your posts : th! th! th! NOOO!!! do nothing Walther, you do not need to DIMINISH YOURSELF - OUF! PLOUF! GROUF! Hehe :) And Guitta... you are quite right. Hiding yourself on the web is far to easy. I really appreciate the work done by your and the rest of the staff! :) - Thomas

Ok this is the last attention I will be giving CB as Gebe is right and a few of you I agree with. Talking about it only gives attention to it. This poor little human needs help upstairs and honestly I have compassion for that. However, this pest has been bugging me for 3 years first in the Yahoo Clubs finally I helped along with others Yahoo to change the format so that it could no longer be a problem. But this fellow has taken my work my personal picture of me and my sons and posted on other forums with not so nice comments. Imagine the worse and you make be close to what he has done to me personally. Sure have compassion but when someone like this follows me into Renderosity I feel somewhat responsible and by pulling my work it takes away his ammunition to attack me further. Wabe mentioned he could not understand why one person would do this. IMHO since 3 years now it is jealousy that turned into rage and persistent attacks. This is not just a one time thing for me folks this sicko has been on me for years and quite frankly I have had it. If there was a law that I could use prosecute this sick person and get him into an institution where he can get the help he needs I would be on the first plane down to California as that is where he lives and file charges personally. Yes this can be minor problem for many sites. However and I want to stress this once again this person is sick and needs help. After they got him weeded out of yahoo his ids where over 100 using ip masks other computers and so on. So this is no little problem I hope it never happens to any of you. Because it is not fun at all constantly trying to hack into my PC, Posting my picture on gay and bestiality forums kind of makes me a bit angry, ya know? Ok I'm done. I hope you all will understand. Thank you, `shoop

first of i think djeser should be applauded for opening this can of worms as it seems to me that everybody has strong views on it and wants to voice their opinions i reckon its the easy option to be dismissive about this and a formula should be worked out to prevent it rendero has become a nice part of my life and i wouldnt like to quit here just because some dimwit messes with the rankings and gives me hell by instant messaging me and making me uncomfortable but i would no problem...the reason being is i came here to share my art with fellow artists and to make friends ..who cares if we rank each others work accordingly..as someone pointed out the real art soon gets noticed by the masses and a position of respect to that artist is maintained.. what would happen if all the great artists got the hump and moved on because of these dimwits..we'd be in a mess then wouldnt we..i reckon a lot of good points have been made in this discussion wabes for one and flycatchers for another and as for rick shoop yes i'm sorry he's gone i liked his art and will miss him..i have no solutions to the problems the mods here at rendero must face in times like these but at least you know how i feel as an artist...i just hope things get back to normal pretty damn quick...(davy)

Djeser, like Davy, i think it was good you opened this thread. For me, joining Renderosity changed quite a bit in my creative life. I have seen so much beautiful work and talented people, and i feel very close to some of them, even if i never saw them or talked to them in person. I also felt until recently, that this is one of the nicest places i've seen on the net, with wonderful, supportive people. I still think so, altough i now realise how easily one can abuse this place to play his twisted games of jealousy and need for attention. I agree with Guitta that ignoring those persons is the best way of dealing with them. And RDS, please come back! :) There is another subject that was raised here, that of Renderosity's vulnerable ranking system. I totaly agree with Pmermino and YL. It is true that if you do good art work you will be noticed anyway, but we cannot ignore the fact that many visitors to Renderosity look at the "Best ranking" as a way of sorting out good works. Those visitors will probably miss the majority of the finest images ever posted here. So, until Renderosity changes the ranknig system, i will follow Patrick, YL and many others here and disable ranking for my images.

LOL ... ok guitta, wabe part was a joke; honestly. :-) Now, I do apologise for being inconsiderate. However, Guitta, I think you should consider Wabe's idea of visible ranking. I strongly think this will clear up lot of problems.

If there are trolls, please let us know so we can deal with them... Drop me a IM. Thanks Spike

I have posted once already, but it didn't show up. I will attempt to to again and hope that I have better luck. I want to thank Djeser for bringing this issue into the open. I haven't participated in any forum discussions before because I feel that my work is unworthy of being included with such great artists that I have found at Renderosity. Shoop and Djeser have helped and inspired me tremendously and I feel it's a shame that these and others (including myself) are being attacked. I have removed the ranking from any of my posts. Would that I could remove the vote button as well. Renderosity's voting and ranking choices are only feeding the flames of these egomaniacal individuals. Contests should stay in the contest arena. We should be able to receive help with kind constructive criticism. To date, I have received only 2 votes. One from Davy (Thank You!) and one from Cursed Beauty. Obviously, I still have a lot to learn and I have stopped posting because this situation has convinced me that I am not worthy. Voting and ranking can hurt when it is abused. Just my two cents worth. Shari

Ok, once more ... Putting myself in Shoop's shoes, all I can say I'm deeply sorry for what he is going through. And trust me buddy we want you to be back ASAP. Shari, what are you talking about? not worthy? Most of the acclaimed artists here didn't get there in one day. They had been doing this for yrs, not for the last few months like you or me. (for instance, Thomas since 8, Wabe since 1981, Guitta 2 months after she was born :-), so on and so forth). Trust me, you won't find a better and THE MOST friendliest forum and gallery and moderator anywhere in the web. That's why everyone is concern to keep it this way. And just cuz you are learning doesn't mean you don't have the eye to find the errors! So, if you don't post comments how do you think I'll find my errors??? Yesterday Djeser told me, "Aren't we here to learn from each other?" Well now I'm asking you the same Question. Finally, again Guitta, apologies for being inconsiderate.

Nish you hit the nail on the head. BTW I have not left you still see me posting here right? I just pulled my gallery to eliminate any more ammunition to be use against me. I have some new work in the brew as I speak. The point has been made I think and I too love this place as I have said many times. I also feel somewhat responsible that this poor sick person followed me in here. It put all my friends at risk. Gebe Guitta is one cool lady and she knows how I feel about her. :O) In fact everyone in our community I consider almost like family. I would bend over backwards to help any of you. I am not the best at Vue nor am I the worst. But it was at least 2 years here before I posted a scene at all, and only the encouragement of this group that pushed me further and believe me I have a long way to go. Vue is one of the most in depth 3D programs I have discovered. I read the book then threw it down and started pushing the envelope further. Trying my best to bend the program to my will and dreams of scenes that come into my mind. When an artist has done a pure Vue image I take a long look. I do love some of the post work that is done but for me to conquer this program solely is my intent. To have a young sick person do the things he has done to me is shameful for him. But to be honest, sure it bugs me but I never quit I always endure the lessons life has given me. Some times you have to shake the bottle to make the insides settle smoothly. I have learned much here today in this discussion and it only adds to my feeling of brother and sisterhood to you all. I know, I know I said I would not bring it up again. But just like with my work you great people spur me forward and onward. Thank you. Yours, `shoop PS: I am sure CB or CB1 or NormaJean or any of the other ids he has is watching and I sure hope he realizes Richie or John or what ever you call your self in the real world, did not get away with anything this time. If you continue to try at least with these good folks this is what happens. So take notes.

Wow, I didn't realize so many other people were aware of the issues I brought up. First, I would like to thank each and every one of you most sincerely for contributing your ideas and feelings. I got a real warm fuzzy from that! Personally, as far as rankings and voting and Top 20 stuff is concerned, that's not at all a priority for me. I do love reading the comments people leave at my images, whether they're good or bad. One image I struggled with recently and posted in the Poser gallery got some extremely pointed criticism, but I didn't let me bother me because the critic was absolutely right. That's the way I learn from all of you. I could care less if I get in the Top 20 or have all Excellents or whatever; what matters to me is that you all help me improve all the time, and have given me so much encouragement. IRL, none of my friends understand what I do as a hobby; they wouldn't know a polygon or a boolean from a hole in the ground! So to come to a place like this and meet all of you and experience all the help and encouragement you've given me, answering questions, giving me tips, or just plain saying you liked something about one of my images, is just brilliant! Shoop, you know how upset I am about the situation with you, and to hear the type of things that person has done makes me so angry that I'm at a total loss for words. All I can say is that I'm firmly on your side. And I'm glad you posted here. 8o) I think no matter what system there is for commenting/ranking/voting/groups/etc, there will be some jerk like CursedBeauty/CursedBeauty1/NormaJean/and all the other clones/ who will try to take advantage. I guess what makes me angriest about that situation is that all the good folks here at Vue were so free to offer help, advice, and encouragement to him, and he just crapped on all of us. How pathetic and ungrateful, to say the least. And to hear the rest of the story from Shoop makes it sickening as well. Some folks haven't realized the entire situation and continue to give him kind comments (at least Sat, last time I was online); that really aggravates me because it's just lying. And or recent visitor, the troll abirdonawire, is another example of what happens frequently in the Poser gallery; a sad individual who has to put others down to make themselves feel better. So, I suppose I've run on a bit. Guitta, I had to laugh at your exclamations, sometimes you are such a breath of fresh air to us!! lol!! But I am glad I brought up the subject. I am feeling a lot better and a lot more positive now, or at least I would if it wasn't so terribly hot here. Had to leave my computers off at home after 10am due to the heat. Anyway, thank you all, my friends, you're the best group of folks around!

Well Djeser, very difficult to know under which coat someone is hiding. So it is sometimes simply not possible to ignore. But i think that is not the point (for me). I don't want to stigmatize anybody just by guessing he/she could be someone else. I think just a little more clarity who is doing what in ranking could help tremendously. I still haven't heard an answer why Renderosity has changed that in the past. Probably there was a good reason for it, i really would like to know. Another possibility would be to change the rankings into a more neutral system. Not to give categories like "great", "excellent" etc but simply have a range from 0 to 10. I agree with Guitta that it is an enormous amount of work for admins to filter out people we are talking about at the moment. Probably simply not possible completely. So more transparency could make things so much easier. Last, i think i haven't said it before. Thanks for opening this can of worms (as Davy said). Even when the reason is not a nice one, it showed how good friends we are here at this place.

Having just seen this thread it makes me feel sad to read what has happened to some of you. There is plenty of embarrasing stuff going on every day, so it's difficult to understand why some people may want to spoil the atmosphere of a place we all like to post and discuss the results of our favourite "obsession" (yes, I'm a Rocky Horror Picture Show fan). Many of the ideas mentioned above on how to tackle the issue seem pretty comprehensible to me (especially visible ranking), altough it's probably very difficult to deny site access to certain individuals. As mentioned previously it's far too easy to hide on the web. Let's hope the best anyway - Christoph

ok i will tell you what i think rds for the last time i swear to anything i love that i did not gave you any bad comments about your work you keep saying i did why??? thats my question i would love you to answer why do you keep blaming me for something i did not even say i am kind to everyone i enjoy everyones art...but you know i dont really have to keep up with this if you guys want me out ok i will leave just let me know but i want eveyone to agree if they want me to stay or leave thats all i have to say... Richie...

one more thing i dont know why you said i been bugging you for the last 3 years ive only been in renderosity for like 6 months so what is that all about????

Do you really think we are all that stupid? You might try one of your other ids as this one is useless here. Acting innocent under fire is and has always been your approach. You dont fool me perhaps you can fool some others but not for long. You need help and mean in a big way. This is not Yahoo and these people are not stupid. Not everyone can be your mark and as the net grows and becomes more educated to your type of fun, slowly your wells of attention getting you so direly need will all be dry. Take your meds and call your doctor but leave us alone. PS: Now the next move will be all your IDs will come out in support of poor you right? Shaking my head..

Richie - Have you really read all the above posts? How much clearer do we need to make our collective feelings before you get the message? Quite independently of the truth or otherwise of anything that has personally passed between you and RDS, the kind of activity you as CursedBeauty/PlasticHeart/BleedingHeart and all the rest got up to is not welcome here. I'm sorry to speak so bluntly; I take no pleasure in it. But I hate to see someone spoiling for everyone else what should be, and normally is, a pleasurable experience. I don't know why you felt the need to do it - it's not as though you don't have talent. I wish you had not acted as you did, but having been found out you should at least have the good grace to face the consequences and leave quietly.

you guys keep making things up i said i never said anything why do you guys make things harder for your selfs i never even been in yahoo and please dont disrespect me ok ibdont be calling anyone around here stupid i think your the one that needs help buddy i dont have any idea what are you talking about yahoo what do you do there but i had it with all this alkll you guys are against me why is that??????? you guys dont really get it in your head i DINDT SAY ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think this just about raps up this thread. See attention freaks need attention they won't go away. Negative attention or positive attention it doesn't matter as long as it is some form of recognition. http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=462943&Start=1&Sectionid=3&filter_genre_id=0&WhatsNew=Yes NormaJean well actualy to be honest this is cursedbeauty but they banned me from renderosity so i had to create this new screenname but its me hope they dont banned me again for no reason thanks for your comments Richie..

Richie, i don't care who said what, where, when, to whom, etc etc. I simply was shocked when i found a message heret this morning from "NormaJean" (real name: Fabio Hernandez) signed as Richie. This is not the way of honesty and kindness i like to see here. If you are banned from Renderosity by whatever reason (i am not interested in that), you can sort that out with the admins. I am sure that there are ways. BUT YOU CAN'T COME BACK UNDER ANOTHER IDENTITY. This starts to shake the foundation pillars of a place like this. I feel, that i start to mistrust every identity i don't know already because i don't know who hides behind it. One last question. Is "abirdonawire" as well one of your multi identities? If not, sorry abirdonawire.

Another protestation of innocence. sigh To create clones in order to post comments on one's one image and votes and excellent rankings is in violation of the Renderosity Terms of Service. "Member/User Conduct: Members and users are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that is constructive and respectful of others at all times. Additionally, we would hope that each member/user would do their best to facilitate a culture of collaboration and positive reinforcement, so that we can all share our passion for art while realizing our personal ambitions, and developing friendships." Constructive and respectful are key words here. That means you don't take advantage of the system to stroke your own ego at the expense of other members of the Vue community here. "Conduct - Zero Tolerance Renderosity maintains a Zero Tolerance on certain behaviors within the community. These include, but are not limited to the following. Soliciting or Trading of any products illegally. This includes, but is not limited to, requests and/or distribution of computer software, software security overrides, serial numbers and/or admission of use or possession (warez). Intentional practices that affect the normal operations of the community (Admins will take whatever steps are necessary to restore service)." I think the admins and moderators here give a lot of thought and research to each situation. But the TOS spell things out pretty clearly and unambiguously. From the main forum, I understand that when a member is warned and banned, the reasons are explained clearly. So I think the protestations of innocence are more than a little disingenuous. Just like irl, there are rules of behavior here; when we join, we all agree to abide by them. Plain and simple.

Yeah!

ok you guys win its ok i will leave end of discusion. well see you guys around....

This thread is locked now. Please send an IM to Spike if you have other grievances. I think we all prefer to discuss Vue techniques in this forum. Thanks for understanding. :-)Guitta