I had a discussion the other night with a friend of mine, he said that Poser's slowy dying, due to the Poser 5 fiasco and because of 3D is getting easier. 3D is sometimes still complex but in the future it will be very easy he said. Many people lost interest cuz of it's too hard to model. But when 3D is getting easier and everybody is able to produce a movie or whatsoever........will Poser survive this? I'd like to hear your opinion 'bout it R-Deals

Poser fulfils a need in a certain area of the 3D world that I think will still need this kind of product in the future, regardless of if it's called Poser or something else. Modelling is getting simpler, yes. But modelling softwares are getting more and more advanced, so to really take advantage of all the features in a high end 3D application, there is still a quite significant learning curve involved. For the people not interested in doing that, Poser will still have its place. I don't think that will change in the immediate future. Rather the opposite: With more and more good products on the market, more people will turn to 3D work as a hobby and they want an easy-to-use product like Poser. Not everybody wants to spend their free time learning Maya just to produce a hobby render. I don't agree that "3D is getting easier and everybody is able to produce a movie". Making a good 3D animation is still tricky. It is getting easier as softwares evolve and makes it easier, but that goes for all applications. Both Poser and other softwares evolve in this area, so this does not make any of the products obsolete. Again, it makes more people able to turn to this as a hobby and makes Poser even more interesting for this category of users. As for the "Poser 5 fiasco", it's up to Curious Labs to prove that this is behind them. I'm sure they can do it. Poser 5 is right now a reasonably stable product, and they are still working hard on it.

I agree with Kelderek. The learning curve and the price of the high end apps is very daunting to the hobbiest. It will be a long time before I can afford them. I sometimes feel sorry for the ones that jumped to P5 before learning P4. All the things that are simple for use, can be a nightmare for them. I think poser will have a place for quite awhile. I'm hopeing CL gets it together with P5, maybe sr4 will be enough. I don't have much trouble with P5, but there are still a few bugs. Still what other app can turn a layman into a somewhat artist as easy as Poser.

Based on how much I spent on Poser this weekend, I'd say the community's not only alive and well, but will be vacationing in the Bahamas next summer.

Modeling is getting easier? Huh? Before you can model, you have to be able to think in 3D... and most people here have so little imagination that they require MATs for 40 lipstick colors so they can just point and click on the ready-made visual rather than (gasp) load a texture or use the dropper to tint the base color. (To back up this assertion, you can't sell a product on any of the brokerages unless you make up MAT files for it.) Many years ago, I used DKB with no GUI to build spaceships. When you can turn 700 lines of code into a 3D creation, you have a starting point as a modeler. Most models now are much more complex than that (and a GUI is convenient to save render time). I was the only artist out of a dozen who could build a 3D model of any sort with that program. Thinking in 3D doesn't come easily... even if all you are doing is sticking a cylinder out there in space. Poser, Bryce, and Raydream made a wonderful suite of tools. They are simple enough for any artist or hobbyist to use and yet rich enough that a good artist can turn wonders on their heads. People learning Maya will often take a 12-18 months of classes to get the hang of it. With Poser and a week, you can be off making art. Not many programs can say that. There is still a need to programs which allow folks to be creative and aren't as daunting as the higher end apps. Besides, DAZ wouldn't be spending the effort to enter this niche if they didn't feel that there was a long and healthy financial future waiting for their products, too. Carolly

Ouch! Carolly, you do have a thing about MAT files don't you -:) I really don't understand the angst because a lot of folks prefer to load a texture set with one click rather than going through the material editor. AH well, we all have our pet peeves. Modelling has become more accessible in the same sense that computer programming has - nice GUIs and semi-understandable languages instead of cryptic machine code. That still doesn't mean that it's easy to do well or that everyone has the mindset or the inclination do it. I don't see modelling becoming "easy" for most people anytime soon. By the same token, I don't think making 3D movies is going to become a simple task in the near term. Even though Poser may be the easiest tool for doing it, you still don't see a whole lot of Poser animation being done. In short, Poser, or something similar is here to stay. At some point in the future perhaps someone will produce an application that makes animating figures as simple as typing in a script and having the "actors" follow it without messy dial twisting, but the masses will still have to wait until the price drops from $20,000 per seat and the hardware and 50 GHz systems become affordable.

There are two rules of human nature involved here as well. 1. People will always strive toward the best possible performance at any given time. When tools improve, the best use of those tools (the work of geniuses, so to speak) inevitably becomes technically better and more complicated. This pulls the rest of us forward, so that we end up spending at least as much effort than we did before. 2. Pushing a button is simply no fun, and rarely works as well as futurists imagine. Anybody who enjoys 3D will reject a one-touch program, because the fun is in the making, not in the result. In the realm of programming, a new "push one button" method comes along every few years, and managers eagerly investigate it, hoping to trash all those messy human employees. Their hopes are in vain, though, because some parts of programming are just intrinsically beyond automation. And that's even more true in the realm of art!

I agree with what most people here are saying. 3D isn't really getting any easier. 8-) Poser is a unique program and it helps you create quick character animation and art ... but on the other hand, the characters often are unmistakably Poser. You will still need to learn how to model and rig and animate if you want to achieve results that are unique and marketable in the "really big leagues." And I disagree that 3D is getting easier. The features of 3D programs have changed over the last 12 years, and have become more complex and advanced. While 3D programs can do much more than they did 12 years ago, the learning curve is also much more extensive. There are no "create a babe" or "create a hunk" buttons when it comes to making original 3D humans. Animation is another story in itself. Yes, you can get plugins that control the skin and the motion and the morphing ... but you still need to manually tweak the results to make it believable. And that is a very tedious and time consuming process. Heh ... and that's why modelers and animators are very much in demand. It's not all done automatically. 8-)

Ockham, I agree that you can't code imagination or feeling. You can eliminate a lot of the scut work though. I remember the first text editor I used required an extra formatting program. You had to manually enter codes to start and stop boldface, italics etc. If you're "directing" a movie, I think you should be able to concentrate on the big picture, rather than posing the actors like mannequins. If they're intelligent enough to understand "walk over to the chair and sit down," you have more time to do any minor tweaking your cinematic vision demands. There'll still plenty of room for imagination and art :-)

A program like Poser will always have its place. If I wanted to produce a film with different 3D actors that mimics reality similar to Final Fantasy or Animatrix and I am a one man shop, perhaps in eight or more years I might be able to finish with the modeling, morph creation, clothing, hair, 3D landscape, facial and character animation and all the tasks involved to create a very short film. Poser allows you to be the director seat back and hire/buy the 3D actors, 3D clothes, 3D landscape and all that you might need, assemble it and deliver your product in a fraction of the time it would take you to make everything from scratch. I see Poser/DAZ Studio as a wonderful tool for a person that wants to tell stories be it in film, illustrated storyboards or comic book format.

I probably should add one thing ... >> As for the "Poser 5 fiasco", it's up to Curious Labs to prove that this is behind them. I hope they do, because I am a fan of Poser and have been since version 1. But, I do have to admit, that I miss a LOT of the CL people that have since gone on to other things. IMHO, they were the heart and soul of Poser, and some of the magic went with them. 8-(

Is poser dying? I don't think so, provided people continue to buy content, and continue to render I think poser has a life. I actually don't think it matters one way or another whether CL survive or not, the community has lived through buy outs, splits, public beta tests, etc. and it's still here. People still hang thier work up for others to view and criticise, and for that P4 will do fine. Sure you can get better render engines, but for simple posing, poser is where it's at :) Yes, poser is archaic, and will doubtless work a lot better in a year or more, when brute processor grunt makes it faster, but for generating still images render times really don't come into it, it's not like we're creating animation, or use Bryce... Poser has a long life ahead of if, in spite, (or perhaps in defiance :) of any of the screw-up's perpetrated in it's name. later jb

There are more and more sites that offer more stuff for Poser each day. Two years ago, there a greater reliance on free stuff ... now, the weight has shifted to sales. That would not happen if the market wasn't there. The stuff that is for sale is all interconnected both across the market and across the entire planet. Japanese artists make a model, and right away, a Russian, a Greek, and a Yank north of the Mason Dixon line will have a text file or doodad for the model.

I do not think Poser is dieing at all.. in fact I think it is on the brink of rebirth if any thing..as folks have mentioned Poser 5 is coming along well now, Daz Studio should be out sometime this year.. that will set up a nice balance of competition I think, and force the software developers in to even more new and innovative goodies and add ons.. nothing is better for a market than good old fashioned competition g.. it tends to bring out the best in bright minds:-). As far as the market place right now I think we will see a bit of culling.. a natural thing for a market place.. new folks come along and try their hand at modeling and texturing.. app creation and so on .. again competition is a wonderful motivator some will be able to compete , want to compete .. others will drop off. The need for content I do not think will ever change, yes folks can create a lot of what they need themselves but will not necessarily do that because of time constraints or different areas of interest. I for one am more than optimistic for the future of poser and Poser like apps!

I agree with Little Dragon. If it's dieing, you couldn't prove it by my credit card companies :) Not being a modeler, but a lowly "button pusher" who just does this for a hobby, I suspect a "Poser type" program will exist for a long time to come. DAZ is getting into the mix to ensure that, I would guess. And Carolly: ".....Many years ago, I used DKB with no GUI to build spaceships. When you can turn 700 lines of code into a 3D creation, you have a starting point as a modeler......" Whoa!! You're really Trinity, aren't you!! :)

P5 is probably going to have something of a regenesis when Mover 5 for Vue4 (d'Esprit and Pro) comes out, as it is supposed to have =full= support of the features, including the dynamics. Having at least one program you can fully export Poser 5 work into will really spark some interest in some quarters...

naaa its the battery in the dildo she sits on that makes her that way. ----------------Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz--------------- transmission ended

modeling easy? the only thing i can model is play doh :) taste good too...

I believe that Poser like programs will become as standard as CAD or Office programs.

My accountant 'hates' Poser... Need I say more ;) Helen

depends on how poser will develope... I think in one or two years there will be poser-like software with working dynamic hair and truly "conforming" clothing... add plugins to export to common games (like Quake or Sims 2) and you have a winner... Poser with its lack of support from CL will be dead meat as soon as any new picks up the challenge...

Let's put it this way until poser 4 came along the 3d community was much smaller, I would say poser is responsible for the major growth of the 3d medium and the 3d commnuity. Who is this guy? Poser dieing? ROTFL HA! GET REAL HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

What I find interesting is that Poser Figures, like V3 and such, are getting used a lot outside of Poser. People are actually taking the Poser figures and re-rigging them in other apps. Maybe the Poser program itself is getting slightly less use, but the models market is thriving.