hey Riddokun, you're a genius!! the maya doll eyes DO look better in the characters than the Universal eyes... I replaced all my mat files, and now all of them feature the more natural look of the maya eyes. This here Stephanie is a nice example... I'm not sure about her face... he looks too much like Stephanie, and I wanted to have a different look... she looks a lot like the bass player of Luscious jackson, anyway, so maybe that's not that bad...

and this is the other character that I posted previously, but with the Maya doa eyes... doesn't look that much different, but the eyes look WAY better...

and here's the final one... greeting to insom_nia, who seemed to like this particular character better.

Attached Link: http://www.keane-eyes.com/

"LOOK" Pretty COOL!!! There was a lady artist named Margaret Keane a couple of decades back who made TONS of $$$ painting characters with BIG EYES. Her art still sells very well. Here's a link to her gallery.

See other KEANE animals on the same link above. Are BIG EYED ANIMALS COOL or What? (Think another major art and character trend has been started her at Renderosity!!!)

that was really interesting link, thanks.

Kayarnad- I read your earlier posts about these eyes. You said the V3 insertion was easy because you used the Alien Morph Eyes-? Did you use the V2 Alien Morph eyes also? My interest now is to "Margaret Keane" some of the PS and PT girls. I think that would be a really hot idea. Since V2 and the MilGirls are basically the same (share the same morphs) I would be interested in any ideas you might have about making THAT work (MilGirls).

hmm are you talking about using the eyes on a millenium teen ? if so, i can tell you so far it works without making anything... Saw some people of faerywylde using them on their faeries. i think millenium teens (boys and girls) use the same material names, so even the MAT file poses included in my package should work. I tested them on preschool/preteen boy and girl and it worked. BEWARE: the V2 version (and p4) canot use iris shape/size morphs as well as any eye morphs, because i did not have any standard morphs for this and to achieve the desired size/effect of anime look, i had to enlarge iris size and it carries out on the next material (eyeball/eyewhite). v3 is morphable, and mayadoll's have a close enoguh size to what i needed so i make them matching mat size.

kayarnad: the reason why mayadoll's versions of eyes look better is that, as i told you, whenever i manage to improve some of my eyes flaws, and add more effects, I usually now favor mayadoll first. the two reasons were: free character, asiate/anime looking (my kind of stuff), and wish to suppoort her secodn reason: she has separate textures for eyes, so i do not need to get around with some huge white filled 2000x2000 jpg files to have a slight amount of detail that wont be wasted in a close up (as eyes are only useful in closeup) such as in p4, v2, steph and so. V3 too had a separate texture mat/file for eyes. the other reason i will stick now to mayadoll mostly (and maybe black hearted eyes) is because except from the concave morph used by blackhearted, mayax had the same idea abotu the "second" sphere of the eye prop, this mean you have a transparent sphere sligthly bigger than the eyeball itself, covering t up. Such material (outer eyes on the charater) can be mapped with a reflection map, or highlights so i do not need to fake reflects anymore. anyway i will still support other characters as second step as they are more popular and older... (but this requires to make some 36 mat files and preview thumbnails for EACH character.. so next universal version will have 3 or 4 time files :(

Riddokun - are you saying that using the MayaDoll version is BETTER even for V2-V3 and the MilGirls? I haven't yet actually played with the eyes yet, but have downloaded all the versions. So- MayaDoll version is the BEST version for ALL of them? How about this idea- Maybe MayaStudio's should come out with a Maya-PTGirl!= That is, a Pre-Teen girl. That would be a hit, I think.

i did not mean that, i mean that everytime i make new versions of them with new idea, better details or things, I first put them into a mayadoll version to start with, and then i adapt the new look/style and version to the other characters after that. nothing personnal, you have to start somewhere, i think. so technically, the latest vrsion (mayadoll 2.1) are the latest i made, so they represent the current look and level i reached for them until i manage to improve them (without breaking the balance i want to keep.. reason i trashed the 2.0 for example) reasons i favor mayadoll are explained above (plus the older popular characters have far many stuff enough for them and are less in need) so technically, if you never tested, yes (imho) the mayadoll 2.1 represent what i made best so far, but i saw people who still stick themselves to older mayadoll version for example. It is a matter of test. I recommend you to try out the universal/v3 version first to see if the overall look and concept pleases you and suits your needs, then try out a mayadoll with the latest one to compare. (i may post a history picture maybe :)

heh, a Maya PT? it could work... hey, riddokun, what in the world is the blackhearted eyes??? I have no idea about them... is blackheart a character or something? oh, here's a character with the grey eyes... grey is a great tone, IMHO.

oh, Veritas, I think I didn't explain things too clearly... it's easy to fit the V3 doaeyes because of the morphs that V3 has... you can use the Big Eye morph and the eyes fit perfectly... but I don't use the alien eyes on V3, ti's not really necessary... but the alien eyes had helped me a LOT on all my mike 2 characters... thanks to the alien eyes I can make the guys' eyes bigger, otherwise I don't know how I could do it... and I haven't used V2 yet for my characters... I mostly use V3 to V2, but for sure if I use V2, I'll have to resource to the alien eyes in the same way i use them for the guys. Oh, here's my first and LAST mike 3 characters... I mainly did it to show riddokun that his V3 eyes fit M3 perfectly... but M3 is definately NOT what i want in my characters.. as much as I tried to make him thing and stuff, it was just too much complication... and it ended up looking like M3 anyway... what i like about the bishonen pack is that it turns all the M2 into completely new characters... you can barely see the traces of M2 in them... but in this M3 characters, it's so easy to tell that he's M3. and yeah, you can put the DOA yes on the Mil Girls with the Universal doaeyes.. you the the MIlgirls are basically small victorias, so you can use victoria skins and eyes on them... Riddokun, did you use the universal eyes on the MIlBoys?? i would have though they shoud take the michael mats... but if they use the victoria mats, much better. Max

here is an history if you never tried them

yes as i told the v2/universal version MAT files for victoria also work for preteen/preschool both boys and girls. for the "correct" settings for v3 i think i had put them into the readme (not sure) but i had paper notes anyway i can find them again. well basic M3 (without byuing additionnal stuff) was rumored to bee too slightly build/feminine looking, but in fact, m3 is perfect for grown up young men (high chool/university) as well as for portraying typical asiate counterpart of mayadoll :) (yes, most of the asian male youths do not look like megamassive mike2...) what pains me is that as there are no eye morph standards, i cannot try to make thingsd such as dilated/conracted pupil effects (unless i double or triple the number of texture), because i think even the pupil is bigger than regular pupil materials. for m2 and v2 i was mistaklen, there are INDEED some "invisible" outer spheres for putting refmaps or highlight, these are the eyeballs materials (opposed to eyewhites) but i did ot knew it at first (so in next version i'll modify the MAt files accordingly) anyway i am glad of the interrest a couple of person here put into my eyes, and i know it had been long since i did not woerk on them, and kayarnad made me realised i could bring them to stephanie and to male characters. But so far i am very busy with current projects, yet i try to think about making new ones quick. blackhearted eyes are smartprops for the daz/millenium figures, they are less than 10$ and are awesome photorealistic eyes (check market place) but also they are cleverly made in the 3d concept (the concave morph was simple and genius) and i am trying to make doaeyes version for those, as it is a smart prop , it can suit most characters (had trouble with mayadoll though), is easy to map and morph. I may send a sample

Thanks very much Riddokun for your EXCELLENT eye research and development! And to Kayarnad for your further tests and development! This whole EYE thing has really opened my EYES about more interesting looking characters. EYES really are a major important feature in a character! You can really see how many previous Vicky renders here at Renderosity have such DEAD eyes in their heads. There is no LIFE coming out of the eyes. This is why too I think the whole ANIME look revolves around the EYES and not ETHNICITY. Many Japanese Anime artists use BLUE eyes in their characters (or other colors like green, etc. This is because they also want to say that ANIME is not JAPANESE, it is a CHARACTER STYLE for representing HUMAN CHARACTERS. Its why Anime is so popular, I think. Artist Margaret Keane also understood this 50 years ago- that especially on CHILDREN and ANIMALS, very large eyes on her characters had a HUGE IMPACT on art buyers. In fact for many in the art business, whenever someone else makes big eyes on a character other people will say "Those are KEANE EYES". But since ANIME has become so popular today, people now say "those are ANIME eyes". But no matter what you call it, the EYES are the focal point for an interesting character and the eyes should have LIFE IN THEM. NOW we can say "Those are Riddokun eyes"!

""LOOK" Pretty COOL!!! There was a lady artist named Margaret Keane a couple of decades back who made TONS of $$$ painting characters with BIG EYES. Her art still sells very well." Actually, you don't have to go into history at all to see "big eye" items that have a huge success at sales. For us in the US (no pun intended), walk into any Hallmark store and look at the Precious Moments series that has been selling for YEARS!

in fact a part of anime's style relating to eyes are about the highlits they made in (reflects etc), you can see them change, they are very big, and sometime it even glitters (when there is sorrow, love or something in the character eyes...), in fact they are very simple on the matter of color and detail but usualyl even on paper stories (mangas) or anime series, they still have life :)

Precious Moments example.

In Japan too, obviously, Big-Eye characters are huge sellers, especially animals. That's why my other eye experiment is going to be on some Poser animals like the MilCat and Lion. I think a Siamese MilCat with huge eyes would look pretty cool. I bring up Margaret Keane because she was perhaps the most SUCCESSFUL "Big-Eye" artist to come along. Decades ago she was even featured on the cover of TIME magazine (then a really big deal) and she made millions selling her paintings. This was a pretty big accomplishment in the art world. A lot of artists over the years have copied her style and her own original work has been somewhat forgotten. Also, I think the "Precious Moments" stuff is actually an idea copied from the German porceline doll characters made many decades ago. They are still around, but the "originals" are fairly expensive. Unfortunately I can't think of their name right now---

Hummels (sp?), I think. Yep, you're probably right.

hmm, I tried to work saomething with the DOA eyes on animals, but Poser 4 animals (which are actually poser 3 animals) suck!! their eyes, iris, pupil and everything, are squares!!! you can't really fit any eyes onto them... I still don't have any millenium animals... they have a lion too?? if I get to have daz3d's animals ever, I'll test them as well. maybe this thread came to an end?? thanks for all your comments! Max

ok, here's the last image for this thread... it's mostly to close my DOAeyes thesis, with the best improved eyes of all: the doaeyes on Mayadoll... and as much as I like maya doll, I have to say that i really doubt I'll be using her to make any characters until Mr. Maya releases an improved head morph package... what you see in the picture is as much as I could tweak mayadoll without making her look like a freak... and that was almost nothing, you can still pretty much tell it's the same mayadoll face as usual... I tried to use the current headmorph package, but it was useless... great product, but still it need a LOT of support. max

please keep in mind she is a "young" character in the 3d poitn of view.. she was released in late may, and yes she needs morphs, textures, clothes, everything one an get, and though there is a small communauty of active supporters (means people who makes things for her), there are more users but she needs improvement she still have flaws to be corrected (buttocks, etc), and only a few people who are not already busy with v2/v3 and all the fluss abotu them can make things for her: buyt lyrra made a mayadude out of morphs, djhan a animeboy with magnetrs, crescent made magnets too, i made everything i could, t limited and z3d made clothes... maya gladely provide metasequoia base head file for people who want to work on, and have a unrestrictive licence/redistribution copyright on the .cr2 and geometry to encourage people. now see v2, she is supported by daz but in her beginning monthes there were not many things. given the fact mayadoll is free, not supported by a huge comercial company, and most people trying to improve her as freebie on their spare time, i think it would be wiser not to dump her because she is flawed NOW, and just try to work/support those who work to improve her ! else EVERY other attempt of a new free character will be doomed to fail, and we will be dominated by DAZ products and their selling method that had quite a few flames about it ! (remember michael 3 in "many pieces" to buy)

hmm, you're right... I'm just thinking about my comic... i need unique characters, and I don't want eople reading my comic and saying "oh, thats V3! that's V2! that's M3!, that's MD!"... and with mayadoll, I guess everyone will guess it's a model based on her instantly... but I guess that's ok... Mayadoll is the prettiest figure aesthetically speaking, so of course I'll support her as much as I can. Max

well you know some clever morphs/character based on an initial known geometries are unique on themselves... lok at Tenten, the main character from Yamato.. No matter she is put on a v2 or a v3 or a judy, it is Tenten before being what she is based on. even see the thread of modified judy by yamato (no news from this thread). With a bit of modelling or with clever magnets, you can still achieve very unique characters (look at Ken1's lowres vicky based models... impressive, or hackworthless galleries and works, here or on rotica) I guess that v2, v3, etc, is just but another raw material or tool, a raw gem. but depending on the craftman/gemcutter, it can become pretty unique. for exempel now i only use Gigi (a md based character/morph by Tlimited) instead of basic md, tlimited also made Joey (for v3) that has quite personnality. And look for some website artists who have their unrelased personna modified models (taruru of chobits labs, Bat from batlab). I think that not only the base character or even any morph/modification, it is the overall (suit, mood, any text background and feelngs) that MAKES a character. See one of my earliest attempt (poor in fact) at the beginning of Mayadoll (and i may get back to her) known as Bettany (gallery). I intended to really developp her as a unique character. well problem of mayadoll is that as she has really few clothes, and that, except for very talented and patient persons who can tweak v2 clothes on her, it is easy to recognize her due to her small wardrobe so far... look also at all faeries at thorneworks/faerywylde, all based on same thing...

hey, thanks for all that info.. i had seen GIgi, but I found her so similar looking to the regular MD, that i got uninterested in her, but I'll go an download her now to see how he tweaked the dials and how his morphs work. thnx Max