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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 21 6:06 am)
Subject: New character In free stuff.
"Lastly is your version of Poser valid? why is there a Metacreatiions tag in your listing? That was so many years ago???"
and
"Just a quiet lurker here. I think Phoenix is saying if Wishmaster is all new to Poser and the forums, how did he get a MEtacreations copy of Poser 4."
My poser 4 is from metacreations and was purchased a long time ago. I also set it aside for about a year before getting back into it. Anyone could have done the same thing and after finally using it, chose to get to know P4 before investing in a buggy P5.
AND Renderosity is not the center of the poser universe. It's entirely feasible to be "new to the forums" and still using P4.
Let's not create suspicions that don't necessarily exist.
...... Kendra
I believe from what he/she has said that thewishmater is a newbie trying to be creative in making their own pieces for Poser. If they were truely guilty of theft I think they would have promptly vanished when this started, as so many do, instead of almost grovelling for forgiveness from a community they want to be a part of. Just my 0.02p. Catlin
I'm inclined to give wishmaster the benefit of the doubt. We've had newbies, and people from various culture make similar mistakes. Since Wish pulled the file immediately, and as long as this isn't repeated we'll just keep an eye on him for a bit. Lyrra oh ..and my Poser4 is in a Metacreations folder, in case anyone cares.
What a thing to wake up to.. (again). I think its incredible! -no matter how "free stuff" an item is, the risk of posting copyrighted material is just/always IMHO a VERY sad mistake, and that the posters first important assignment is to find out EVERYTHING about the content he intend to post, before he do so! If you had done so, then you would have the adress on the person who gave you a green light to do it, well, maybe not the creator but at least a "person". Well, at least Im also watching this thread for now. :/ Z.
Unfortunately, I'm not as generous with benefits of doubt.
He knew to rename the targetGeoms in Morph Manager. If there was no intent to mislead, why did he take the time to rename the morphs? Is it really possible that anybody, newbie or otherwise, could somehow believe renaming of files and specific text within files somehow constitutes original work?
It took him all of seven minutes to recall that the texture came from a "Jap site," but hours later, he can't say which, "Jap site?"
It's heartwarming to see tolerance, but that's not what I'm seeing here. I'm seeing people invent explanations versus all reasonable logic.
Sorry this happened to you again, Zrincx.
My poser directory reads: C:3D Poser4Runtime...blah, blah in order to keep it close to the top of my root directory. Only Metacreation tag that shows up is when I open the program. Only posting this tidbit so I can uncheck the "Email me when someone replies" box...only way I can prevent getting more notices and since the file has been pulled I consider this a dead issue.
Come on, getting someones morphs and someone else's textures (from anywhere) and then packaging them as your own 'creation' is still unethical - even if they were freebies. Wishmaster was naive to the extreme if he thought that somehow he had made something he could pass on as his own. His mat file certainly implies he does own the Zrincz texture and he must have know that he had nabbed the morphs from somewhere coz he included the original dial names. Sure, he was quick to apologise and remove the offensive item but IT SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN POSTED! Theft of another artists work is always theft - even if you give it a new name! Did you really not know this, Wishmaster?
Well, if I take a bunch of someone else's P4 morphs and apply them to Posette (mesh not by me) and choose one of Tim Laubach's textures to put on top, and add some hair by Koz, the resulting persona IS new (never been seen before) and IS mine (wouldn't have happened without my making her). Of course, I don't put the result in freestuff or anywhere else ...
Either I'm reading a different thread, or some of y'all should be ashamed of yourselves. Here's the thread I was reading. 0:00 WISHMASTER: Hey, I'd like to share something I put together that I think is neat. 0:45 SOMEONE ELSE: I think this is Zrincx's texture. Is that right? 0:52 W: No, I got it from a Japanese freebie site. 0:55 SE: Do you have permission to redistribute. 0:58 W: The readme said it was copyright free. Did I mess up? 0:59 SE: That's definitely Zrincx texture 1:07 W: I'll take it down and try to find the Japanese site I got it from. 1:14 SE: Here's a comparison. 1:15 W: I'm so sorry. I've killed the download. I didn't mean to step on anyone's copyright. 1:24 W: I killed the download and I deleted this off my HD. I'm so sorry. I messed up. 1:48 W: I'm really really sorry. I didn't mean to hurt anyone. I'll send you that Japanese site as soon as I can find it. 1:52 W: I learned my lesson. I know better now. 1:55 W: I learned my lesson. I thought it was OK. I'm sorry. 2:29 W: Thanks for warning me. I'm really embarassed. I'm sorry. 3:09 W: I'll make absolutely sure I make everything myself by hand next time. I can't say I'm sorry enough. For those of you who can't do math, he took the download down 22 MINUTES after it was first pointed out that it MIGHT not have been kosher, and 8 MINUTES after it reasonably confirmed. Man, if only the Renderosity store had that kind of turn around. He then apologized 7 TIMES. And what response is he getting? A "Hey, we all make mistakes. You know better now. Just don't do it again." A "Thanks for acting so quick to make things right"? No, of course not. He's getting this McCarthyistic BS of questioning everything he might have ever done. Hey, maybe we should take a pound of flesh while we're at it. I'm so sorry perfect demigods of Poserdom have to put up with those pesky flawed humans running around. Sometimes I am ashamed to be a part of this "community", such as it is.
Don't apply that to me. Look at my post 30 above, I did exactly what you ask, said "...believe me, I am well aware that one can make mistakes". I certainly have no reason to be ashamed. Please retract your criticism in my case. "perfect demigods of Poserdom" you say. Sarcastic and very pleasant. Did I ever, anywhere in this thread come on this way? Did I act meanly? No. I don't like coming in the line of fire when I really think I've behaved decently. I have also talked to wishmaster privately - we're getting along fine, thank you. :] Fish
There hasn't been a good witchhunt in a few weeks. :) I agree with Migal: this person knew how to rename targetGeoms AND rework a MAT Pose AND that the source texture came from a "Japanese site" (among other things). So, this is either a case of "I'm a beginner and didn't know it was wrong" or it's a case of someone testing the waters for a possible Marketplace product ("If people don't catch this item, I'll put another one up for sale later. If you do catch it, it's a freebie, so no money changed hands.") Just to clear things up: everyone who installed Poser prior to the buy-up by Curious Labs (and who installed it to "C:program filesMetacreationsPoser" is hereby using an illegal copy. Turn yourself in now before we send software police to your house. And may god have mercy on your soul if you installed Poser 4 over your previous versions of Poser to "C:Program FilesGhost EffectsPoser". And there is a special level in hell reserved for those lowlife people who do not install software to the "recommended" path, like me. There are those of us who really don't want the company's name in the folder structure. (Frankly, I don't care know currently makes Poser... okay, that's not true... I need to know who to yell at when it crashes.) I installed Poser to "D:3DProgramsPoser". There, I said it. I didn't install to the "Curious Labs" folder. I must be using an illegal copy. Feel free to send the software police to my place and take me away.
Don't be so quick to judge. I seem to recall that Traveler pulled many of his early morphs because they were showing up in commercial products in the marketplace when it first started, and some of those products were created by members that have become "successful" in this "community" and others.
Many people have made the mistake of using others morphs and textures as a basis for freebies not understanding that it was improper to do so. This is a mistake that has even been done by some that have gone on to become "perfect demigods of Poserdom". What's even more disheartening is that some of these "demigods" only crawl out of the woodwork when there is a "witch to burn" and rarely to contribute anything of substance to this community.
thewishmaster made an error. It's not difficult to believe someone might use morphs from a character offered as a freebie on another site thinking it was ok to do so...especially if the included readme stated so...then rename those morphs to match the name of the character they are creating.
The "evidence" offers little to indicate a deliberate theft or not...and since it doesn't we should be willing to give thewishmaster the benefit of the doubt and believe his explanation...especially since he pulled the item as soon as proof that it "infringed" was offered.
I have to agree with FyreSpiryt, I too am sometimes ashamed to be a part of this "community".
I agree with illusions.
I wonder if we've now succeeded in driving off another one.
Someone that could have become a contributor to the community. But, due to a festering, hardened paranoia, we now seek to slap down anyone new that tries to do anything.
Some people are just waiting to be offended. So that they can yell "AHA!!! GOTCHA!!!!".
I understand that it is a crime to steal someone else's work. But, I fear that the Poser "community" has become so cannibalistic in its outlook, that we are hurting ourselves far more than we know.
Whine, whine, whine. Accuse, accuse, accuse. Please consider giving thewishmaster, and others like him, a break.
You don't always have to assume the worst in every situation.
Fishnose did a good job, and was helpful.
However, some of the others have been nothing but negative.
Im not trying to becom a poser merchant and testing the waters for a possible Marketplace product I just made this character from the stuff I had and when she was finised I liked her and I would only be happy to give somthing back to you all...Well now I have gone and deleted my hole poser pack from my hd Ill install it from new so I know that what I have is only things that I payed for no more tex and other stuff from free stuf from around the web the only way I can be sertent that Im not using stuff that is not okay to use ... If I ever post any thing to the free stuff again I will make it all my self ore ask before making it I am sorry that this have happend and I wish That I had known Zrincx`s name before using hes tex but I did not . Im guilty in using hes texture and Im guilty for posting it in the free stuf as a part of a free character pack and for that Im very muche sorry but having a old poser pack with a Metacreatiions tag do not make me guilty in using a illegal poser coppy for Im not. I can only say that Im sorry SORRY and this will never happen from me ever again I can under stand why folks get mad on me SORRY.
@ thewishmaster -- I, for one, believe you. Completely. But, I don't think that you are the one that should be apologizing here. You've already done that. I think that some others should apologize. Perhaps we can be a real "community". A community that supports - instead of eats - it's own.
thewishmaster, I believe you too. You've apologized, you've admitted your mistakes, and you have learned from what's happened. I think if Lyrra, who has a ton of experience in judging these kinds of things, feels as if we should give the benefit of the doubt in the matter, I'm inclined to take her lead. Live and learn, and there is no one on this forum that hasn't made a mistake of one kind or another at sometime in their lives (even if they won't admit it). I also think it's time we moved on. Take care, thewishmaster. And don't get too discouraged by this experience.
Ok, I am sick and tired of listening to excuses, one more idiotic than the other, so I am going to pull out the few items I have in my store here. Wasent earning a great deal on these items anyway, -wasent expecting that either, but since so many have a problem concerning what is yours and mine, here, that issue takes the last fun out if it all. Thanks to FishNose, my good faithful buddy, and thanks to the folks who purchased my stuff, + a few other really nice folks. Z.
<<>> Sorry that you feel that way. As the "wounded" party, you are entitled to your opinion. I hope that you don't take this personally, but I think that you are over-reacting. And, yes, FishNose did a good job. I'll still buy your excellent products, wherever you sell them. Great stuff.
I've never posted any freestuff thewishmaster, but certainly empathize with you. I use free stuff in some of my renders, but try very hard to credit either the person who made it available or the site where I got it. If I don't know, I will say so. Sometimes that helps me find out who did create it so I can give them proper credit. By posting this information, if the items were ripped off, at least the original creator may recognize it and be able to track down the culprit. When I first started using Bryce, Vue and Poser, I downloaded freebies like crazy. Fortunately, I've read enough of these threads to know not post anything as a freebie that is not 100% my own doing. I've seen this happen to others......some who I know would have never done it maliciously. It can happen. I don't think thewishmaster would have posted a notice in this forum if he was trying to rip someone off.
Zrincx Im sorry I can understand you are mad I was wondering if we can find a way I can make this up for you. I will gladly pay you But I dont have manny monny so if we can find a amount each month that you and I find is okay Ill do it let me know what you think and then see what we can findouth ???
I really empathize with both parties here. Zrincx is one of my fave artists so naturally my sympathies are with him as the injured party. But I also understand the enthusiasm and passion for 3d art, especially when one is starting out. So I don't want to judge wishmaster too harshly. I think he has more than attoned for his sins, and as far as any future misbehavior on his part, thats not likely as hes already aroused suspicion.
RE:Zrincx Im sorry I can understand you are mad I was wondering if we can find a way I can make this up for you. I will gladly pay you But I dont have manny monny so if we can find a amount each month that you and I find is okay Ill do it let me know what you think and then see what we can findouth ??? No way! -its not about money..I repeat, NOT about MONEY. -and Im not mad at you wishmaster, believe me. But I have just been through almost the same issue with a person "who didnt knew!" or "wasent aware"..etc. and you know what, its exactly the whole discussion about whats right and wrong vs. peoples oppinions that Im tired off. People can think what they want. And I hope I am allowed too? I am not feeling "stepped on", only a tiny bit, many others have been there before me, and with outcomes, a lot worse. So, if anyone arent offended, Ill just pack my bag and at least remove my tiny store here, and do some rendering instead of pretending I am a merchant. :/ Z.
Zrincx, of course you can think what you want. You have that right. And the right to express it. I think all of us have seen the hurt caused by theft of product....and most of us are in deep sympathy for the aggrivation and frustration that causes. I'm aware, and others no doubt are that it is about the principle and not the money. It would be nice if we could get it resolved. I think thewishmaster was just trying to come up with a way to show a sincere apology. It's up to you whether or not to accept it. I believe thewishmaster really is trying to mend fences. You have the choice whether or not to help mend the fence or burn it down. I'm off this thread. Take care all.
I think : Thewishmaster made a mistake and frankly if it comes down to it I WILL buy him a copy of the texture. (If dialyn doesn't first) Sometimes you got to give a little bit of lieniency. A long time ago a someone packaged up a lot of poses and put them up. He did not understand we don't allow that. Today he's THE biggest pose maker around, Highly respected and gives a lot back to this community. If he was blasted like this I do not think he would have stuck around. Now I do think it is piss-poor that Phoenix made a claim that anyone with the Metacreations path has a illegal copy of poser and hasn't come back to apologize for that. I also think that it's piss poor of some people in this thread to blast holes in wishmaster for something (Sorry guys) that was a mistake. I fully believe that texture can be found somewhere on the net if you look hard enough. We just need to let people know not to use those things and redistribute them. Someone did take the copyright off that texture.. but NO ONE HERE can prove it was thewishmaster. Frankly I accept all 8 of his apologies and will wait to see where he is a year from now. Who knows he could be another Pose Master, or better who gives fantastic things to this community. And maybe he will forgive those of you who are blasting him here. but .. maybe not.
Why is that anytime Anton asks a question he gets it fed to him with a pitchfork? Everybody else asked and they didn't get jumped on. Someone that doesnt know the proper use, has an illegal copy, it's not that great a leap to think that MAYBE the copy of poser is illegal. I was thinking exacly the same thing, then Anton ASKED, it got ANSWERED. Why bite? The discussion has been informative to let people know what can, cannot, and how to do things properly and a lot of talk about community. Dont' go jumpin on someone cause they asked too. Zrincx sorry this happened to ya, sucks. Glad that it got caught quickly and hope that you have sucess whith whatever you decide to do. I'm beginning to see why people stop posting, creating freebies and working in 'the community'. /rant off/
A couple of things:
-
After the textures were identified as Zrincx's, several people posted about removing the textures and reposting just the character as a freebie. That's why I pointed out that the morphs were also made from a commercial item, "Eva" by soccer_coach, so nothing about the character was kosher for distribution. (That and I had to take a moment to fully savor the irony of it, which still has me chuckling.) There were also a set of genital magnets in the character which I didn't examine closely (and probably wouldn't recognize if I did, since I don't own any of those packages) -- if those weren't made by Wishmaster, then there's a third person whose work was also included in this freebie, presumably without permission.
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The mat files for the "Jenny" character contained references to Zrincx's original textures, in a directory with Zrincx's name on it. The textures themselves don't seem to have been altered at all except to have Zrincx's copyright removed. The morphs from soccer_coach's character were all present in the "Jenny" character completely unaltered, except for an attempt to change the ones named "Eva" to "Jenny" -- not to remove the morphs, mind you, but to change the identifying name. Wishmaster doesn't claim that he also got the Eva character from the "Jap site", so he must have bought it from the Renderosity MP. Even with the copyright notices on the store pages and in the item readme, he thought it was okay to distribute a product that he'd purchased for free? I'm all for giving people second chances, and in fact have advocated pretty strongly for it in some cases, but to accept that both the texture and the morphs were innocent mistakes is straining credibility.
-
Wishmaster still hasn't posted the readme from the file he says he downloaded from this "Jap site". He must have the readme, because he quoted from it a few comments into this thread to say that it okayed "free distribution." So whose name is in this readme? What's the URL to the website where it was downloaded? After all, from what Wishmaster said it looks like someone out there is still offering Zrincx's textures as warez. If Wishmaster is sorry, the best way to show it would be to give Zrincx every bit of info he has on where the file came from so Zrincx can stop the ripoff. I'm also betting that the Japanese Poser community would like to know, since they do not appear to be at all tolerant of pirated items and, in fact, seem to pride themselves on their very considerable skills in making everything from scratch. This represents a slur on their reputation.
Apologies are wonderful, and Wishmaster's seem very sincere and whole-hearted; kudos to him for not just turning tail and running. But there are still some unanswered questions here.
Machineclaw: While I can understand asking if the version of poser is valid: "Lastly is your version of Poser valid? why is there a Metacreatiions tag in your listing? That was so many years ago???" Why then imply that by having a Metacreations tag in the listing is wrong? Hmmm? It may have been many years ago but some of us still have Metacreations in our tags does that make ours not valid? Does it make us look suspicious as well? Just because there is a metacreations tag doesn't mean that it looks suspicious or illegal in anyway shape or form and that is What I am trying to get across.
Last word, basic philosophy on "People who live in glass houses throwing rocks", and "Judgment by default due to community feelings": Let anyone in the community step forward and claim they have not at least once used or d/ld something they knew was an illegal copy. [...and don't forget, if you d/ld your favorite Beatles song from Napster, this counts against you as well.]
Because thewishmaster stated that he was 'new to this' which when I read it implyed that he was probably new to Poser. Anton then ASKED, and thewishmaster ANSWERED. Metacreations is old, and while lots bought it ages ago and have the tag line, a new person would not have that line. Seemed like a completely logical thing to ask. While wrong some people think having illegally downloaded programs that they have gotten are fine too. Often illegal poser programs have illegally gotten items with it, was not the case this time. Like I said, I thought it too, someone beat me to asking and it was a non issue once answered. usually A+B=C, not in this case, but had it not been asked, and answered that would not have been known. Post #29 is not harsh, rude, and I thought was written in a polite way of asking someone for information. Yet the following discussion had teeth with venom.
"Metacreations is old, and while lots bought it ages ago and have the tag line, a new person would not have that line. " WRONG! SOrry but that's wrong. Some people new to poser might have gotten their copy of ebay, or discount software store near them, or got it given to them by a friend, or many other senerio's. Just because they are New doesn't mean they would NOT have that line. And this is not directed at you so please do not take it that way but 90% of people automatically assume WAREZ when confronted by things like this when in all actuality it's not. And out of thoes 75% of people refuse to listen to a person when they claim their innocence. Even when confronted with documented proof. Just because it looks(to collective you) like warez doesn't make it warez.
I thought that was my point. coulda been, looked like it was headin' there, and wasn't. ASKED and ANSWERED done deal. how many times have there been posts asking for serial numbers? happens here all the time so to me anyway it didn't seem like an out of the ordinary thing to ask, I would have asked had Anton not asked, then I would be the jumped on for asking. I guess for me it's just better to sit idly by and not post. I often find myslef re-reading my post and a follow up post and wonder to myself "did they even read what I posted". done.
Someone that doesnt know the proper use, has an illegal copy, it's not that great a leap to think that MAYBE the copy of poser is illegal. It is that great a leap. If you found a hundred dollar bill on the street and put it in your wallet...should everyone assume you got your wallet by stealing it? how many times have there been posts asking for serial numbers? happens here all the time so to me anyway it didn't seem like an out of the ordinary thing to ask... thewishmaster didn't ask for a serial number. The assumption was that since his freebie offering was an infingement...he was a thief and his tools were probably stolen too. He pulled the item as soon as he learned it was stolen, he provided a reasonable explanation, and he apologized umpteen times...that's good enough for me. If he does it again that will be a different story and I'd be hard pressed to believe it was a mistake a second time...but unless he does it again, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If Zrincx or Rendersosity wants additional information from thewishmaster to help track down the source of the files...Zrincx and thewishmaster and Renderosity Staff can work that out between themselves privately, no need for it to be done publicly, and no need for anyone else to be involved...no need to bash thewishmaster...no need to get out the rubber hose and hot lights...no need to plant the stake, pile the kindling, and light the torches. The deal is done...case closed...everyone can move along now...there's nothing to see here... ;^p
Incidentally, I'd just like to point out that it is very easy to know that you got something from a Japanese site and not to know which one. Most of the Japanese Poser sites link to one another, and a westerner with no Japanese and no Japanese browser character support enabled can click through a maze of unintelligible sites, recognising only the download links (which are usually pictorial).
So, can anyone explain the partially renamed Eva to Jenny morphs? Did he download Eva from a Japanse site as well?
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Yes, stolen is stolen, regardless of whether the item in question is for sale, or given away free. Perhaps thewishmaster is new as a character creator. But not necessarily new to Poser. As an end-user and a customer, if I were to contemplate the jump to becoming a merchant.......I'd have to give the move a LOT of thought. A hobby is a pleasure. However, when business issues get thrown into the mix, things might not be much fun: your enjoyable hobby suddenly becomes a lot like work.
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