Hello... I'm a time traveller and it seems to me that I made a dreadfull mistake. I was intending to visit the year 2004, but instead it looks as if I landed in 1938! Is this Berlin?

Not where I'm standing. Thomas Poser Coordinator

lol 30 Days! ;)

Oh did you draw that? I find myself thirsty for 2-D work. :)

My God!!!! IT IS BERLIN!!!!

And, Melory and Caly... You are off topic; we'll be shut down... :)

There are certain 'off-topics' that don't get shut-down. Remember, inconsistency. A great example involves Dialyn and a discussion about old biddys. ;)

Let's see -- Berlin in 1938 -- Jews being beaten up in the streets by brown-shirt thugs....Jewish businesses being smashed and burned down.......anti-semitisim on the rise.......the early beginnings of what would later become the concentration and death camps......all this while wild orgies are going on in the cities' nightclubs.......Neville Chamberlain gives his "Peace in Our Time" speech in defense of the compromise Munich Agreement..........the most powerful secular ruler in the history of modern Europe became firmly entrenched......... Well, Jews ARE currently being beaten up by mobs on the streets of France. And anti-semitisim DOES seem to be making a comeback around the world. Are these events what you are referring to? Otherwise, you are trivializing some extremely tragic history.

Xenophonz, I wish this were a joke, but from where I stand the landscape looks disturbingly reminiscent of other places and other, darker, epochs. I'll ask you to draw your own conclusions. I'm too tired to explain the obvious. And thanks for the admonition --no hard feelings. :)

Well said Dialyn. We are all nice people. And this is a wonderful world. And we all love each other and are full of understanding and patience. And when someone knocks us in the head with a club, we say "thank you, come again sometime..." It's so nice that I can't stand it and come out here to stir some trouble --on my Time Machine. Well maybe I'd do better to retire into my favorite part of the 21st century, wishing you all the best.

Oh, I deleted my own post. Just before anyone asks. It's late. I'm tired. And it's not worth the argument. But this is a very small part of the world. It isn't Berlin. It isn't 1938. And whatever happens here won't be remembered in the history books. Sorry.

Sorry for initiating (once again) a pointless argument. May I point out though that back in Berlin, in '38 they had no idea that this was the Berlin of '38 as it turned out to be in our history books. And may I also remind you that back in '31 none believed that Hitler and his band would ever stand a chance to write history (especially in the way they did). It always starts in a small, almost innocent, way. sigh But you are right again, Dialyn. We are all tired and this is a worthless argument. Sweet dreams to all.

Not worthless. Just not productive. Not tonight. Really, I do wish you well. You don't have to believe it. But I do. I think your heart is in the right place. And, frankly, that's all that really matters to me.

"When they came for the communists, I was silent, because I was not a communist; When they came for the socialists, I was silent, because I was not a socialist; When they came for the trade unionists, I did not protest, because I was not a trade unionist; When they came for the Jews, I did not protest, because I was not a Jew; When they came for me, there was no one left to protest on my behalf." Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984) "

In Berlin in 1938 people were being assaulted and killed. Renderosity deleted an image. AFAIK they didn't assault or kill anyone. (you guys DIDN'T assault or kill anyone without telling anybody, did you?)

hehe. This is one of those "movie popcorn" nights in the forums. I like the image of the dead horse. heheh Don't ya love it when a post gains a life of it's own? Melory I hope you are not terribly freaked by all this. Discussion is always good to understand people and events. btw: I really liked your image. I am a big "photoreal" buff and you did really detailed work.

Thank you geoegress. This is exactly what it is all about! Good NIGHT to all.

dialyn is right. Its OK to blow off steam and vent frustrations, but we really don't need to escalate a touchy situation. The points have been made, and I believe that they may have been heard and may possibly have some effect. Let's give it a rest for a while. It isn't easy to run this place, and we all would be worse off if it were not available to us.

thanks Anton :) I posted it over at the Grade Point Average site :) And yes I'm freaked...

I like this one I got from LittleDragon's post awhile back. Think it was LittleDragon. I think this is an important issue that could stand discussion but some of yoose are just baiting each other.

whats a legume? isn't that a root...like an onion sort of?

hehe. he is/was a member known for his posts. Funny character usually.

a legume is a bean....or certain beans it IS late. as for the topic...I like geoegress post..just remember folks it could be you anyday on the barrel of the renderosity fireing squad. ohhh I wonder if I am going to get this on my member record too....doesnt that just sound so like school...that whole permanent record deal?

OMG, ROFLOL....Doc would be honored!!!

I love the meter, but it should be a circle because instead of being at the low-end Legume should be at the point where it comes back around on topic. Although his presentation of ideas and feelings is not always subtle and might at times seem radical...he is usually on target and tells it like it is. [Must I add: IMHO?]

I feel dirty reading the forums nowadays. I think I'll go watch some porn.

Melory was the one with the picture {very well done I might add that was taken down not once but twice..the second time it had censor bars and get this...it was removed because of the censor bars} it is not repeat NOT the TOS that is the problem it is that they do not enforce the TOS consistantly. there are pics rightnow in the gallery far faaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrr worse then the picture in question. there are pictures that have been and still are in the gallery that are far worse BUT they are female et female. THAT is why the hubb bubb. not the TOS... the fact they use the TOS like a weapon. they do not enforce it on every picture or everyone. THAT is the problem NOT the actual TOS. though the whole sexual situation deal could be made a bit clearer...but generally IT IS NOT THE ACTUAL TOS THAT IS THE PROBLEM. {note caps are for emphasis not yelling it is to late to yell}

In the previous thread that got locked. I gave links to 6 pictures in the gallery that were clearly a violation of the ToS based on the criteria posted by Thomas and another mod..sorry I have forgotten the name.

One of them was a man licking or maybe kissing (definately touching) a woman's chest. One was of two women one of whom very plainly had her hand touching the other woman's breast.

If the pic of Melory's that was removed is a ToS violation (which btw, I did not think it was but I only saw the censored version) then certainly at least those 2 of the 6 I posted should be taken down as violations.

The others were not as um..sexually charged, but certainly fell in the rather nebulous area of "implied sexual situations" if the picture that Melory did fell within that area as well.

Personally, I am not offended nor do I have a problem with any of the pictures. Frankly I find the pictures of Vicky's with gargantuan inhumanely large breasts much more offensive, but they don't violate anything but taste. I am, however, offended by the clear double standards and hypocrisy that is shown at this site.

If people stay quiet nothing will change. I'm fairly certain nothing will change anyway though because people can't understand that it's OK to bring up problems and not sweep them under the rug. I will give it a while longer and if it doesn't improve, I will simply delete my wishlist, delete my gallery and find a new poser home which respects it's members enough to enforce it's ToS uniformly.

If there is something I want to buy from a merchant here before I go I will IM them and find out if I can buy it at another store or from them privately. If not, they will lose the sale which is unfortunate because it's not their fault that R'osity is not listening to at least a portion of it's customers.

Towal

I'm really confused I guess. Why is it so hard for people to understand that the arguements are not about anything except the very uneven, hypocritial enforcement of the TOS?

None of the things you posted about are violations of the TOS as far as I can tell Dialyn. There are two seperate issues being discussed here and they seem to be getting confused.

One topic which appears to be what Dialyn is addressing is that people complain because they personally don't like something or find it offensive. I agree that there is not really much that can be done about that. People like what they like and don't like what they don't like and nothing anyone says is likely going to make them change their mind on topics like that.

The other issue, which is the one that people are at least attempting to show here is that the TOS is applied unevenly and arbitrarily.

IF an image violates the TOS it should be pulled from the gallery no matter the theme of the picture. Hetero, gay, animal, humanoid, alien...doesn't matter if it violates the TOS is should be pulled. That is NOT what is happening, however and that is what people are protesting.

I won't even go into the issue that there is a ton of stuff in the MP that would violate the TOS even it was used in an image here....well maybe just one example.

I did notice when I was doing searches yesterday (see my post in the locked thread) that one of the items in the MP actually has no preview image and it states the reason for having no image is that the item violates the TOS. WTF???????????? If the item violates the TOS such that a preview of it could not even be shown in the MP it would stand to reason that you couldn't use it in images here either. If that doesn't show that the TOS is enforced to benefit the earning of money I'm not sure what does.

If you look at my post on the other thread in only 3 pages not even looking at every picture, just picking thumbs that I suspected might yield what I was looking for I found 6 pictures that were clearly violations of the TOS based on comments made by Thomas (a moderator for this forum).

None of that was even addressed..the thread was simply locked and once again the points were glossed over as though they were never made. Even though the posts were, in fact, on topic for the thread it was closed because it was "off topic" for the thread (or at least that is the way it sounded..he didn't say off topic for the forum).

Towal

As I said elsewhere... It's not just the inconsistent TOS when it comes to images. Though the issues with trigger-happy folks when it comes to locking /moving threads seems to be related to that. I also haven't forgotton Lady Cherry. There's also the hypocrisy of them selling bondage stuff, genitals, and sex poses that can't be used here. Then there's the thing about refunds and copyright infringements. I asked for a refund on the GothicAngel stuff. I get an IM telling me it will be updated. I send another IM saying I don't want it, that I want a refund, and I still haven't heard back about the refund. There's also the sensation that they play favorites. Stormi's texture Charley was exclusive here. If GA hadn't spoken up, I wouldn't have known that it was a copyright infringement. These things once properly investigated and a solution found should be be told to consumers. Now I'm wondering how many other things I've bought have infringements that were swept under the rug.

Gosh I hate to even add fuel to this ever burning fire that's here anymore, but IMHO.. If Renderosity is and "art community" then there really should not be ANY discrimination at all. If they want a kid freindly website, then let them make a renderosity lite. I've always looked at renderosity as an Technical support/addon site for a 3d rendering program, Poser. I really don't think there are many kids that edit joiunt parameters, and create UVs, or write tutoriala about making doors and windows. I'm finding that I am looking towards other web based communities like 3d Commune, and Rendervisons, because they are not based on a "family" community, they are based on a "adult user" community. There should just be a setting so you can select what type of restictions on viewing the type of material that you prefer. And I could care less if they lock down useless argument threads. I say lock em down sooner! LOL!!

Towal, are you saying you would LIKE those six other pictures to be deleted? I know it may look like hypocrisy that some get through and others don't, but it may equally well be sloppy application of the TOS rather than malign application. With so many images, I can believe that some would slip through accidentally. As to whether coming down on Melory's picture was homophobia or not, the test is not whether the picture would have been allowed if it showed two women instead of two men, but if it would have been allowed if just the guy on the left had been a woman. I suspect not. Male equipment is more obvious than female, and it could be that that is the "problem", not homophobia.

o.O so a vagina and breast are ok to show blantantly and a penis is not? how does that work??? last night browsing the galleries{and I will also add that I most definatly do not have a problem with nudity or sexual situations hetero or otherwise} I saw way way way more violations of TOS with worse violations then malories picture. and not just freshly updated ones either I mean in the deeper pages of the gallery. I understand that the mods may not look at every pic geting in. but the thing is it is usually a member going "OMG look at thatOMG that is icky pooh!" and going to a mod...where they go and pull it or not pull it. at the time until the locked thread...there was another blatant masterbation picture {wonderfully done} that had been in the gallery for abit of time..it got a -warning- not pulled. and I amtalking OPENLY CLEARLY masterbation of two woman. no mistaking it because of shadows or anything else. malories picture tastefully done and no contact with gentials was pulled. not warned ...pulled. and they told her to refrain from making work like that. sorry but that is a double standard. if you are going to use the "implied sexuality" in the TOS like a weapon to take down any art that someone dislikes or makes a fuss over..then DO IT TO ALL OF THE ART. not just to some and not to others. THAT is the crux of the problem. the hypocracy of it all. also the mods and powers that be should use their own eyes and brains. we are a mixed community with mixed content. hold the viewers responsable as well. ~sighs~ the TOS is not a problem it is how it is used and abused that is.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=579589&Start=73&Sectionid=1&filter_genre_id=0&WhatsN

EW! Beans... I'm more of a corn person myself. LOL I think I forgot to take my meds today. Just been looking at all of the threads on the censorship thing going on the day before. People need to uh get a life me included. wal-mart has them on sale for 6.99 I bought 2 one for weekdays, another for weekends. Brad.

You can buy a bottle of vodka at the liquor store but can't drink it on store property. You can buy a condom at the grocery store but can't use it for its intended purpose in the aisles. You can buy a gun at the local sporting goods store but may not be able to shoot it there. You can buy a vibrator at Spencers' in the mall but you'd better not sit on a bench outside the store and use it. And you can buy a penis or fetishwear in the MP but their use is restricted in the Gallery. Since when is providing items for personal use in pivate location hypocrisy?

"Well, Jews ARE currently being beaten up by mobs on the streets of France." Are you crazy, joking or both ? Is that what you're told on Fox TV ? There is NO "beating of jews" in my country. There are critics from the European countries towards Mr Sharon's politics : this is not antisemitism. There has been an article saying that Europe was becoming antisemitic. This article was written by 2 persons (leading world and european jewish congress) strongly supporting Mr Sharon' politics. They both have agreed to make excuses to the European Comission, and to attend a conference on antisemitism scheduled in Europe for 2004 where the results of a study on this rise of antisemitism (and, more generally all the various racisms) will be presented. There are also growing tensions between the arabo-muslim and Jew communities in France, which some extreme right activits fan out with delectation. There has been some violent actions (tags on synagogues or mosques, and even 2 rabbis physically molested by a couple of thugs. There was also a synagogue burned, but the people who did it were psychiatric cases and even the Jewish representatives acknowledged that it was not an antisemitic act). My in-law family is jewish. If there were "mobs beating Jews" I'd be among the first to know. So can't you stop this French bashing once and for all ? Or, better still, shut up when you don't know what you're talking about ?

I haven't seen any signs of homophobia by the Mods. I think it's a question of some Mods being more conservative than others, the chances of something being missed with all the pictures uploaded every day, and what types of pictures are more likely to be brought up to the Mods' attention by site members. And, trust me, doing the gallery patrol is not easy! Unfortunately, we've had people post kiddie porn and such here, so it is very necessary. When I was a Mod, I had someone IM me about a picture with 2 men kissing while nude. She asked me if the picture broke the TOS due to genital contact. I IMed back saying that technically there was probably contact unless one or both men were eunichs, but it would be discriminatory to take the picture down as two woman or a man and a woman in the same picture would be fine. It's possible that another Mod would have removed the picture because it would be difficult for there to be no contact, so they would be going by the literal letter of the TOS. I could have been accused of lax enforcement or ignoring the TOS for saying the picture could stay, but I was trying to be fair and use common sense. Unfortunately, there's a few who will scream at you if you try to use common sense, then will turn around and scream if you go by the strictest definition of the TOS as well. As well, when you have more than one person doing anything, you will occasionally get inconsistant results. Rumors to the contrary, the Rendie Mods are not Borg. ;-) You can always appeal a decision to the site admins if you think a picture was unfairly removed. They do look at each case presented and will make a decision accordingly. They may decide the Mods were correct, or they may feel that the Mods were in error and may ask you to reupload the picture. The "implied sexual situations" was meant for pictures that break the spirit of the TOS. We had someone submit a picture of a troll doing a pig. When we took down the picture, the person argued that there was no sex in the picture because the troll mesh didn't have genitalia. (Yes, I'm serious.) We've also had pictures that looked like intercourse but the artist appealed the decision by showing the render from a different angle to show that technically the meshes were a few pixels too far apart to actually be having sex at that moment, but it was obvious from the original picture what was going on. I didn't see the original picture so I can't comment on how I would have voted. I hope this helps clear things up a bit, though, in general. Cheers!

Phantast: Nope. I don't care one way or the other whether the pictures are there or not. I used them to illustrate the point. Actually I think most of them were quite good.

I agree that there are a TON of pictures in the gallery and it would be nearly impossible to catch every picture that violates the TOS unless there is someone that does NOTHING but hit refresh on the gallery page and view every image.

That being said, for me there were 41 pages of 18 thumbs when I filtered the gallery for Poser/Romance (I picked romance because it was likely to yield the most pictures that violate the TOS IMO). I found on RANDOM inspection (ie: I was not clicking every thumb on those 3 pages) 6 pictures that appear to violate the TOS based on comments made by moderators on the thread that was locked.

That seems like a high number to me. I wonder how many there would be if I took the time to look at every picture on those 41 pages.

Two of the pictures were of something that was SPECIFICALLY mentioned by a moderator as being a TOS violation (another touching a second's body parts). Despite my mentioning that and providing a link no moderators, who we KNOW are watching these threads made any comment whatsoever. The thread was simply locked for being "Off Topic".

Whether Melory's picture was removed because it was 2 men or not it was removed and there are other pictures in the gallery that are far more sexually suggestive and do violate the TOS (ie: a woman having her hand clearly on another woman's breast and a man licking/kissing a woman's chest). It is a very uneven application.

However, when you add that to the fact that people say and link to rendererotica (incluing a number of times in the archives...I checked) and that is ok, but the mention of GPA causes an uproar. It starts adding up. Again it might be coincidence, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck a lot of people are going to think it's a duck.

I also find the MP issue to be incredibly hypocritical. I thought so before when you can buy bondage and fetish gear and genitals (none of which I have a problem with personally, btw.) which if used for an image posted here would be a violation of the TOS, but when I found an item that specifically says it has no thumbnail because the item in question violates the TOS that put me over the edge. If the item is so "bad" you can't even post a preview of it what are they doing allowing it to be sold in the MP? That is the ultimate in hypocrasy!

Towal

OK. This is a HUGE secret, but I am going to spill the beans anyway. Here goes. The whole thing here at R'osity is being caused by the control of the BUSH administation. That is the association with Berlin 1938. That is all I can say now!

Towal...I pointed Spike to a picture that clearly had hand placement on the other persons rear...was told it was ok to show it. that it was not a violation of the TOS. two woman. sorry but that is BS. it clearly states in the TOS It is not allowed. much less the vague implied sexual situation deal that most definatly was a violation of TOS. again two woman it was ok. not a trick of the lights..not a trick of shadow clearly in your face touching. But that is ok. see you can buy the bondage gear and fetish gear and the genitals..here...but you cant use them here. do you know why? because when you have to use them off site...guess what happens. someone will see it...like it...ask you were you got it..and guess what? that is right you have to say you got it at renderosity and BOOM WAM a new person is here in renderosity. THAT is why. it is free advertisment for rendo. Sorry but after the deal yesterday and the answer from Spike.....to me it is clear that they have no interest in dealing fairly or even consistantly with the TOS.they use it at will like a weapon. with no thought at all to consistancy or for that matter keeping to their very own TOS.

Ah..that is a good point about the marketing. I had not thought of that. Ok well I will just not use any items purchased at Rosity on images I post other than here and then I don't have to credit them. I am not buying anything from the MP anymore for a while anyway for several reasons. People will either get it or the won't...I'm starting to lean to won't unfortunately. I will give it a while and see what happens, because I like it here and I like the people here, but if things continue as they are now then I will simply take down my gallery and move to another site that applies their TOS evenly. Towal

I hope they settle this anti-gay prejudice issue. Add this to the copyright issues; one more fiasco and it could be the straw that broke the camel's back. And I'm glad compiler is rejecting anti-semitism and is constantly monitoring the French media for any reports of anti-Jew violence in France, because that's exactly what is needed: eternal vigilance to prevent a recurrence of the horrors inflicted on the Jews by Europeans in the years prior to WWII.

Thi is utterly off-topic, but one should not forget that the Holocust was not merely a Jewish phenomenon. Certainly because every film or documentary that comes out about it focuses on Jewish suffering, most people don't actively recall that one half of the world's Gypsy population was destroyed as well. They were the people who were forced by the Nazis to build the camps the Germans marched the Jews into, and they were slaughtered shortly thereafter. And there IS continuing Gypsy oppression that continues throughout Europe, even in what one would assume would be civilized countries. Their land is taken, they are discriminated against and murdered. But because they aren't prominent in the media, no one takes much notice. As a matter of fact, the one sure way of recognizing that trouble is brewing in a country is to watch how it treats its Gypsies. They are usually the first to go, since they are considered disposable. Mike

Yes the Gypsies suffer heavily, especially in the previous communist block where they suffer open discrimination and much rebuffing. In more western countries (such as France, alas), they are met with bias and suspicion and people are quick to blame them for petty thefts. They are often refused the right to have a camping site by certain mayors (under pressure from the population), to the point that a law had to be passed 2 years ago to make sure that they'll have camp site in every area. Back to WWII : a german scientific team "expertised" the genetic pool of the gypsies during WWII and recomended that they'd all be sterilised, but not killed in the death camps. How kindhearted... Gay people were also persecuted by nazi authorities in some countries, a sizeable number being put in concentration camps, but not in death camps (at least not as systematically as Jews were). Jews were systematically killed, according to a cold plan that used every standard of the industry to make it efficient. Only then it was the death of people which was the final product, thus the horror that it brings when you think of it.

it was not just jews and gay and gypsies. the ill and infirmed also suffered those that were deemed unfit due to mental retardation or termed insane...those that had physical ailments that made them "unproductive citizens} and also things like that didnt just happen in germany my mother grew up in that time...and she remembers Francos spain. To discriminate due to sexuality, religion, race, color of skin...what ever is just wrong. and to do so, short changes everyone as you miss so much valuable history and depth of culture and beauty. people are making a joke out of thise protest..but if you have even been discrimated against to the point of injury you know it is not funny it is not a joke.

at the same time(1920 and 30's) it was happening here in the states too- they(the goverment) were sterilizing the mentally ill and criminals